From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:25:51 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Some intersting quotaions from Original theosophical sources Message-ID: <002901bda3ad$1d7330c0$03e78ccc@nwc.net> June 29th Dallas offers a few more quotes for consideration: >From HPB on the T S : "...the Theosophical Society...It is a brotherhood of humanity, established to make away with all and every dogmatic religion founded on dead-letter interpretation, and to teach people and every member to believe but in one impersonal God; to rely upon his (man's) own powers; to consider himself his only saviour; to learn the infinitude of the occult psychological powers hidden within his own physical man; to develop these powers; and to give him the assurance of the immortality of his divine spirit and the survival of his soul; to make him regard every man of whatever race, color, or creed [as a brother], and to prove to him that the only truths revealed to man by superior men (not a god) are contained in the Vedas of the ancient Aryas of India, Finally to demonstrate to him that there never were, will be, nor are, any miracles; that there can be nothing 'supernatural' in this universe, and that on earth, at least, the only god is man himself." "It lies within his powers to become and to continue a god after the death of his physical body. Our society receives nothing the possibility of which it cannot demonstrate at will. We believe in the phenomena but we disbelieve in the constant intervention of 'spirits' to produce such phenomena. We maintain that the embodied spirit has more powers to produce them than a disembodied one. We believe in the existence of spirits, but of many classes, the human spirit being but one class of the any." -- HPB: "She Being Dead, Yet Speaketh" -- PATH, June, July, August 1892. (ULT HPB Articles I, pp. 116-7) HPB on "loyalty" : "H.P.B.is loyal to the death to the Theosophical CAUSE, and to those great Teachers whose philosophy can alone bind the whole of Humanity into one Brotherhood.....Therefore the degree of her sympathies with the "Theosophical Society and Adyar" depends upon the degree of the loyalty of that Society to the CAUSE. Let it break away from the original lines and show disloyalty in its policy to the CAUSE and the original programme of the Society, and H.P.B., calling the T.S. disloyal, will shake it off like the dust from her feet..... There is no longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an aggregate body of Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the States of America, and all under one head President, who, together with H.P.Blavatsky will champion the CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real state of things.....Madame Blavatsky does not owe the slightest allegiance to a Council which is liable at any moment to issue silly and untheosophical ukases.....It is the two Founders and especially the President, who have virtually sworn allegiance to the Fellows, whom they have to protect, and teach those who want to be taught, and not to tyrannize and rule over them." -- HPB "A Puzzle from Adyar." LUCIFER, Aug. 1889 (ULT --- HPB Articles, Vol. 1, pp. 219-220) "I never gave myself out for a full-blown occultist, but only for a student of Occultism for the last 35 or 40 years. Yet I am enough of an occultist to know that before we find the Master within our own heart and seventh principle--we need an outside Master....I got my drop from my Master (the living one); you, because you went to *****. He is a Saviour, he who leads you to finding the Master within yourself. It is ten years already that I preach the inner Master and God and never represented our Masters as Saviours in the Christian sense." -- HPB Letters quoted in PATH, Vol. X, p. 367 "...[ the Brothers are everywhere ] ...silent, secret, retiring, and who would never divulge themselves entirely to anyone, unless one did as I did--passed 7 and 10 years probation and given proofs of absolute devotion, and that he, or she, would keep silent even before a prospect and a threat of death. I fulfilled the requirements and am what I am, and this.....no one can take away from me." --- HPB ( Letter on Masters, and the early days of the TS in America and India. PATH Vol. X, pp 370-1 ) Offered in the hope of evoking thought and discussion Dallas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:18:22 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Plea for help Message-ID: Dear lists, I recently sent out, in desperation, a plea for help to four "theos" lists. Apart from a few existing friends - two of whom didn't even ask about the circumstances - I had ONE, repeat ONE response from a caring, if poor subscriber, who was brotherly and sympathetic, which counts for a lot, and is the true spirit of the theosophical ideal. WHAT PRICE THE FIRST OBJECT? As is said in some parts of the UK of people who talk but do not act or respond, "He is all mouth and trousers." I am seriously reviewing my position. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:09:44 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Some intersting quotaions from Original theosophical sources Message-ID: W. Dallas TenBroeck writes >June 29th > >Dallas offers a few more quotes for consideration: > > >>From HPB on the T S : > >"...the Theosophical Society...It is a brotherhood of humanity, >established to make away with all and every dogmatic religion >founded on dead-letter interpretation, and to teach people and >every member to believe but in one impersonal God; to rely upon >his (man's) own powers; to consider himself his only saviour; >to learn the infinitude of the occult psychological powers hidden >within his own physical man; to develop these powers; and to >give him the assurance of the immortality of his divine spirit >and the survival of his soul; That may have been her intention. It hasn't happened, and HPB herself has become a source of dead-letter interpretation. > to make him regard every man of >whatever race, color, or creed [as a brother], and to prove to >him that the only truths revealed to man by superior men (not a >god) are contained in the Vedas of the ancient Aryas of India, Such truths are contained there, but were never *confined* there. >Finally to demonstrate to him that there never were, will be, nor >are, any miracles; that there can be nothing 'supernatural' in >this universe, and that on earth, at least, the only god is man >himself." We are still waiting for the demo ..... and what arrogance to suggest that the only god is "man himself". How the hell can anyone *know* that! > >"It lies within his powers to become and to continue a god after >the death of his physical body. Our society receives nothing the >possibility of which it cannot demonstrate at will. We believe >in the phenomena but we disbelieve in the constant intervention >of 'spirits' to produce such phenomena. We maintain that the >embodied spirit has more powers to produce them than a >disembodied one. We believe in the existence of spirits, but of >many classes, the human spirit being but one class of the >any." -- HPB: "She Being Dead, Yet Speaketh" -- PATH, June, >July, August 1892. >(ULT HPB Articles I, pp. 116-7) "We maintain?" upon what evidence? Like real life experience, not, "It is written ...." > >HPB on "loyalty" : > >"H.P.B.is loyal to the death to the Theosophical CAUSE, and to >those great Teachers whose philosophy can alone bind the whole of >Humanity into one Brotherhood.....Therefore the degree of her >sympathies with the "Theosophical Society and Adyar" depends upon >the degree of the loyalty of that Society to the CAUSE. Let it >break away from the original lines and show disloyalty in its >policy to the CAUSE and the original programme of the Society, >and H.P.B., calling the T.S. disloyal, will shake it off like the >dust from her feet..... I suspect she did this a long while back. >There is no longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and >replaced by an aggregate body of Theosophical Societies, all >autonomous, as are the States of America, and all under one head >President, who, together with H.P.Blavatsky will champion the >CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real state of >things.....Madame Blavatsky does not owe the slightest allegiance >to a Council which is liable at any moment to issue silly and >untheosophical ukases.....It is the two Founders and especially >the President, who have virtually sworn allegiance to the >Fellows, whom they have to protect, and teach those who want to >be taught, and not to tyrannize and rule over them." -- HPB "A >Puzzle from Adyar." LUCIFER, Aug. 1889 >(ULT --- HPB Articles, Vol. 1, pp. 219-220) A sad and forlorn hope which has yet to become anywhere near a reality. > >"...[ the Brothers are everywhere ] ...silent, secret, retiring, >and who would never divulge themselves entirely to anyone, True, perhaps, not "brothers" but "colleagues, readily available to anyone who can reach them. > unless >one did as I did--passed 7 and 10 years probation and given >proofs of absolute devotion, and that he, or she, would keep >silent even before a prospect and a threat of death. I fulfilled >the requirements and am what I am, and this.....no one can take >away from me." --- HPB If asked for proofs of devotion - run like hell. Only those who would control us ask for this kind of thing. The Truth of which there is no religion higher is free for all who seek it. No strings. >( Letter on Masters, and the early days of the TS in America and >India. PATH Vol. X, pp 370-1 ) > >Offered in the hope of evoking thought and discussion With success. --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:51:44 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Plea for help Message-ID: <359852C0.E066B07B@sprynet.com> Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > > Dear lists, > > I recently sent out, in desperation, a plea for help to four "theos" lists. > > Apart from a few existing friends - two of whom didn't even ask about > the circumstances - I had ONE, repeat ONE response from a caring, if > poor subscriber, who was brotherly and sympathetic, which counts for > a lot, and is the true spirit of the theosophical ideal. In general, I go through my email very quickly, and figured that I must have missed your request. I just looked through all the messages with you as the sender for the last 3 weeks, and I could not find hide nor hair of your request for help. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:58:34 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Olcott's Letter to H____ X_____ Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980629225834.0086f580@mail.eden.com> The following letter is of historical interest to those interested in the early days of TS. Of interest is to note that when Olcott was given the opportunity to lead TS, he was a "man" of the world -- cigar smoking, meat eating etc. -- but a person of great integrity. There were 10s of 1000s of vegetarians, leading a very saintly life and it should come as a surprise that he was chosen. Also this letter contains an account of a visit by an Adept. mkr ================================ No. 3. ( Letter from Col. Olcott to Mr. H.___X_____) . COLOMBO, CEYLON, 30th September, 1881. DEAR MR. X., The enclosed card, to the Spiritualist, I had written and put under cover to as early as the 27th instant-post-dating, so as to correspond with the P. and 0. mail day and meant it to go straight to London by this post But on the night of that day I was awakened from sleep by my Chohan (or Guru, the Brother whose immediate pupil I am) and ordered to send it via Simla, so that you might read it. He said that it would serve a useful purpose in helping to settle your mind about the objective reality of the Brothers, as you had confidence in my veracity, and, next to seeing them yourself, would as soon take my word as any other man's to the fact. I have to ask the favor, therefore, of your sending the letter on by the next succeeding post, re-addressed to ______. I can well understand the difficulty of your position far better I think than H. P. B., who, woman. like, hates to reason. I have only to go back to the point where I was in 1874, when I first met her, to feel what you require to satisfy you. And so going back, I know that, as I would never have taken anybody's evidence to so astounding a claim. as the existence of the Brothers, but required personal experience before I would head- the new movement, so must you, a person far more cautious and able than myself, feel now. I got that proof in due time; but for months I was being gradually led out of my spiritualistic Fool's Paradise, and forced to abandon my delusions one by one. My mind was not prepared to give up ideas that had been the growth of 22 years' experiences with mediums and circles. I had a hundred questions to ask and difficulties to be solved. It was not until a full year had passed by that I had dug out of the bed-rock of common sense the Rosetta stone that showed me how to read the riddle of direct intercourse with the Brothers. Until then I had been provoked and exasperated by the--as I thought--selfish and cruel indifference of H. P. B. to my yearnings after the truth, and the {allure of the Brothers to come and instruct me. But now it was all made clear. I had got just as much as I deserved, for I had been ignorantly looking for extraneous help to achieve that which no man ever did achieve except by his own self-development. So as the sweetness of common life had all gone out from me, as I was neither hungry for fame nor money, nor love, and as the gaining of this knowledge and the doing good to my fellowmen appeared the highest of all aims to which I could devote my remaining years of life, I adopted those habits and encouraged those thoughts that were conducive to the attainment of my ends. After that I had all the proofs I needed, alike of the existence of the Brothers, their wisdom, their psychical powers, and their unselfish devotion to humanity. For six years have I been blessed with this experience, and I am telling you the exact truth in saying that all this time I have known perfect happiness. It has seemed to you "the saddest thing of all" to see me giving up the world and everything that makes the happiness of those living in the world; and yet, after all these years, not only not made an adept, but hardly having achieved one step towards adeptship. These were your words to me and others last year; but if you will only reflect for one moment what it is to transform a worldly man, such as I was in 1874-- a man of clubs, drinking parties, mistresses, a man absorbed in all sorts of worldly public and private undertakings and speculations -- into that purest, wisest, noblest and most spiritual of human beings, a BROTHER, you will cease to wonder, or rather you will wonder, how I could ever have struggled out of the swamp at all, and how I could have ever succeeded in gaining the firm straight road. No one knows, until he really tries it, how awful a task it is to subdue all his evil passions and animal instincts, and develop his higher nature. Talk of conquering intemperance or a habit of opium-eating -- this self-conquest is a far harder task. I have seen, been taught by, been allowed to visit, and have received visits from the Brothers; but there have been periods when, relapsing into a lower moral state (interiorly) as the result of most-unfavourable external conditions, I have for long neither seen them nor received a line from them. From time to time one or another Brother who had been on friendly terms with me (I am acquainted with about a dozen in all) has become disgusted with me and left me to others, who kindly took their places. Most of all, I regret a certain Magyar philosopher, who had begun to give me a course of instruction in occult dynamics, but was repelled by an outbreak of my old earthly nature. But I shall win him back and the others also, for I have so determined; and whatever a man really WILLS, that he has. No power in the universe, but one, can prevent our seeing whomsoever we will, or knowing whatsoever we desire, and that power is--SELF! Throughout my studies l have tried to obtain my proofs in a valid form. I have known mesmerism for a quarter of a century or more, and make every allowance for self-deception and external mental impressions. What I have seen and experienced is, therefore, very satisfactory to myself, though mainly valueless to others. Let me give you one instance: One evening, at New York, after bidding H. P. B. good night, I sat in my bed-room, finishing a cigar and thinking. Suddenly there stood my Chohan beside me. The door had made no noise in opening, if it had been opened, but at any rate there he was. He sat down and conversed with me in subdued tones for some time, and as he seemed in an excellent humor towards me, I asked him a favor. I said I wanted some tangible proof that he had actually been there, and that I had not been seeing a mere illusion or maya conjured up by H. P. B. He laughed, unwound the embroidered Indian cotton fehta he wore on his head, flung it to me, and--was gone. That cloth I still possess, and it bears in one corner the initials (***) of my Chohan in thread-work. This at least was no hallucination, and so of several other instances I might relate. This same Brother once visited me in the flesh at Bombay, coming in full day-light, and on horse. back. He had me called by a servant into the front room of H. P. B.'s bungalow [she being at the time in the other bungalow talking with those who were there]. He came to scold me roundly for something I had done in T. S. matters, and as H. B. P. was also to blame, he telegraphed to her to come; that is to say, he turned his face and extended his finger in the direction of the place she was in. She came over at once with a rush, and, seeing him, dropped on her knees and paid him reverence. My voice and his had been - heard by those in the other bungalow, but only H. P. B. and I, and the servant, saw him. Another time, two, if not three, persons, sitting in the verandah of my bangalow in the Girgaum compound, saw a Hindu gentleman ride in, dismount under H. P. B.'s portico, and enter her study. They called me, and I went and watched the horse until the visitor came out, remounted and rode off, That also was a Brother, in flesh and bones; but what proof is there of it to offer even to a friend like yourself ? There are many Hindus and many horses. You will find in an odd number of the N. Y. World a long account of a reporter's experiences at our headquarters in 47th Street. Among the marvels witnessed, by the eight or ten persons present, was the apparition of a Brother who passed by the window and returned. The room was or. the second storey of the house, and there was no balcony to walk on. But this, it may be said, was all an illusion; that is the trouble of the whole matter; everything of the kind seen by one person is a delusion, if not a lie, to those who did not see it. Each must see for himself, and can alone convince himself. Feeling this, while obeying my Chohan, as I try to do in little as well as great things, and sending you these writings, I do so in the hope, though by no means in the certainty, that your present reliance on my veracity will survive their perusal. I have never, I should mention, kept a diary of my experiences with the Brothers or even of the phenomena I witnessed in connexion with them. There were two reasons for this--first, I have been taught to maintain the closest secrecy in regard to all I saw and heard, except when specially authorised to speak about any particular thing; second, never expecting to be allowed to publish my experiences, I have felt that the less I put on paper the safer. You may possibly glean, if not from personal observation, at any rate from the printed record of my American services of one kind or another, that I am not the sort of man to give up everything come out as I did, and keep working on as I have done, without having obtained a superabundance of good proofs of the truth of the cause in which I am embarked. And you may possibly say to yourself: "Why should not I, who am more capable of doing good to this cause than a dozen Olcotts, be also favored with proofs ? " The answer you must seek from another quarter; but if any experience is worth anything, I should say that answer would be in substance that, however great a man may be at this side of the Himalayas, he begins his relationship with the Brothers on exactly the same terms as the humblest Chela who ever tried to scale their Parnassus; be must. "win his way." If you only know how often, within my time even, a deaf ear has been turned to the importunities, both of influential outsiders professing readiness to do everything in the way of personal exertion and liberal gifts, and of our own Fellows, who pretended to be ready to sacrifice the world if the Brothers would only come to them and teach them, you would perhaps be less surprised at their failure to visit you. Events have always proved their wisdom, and so it will be in your case, I fancy; for, if you do see them, as I hope and trust you may, it will be because you have earned the right to command their presence. The phenomena they have done have all had a purpose, and good has eventually come even from those which brought down upon us for the moment the greatest contumely. As for my mistakes of judgment and H. P. B.'s occasional tomfooleries, that is a different affair, and the debits are charged to our respective accounts, My teachers have always told me that the danger of giving the world complete assurance of their existence is so great, by reason of the low spiritual tone of society, and the ruthless selfishness with which it would seek to drag them, from their seclusion, that it is better to tell only so much as will excite the curiosity and stimulate the zeal of the worthy minority of metaphysical students. If they can keep just enough oil in the lamp to feed the flame it is all that is required. I do not know whether or not there is any significance (*) in the fact of my Chohan's visiting me on the night of the 27th, but you may. He made me rise, sit at my table and write from his dictation (+) for an hour or more. There was an expression of anxiety mingled with sternness on his noble face, as there always is when the matter concerns H. P. B., to whom for many years he has been at once a father and a devoted guardian. How I do hope you may see him ! You would confess, I am sure, that he was the finest possible type of man. I have also personally known--since 1875. He is of quite a different, a gentler, type, yet the bosom friend of the other. They live near each other with a small Buddhist Temple about midway between their houses. In New York I had ________'s portrait; my Chohan's; that of another Brother, a Southern Indian Prince; and a colored sketch on China silk; of the landscape near ____'s and my Chohan's residences with a glimpse of the latter's house and of part of the little temple. But the portraits of _________ and the Prince disappeared form the frames one night just before I left for India. I had still another picture, that remarkable portrait of a Yogi about which so much was said in the papers. It too disappeared in New York, but one evening tumbled down through the air before our very eyes, as H. P. B., Damodar and I were conversing in my office at Bombay with (if I remember aright) the Dewan Sankariah of Cochin. You and I will never see Jesus in the flesh, but if you should ever meet----, or one or two others whom I might mention, I think you will say that they are near enough our ideal "to satisfy one's longing for the tree of humanity to put forth such a flower." I am ordered to say that you may use this letter as your judgment may dictate after noting carefully its contents. With sincere regards and best wishes, Yours, H. S. Olcott [*** A particular monogram which cannot he reproduced in type --Tibetan I believe--which this Brother always uses.--H. X.] [+ The communication, thus dictated and transmitted as an enclosure of this letter, is not printed, as it is of a purely private character. But I am bound to say that, to my mind, it embodied a complete misconception as to some points of the position discussed.--H. X.] ( * There was this significance that, on the afternoon of the 27th, I, at Simla, had been disputing with Madame Blavatsky, then living in my house, as to whether the Brothers were not a myth and she a self-deluded person, and in the course of the conversation I had remarked that I had never heard Colonel Olcott say that he had seen or conversed with a Brother. That Colonel Olcott, then in Ceylon, should have selected that very night to sit down and write to me a communication professedly from a Brother, rebuking me for my incredulity, and should farther have added this letter above printed, testifying to his own constant direct intercourse with the Brothers is, to say the least, a curious coincidence.--H.X.) ### The following are extracts from some of the papers referring to this remarkable picture.--H. X. CITY AND COUNTY OF New York, ss. William Q Judge, being duly sworn, says that he is an attorney end councillor-at-law, practicing at the Bar of the State of New York; that he was present at the house of Madame H. P. Blavatsky, at No. 302, West 47th Street, New York City, on one occasion in the month of December 1877, when a discussion was being held upon the subject of Eastern Magic, especially upon the power of an adept to produce phenomenon by an exercise of the will, equalling or surpassing those of mediumship. To illustrate the subject, as she had often done indeponent's presence previously by other experiments, Madame Blavatsky, without preparation, and in full light, and in the presence and sight of deponent, Col. Olcott, and Dr. L. M. Marquette, tore a sheet of common writing paper in two and asked us the subject we would hays represented. Deponent named the portrait of a certain very holy men in India. Thereupon laying the paper upon the table Madame Blavatskv placed the palm of her hand upon it, and after rubbing the paper a few times (occupying less than a minute) with a circular motion, lifted her hand and gave deponent the paper for inspection. Upon the previously white surface there was a most remarkable and striking picture of an Indian Fakir, represent- him as if in contemplation. Deponent has frequently seen it since, and it is now in possession of Col. Olcott. Deponent positively avers that the blank paper first taken was the paper on which the picture appeared, and that no substitution of another paper was made or was possible. William Q. Judge. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 20tb day of March, 1878. Samuel Y. Speyer Notary Public, New York County . From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:11:14 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: 109 Message-ID: THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL welcomes Dan Neether! Dan lives in Washington State and is a members of the TS as well as TI. Personal welcomes to dneether@gte.net Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:27:37 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Maitreya Information from TS Message-ID: <347031a2.3591dfcb@aol.com> In a message dated 98-06-24 20:54:44 EDT, you write: >SUBJECT: Maitreya Information from TS >There's been alot of stuff that I have seen on the web about Maitreya's >supposed appearance and this Benjamin Creme fella... >I haven't given it any real thought to the legitimacy of it as yet? I >am curious what has came out of any ruling (lack of a better phrase) >from the Theosophical Society however???? >There's No pushing this one off boys and girls!!! >Also, I am also interested in personal opinions??? >If anyone knows of any such formal Theosophical Society's stance or has >an opinion on this >matter... The TS has no official position on anything as a matter of policy, but the general consensus is that Creme is a crook, his Maitreya a fraud and the followers thereof total idiots. Now that doesn't mean that somewhere in the the society there are not a few people who take this crap seriously because we have people who believe in a lot more than two ridiculous things at the same time. But I have never heard of Creme and his false Maitreya (who apparently dwells in the sewers of London and miraculously appears to soccer fans just after they riot) spoken of by anyone in the TS except in the strongest terms of derision and ridicule. Which both richly deserve. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:12:04 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1569 Message-ID: <006d01bda03f$c56730e0$03e78ccc@nwc.net> Dear Dan: On page 202 of H P Blavatsky's THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, you will find a condensed version of what the Maitreya Buddha is supposed to be doing about 3,000 years from now when: "Esoteric philosophy teaches that the next Buddha will appear during the seventh (sub) race of this Round." "Exoteric or popular teaching [among Buddhists] states that Sakyamuni (Gautama Buddha) visited him in Tushita (a celestial abode) and commissioned him to issue thence on earth as his successor at the expiration of 5,000 years after his (Buddha's) death." Numerous opinions have arisen since HPB's death about the appearance of Maitreya Buddha and his supposed work. One of the best references is in SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. 1,m p. 470 (bottom of the page). See also SD I 378, 384. It is quite apparent that His appearance and work will be quite a while in the future. In the meantime we have much to do with what we already have to learn and practice. Best wishes, Dallas PS: Also consider : One of the 7 "principles" of man is "Buddhi-Wisdom." It is a universal principle as Wisdom is no one's property. And therefore it is present in us, as the One spirit is also present in Us as our root base for existence. To contact it with our mind is the problem. Since it is universal and impersonal the mind we use and direct has to be impersonalized, universalized, and made porous to the wisdom that we already possess in our "Higher Self." D. >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:10:22 -0700 >From: DAN >To: theos-l@vnet.net >Subject: Maitreya Information from TS >Message-ID: <3591956E.397D@gte.net> > >SUBJECT: Maitreya Information from TS >There's been alot of stuff that I have seen on the web about Maitreya's >supposed appearance and this Benjamin Creme fella... >I haven't given it any real thought to the legitimacy of it as yet? I >am curious what has came out of any ruling (lack of a better phrase) >from the Theosophical Society however???? >There's No pushing this one off boys and girls!!! >Also, I am also interested in personal opinions??? >If anyone knows of any such formal Theosophical Society's stance or has >an opinion on this >matter... please e-mail me at: >dneether@gte.net > >Thanks >Dan From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:35:29 -0400 From: John E Mead Subject: Re: Maitreya Information from TS Message-ID: <01IYNTSTFUU49GVYYR@InfoAve.Net> > supposed appearance and this Benjamin Creme fella... > I haven't given it any real thought to the legitimacy of it as yet? I > am curious what has came out of any ruling (lack of a better phrase) > from the Theosophical Society however???? > There's No pushing this one off boys and girls!!! > Also, I am also interested in personal opinions??? > If anyone knows of any such formal Theosophical Society's stance or has > an opinion on this I thought B. Creme was 'dismissed' by most everyone years ago (like in the 80's). His predictions fell flat (last ones I heard about... ). I thouht his Maitreya had died of old age by now :-) The TS (as an institution) does not pass judgement on outsiders (you have to join the Org to get judged :-). peace - john e. mead From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:22:27 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Maitreya Information from TS Message-ID: <$JFy5xADnuk1EwLQ@nellie2.demon.co.uk> John E Mead writes >The TS (as an institution) does not pass judgement on outsiders >(you have to join the Org to get judged :-). Naughty, naughty John! Alan :0) --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:10:22 -0700 From: DAN Subject: Maitreya Information from TS Message-ID: <3591956E.397D@gte.net> SUBJECT: Maitreya Information from TS There's been alot of stuff that I have seen on the web about Maitreya's supposed appearance and this Benjamin Creme fella... I haven't given it any real thought to the legitimacy of it as yet? I am curious what has came out of any ruling (lack of a better phrase) from the Theosophical Society however???? There's No pushing this one off boys and girls!!! Also, I am also interested in personal opinions??? If anyone knows of any such formal Theosophical Society's stance or has an opinion on this matter... please e-mail me at: dneether@gte.net Thanks Dan From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:24:56 -0400 From: John E Mead Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1567 Message-ID: <01IYKM4VZ5SI9BXEBD@InfoAve.Net> > Subject: stress reduction > Chuck the Heretic > > Picture yourself near a stream. > snip >> I paid $350, gave flowers and fruit,... just for what you have now released (for FREE!) to the uninitiated!! question... If you keep seeing your own face under the water, does that mean your meditation is not (or maybe *is*) 'proper' ?? peace - john e. mead From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:55:30 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1567 Message-ID: In a message dated 98-06-23 10:23:26 EDT, you write: >question... If you keep seeing your own face under the water, >does that mean your meditation is not (or maybe *is*) 'proper' ?? > >peace - > >john e. mead > > It means you should start wearing a diving suit and avoid anything deeper than a bathtub. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:52:45 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Theosophist? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980623215245.00696714@mail.eden.com> While I do not like to blindly quote anyone, in the light of the various discussions on Theosophy, here is something which seems to dispel any wrong ideas. Men (and women and children) cannot all be Occultists but they can all be Theosophists. Many who have never heard of the Society are Theosophists without knowing it themselves; for the essence of Theosophy is the perfect harmonizing of the divine with the human in man, the adjustment of his god-like qualities and aspirations, and their sway over the terrestial and animal passions in him. Kindness, absence of every ill feeling or selfishness, charity, goodwill to all beings, and perfect justice to others as to oneself, are its chief features. He who teaches Theosophy preaches the gospel of goodwill; and the converse of this is true also -- he who preaches the gospel of goodwill, teaches Theosophy. ---HPB - Address to the American Convention 4/22/1988 Excerpted from Fohat, Summer 1998 MKR Comments: What is significant is the absence of any mention of the details of the constitution of man and universe and all the "technical" and "philosophical" material that she provided. So if there is anyone who has does not meditate (using whatever technique or none), who has not read SD or Voice of Silence or any other classic he/she can be a Theosophist in its fullest term whether they know it or not. It is the total attention to the the information contained in the classics in the absence of the above "practical" deeds in many tend to mis-present Theosophy. So Theosophy is not limited to the intellectuals only and is for the masses, who may be unread and ignorant. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:16:36 -0700 From: Mark Kusek Subject: Sorry, couldn't resist Message-ID: <358E9174.5623@withoutwalls.com> Saw this on another list ... Actual responses given by children in Bible School classes around the country: 1. The first book of the Bible is Guinessis in which Adam and Eve were created from an apple. 2. Noah's wife was called Joan of Ark. 3. Lot's wife was a pillar of salt by day and a ball of fire by night. 4. Unleavened bread is bread with no ingredients. 5. Moses went to the top of Mt. Cyanide to get the Ten Commandments. 6. The Seventh Commandment is: Thou shalt not admit adultery 7. Joshua led the Hebrews in the battle of Geritol. 8. Soloman had 300 wives and more than 700 porcupines. 9. Jesus was born because Mary had an immaculate contraption. 10. The people who followed Jesus were called the 12 decibels. 11. One of the oppossums was St Matthew. 12. The epistles were the wives of the apostles. 13. Paul preached acromony which is another name for marriage. 14. The Jews had trouble throughout their history with unsympathetic Genitals. 15. David faught the Finkelsteins, a race of people who lived in bibical times. 16. A Christian should have only one wife, which is called monotony. Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:17:04 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Sorry, couldn't resist Message-ID: <4d5ef225.358ee5f1@aol.com> In a message dated 98-06-22 14:57:49 EDT, you write: >16. A Christian should have only one wife, which is called monotony. > > A big AMEN to the monotony part! Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:40:20 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: stress reduction Message-ID: As we approach convention, with all the sturm and drang that is going to be associated with it (to say nothing of the bad food and the idiocy about the labyrinth), I figured you could all use a nice excercise to help reduce the stress that will undoubtedly be associated with it. A friend sent me this. Have fun Chuck the Heretic Picture yourself near a stream. Birds are softly chirping in the crisp cool mountain air. Nothing can bother you here. No one knows this secret place. You are in total seclusion from that place called "the world." The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall fills the air with a cascade of serenity. The water is clear. You can easily make out the face of the person whose head you're holding under the water. Look. It's the person who caused you all this stress in the first place. What a pleasant surprise. You let them up... just for a quick breath... then ploop!...back under they go... You allow yourself as many deep breaths as you want. There now... feeling better? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:17:39 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Internet in Colleges Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980623001739.00998510@mail.eden.com> I have always felt that extensive use of Internet including such applications as www, e-mail, maillists, newsgroups, chat etc. is going to take off when the current generation of students graduate from schools and colleges. When I was looking into the computer and related facilities provided in colleges, it is very revealing where technology is heading. In the University of Texas at Austin, here are some facts: 1. There are more computers than telephones in the campus. About 26000 computers. 2. Every room in the dorm has an ethernet connection. 10 MB/sec and going to 100 MB/sec. with full Internet access. 3. Every student is assigned a e-mail account as soon as admitted. 4. Any student can set up a website. 5. Any student can set up a maillist. 6. Graduate Business School students are required to purchase a notebook computer when they start school. 7. Libraries have ethernet outlets so that you can connect your computer from a carrel. Like plugging a toaster into power outlet. and Much more..... In the next century, the impact of Internet is going to be like what happened when printing was invented. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:05:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Cain Subject: Re: significance of the number 108.. Message-ID: <199806211105.HAA25502@katie.vnet.net> 108 x 4 times a day = 432 x 100 = 43200 the number of pules of the heart of a man at rest in 12 hr. mulandhara =4 Svadhisthana = 6 Manipura = 10 Anahata = 12 Visuddha =16 Ajna = 2 Sahasrara = 50 ( 50 inside the head an 50 outstde the head ) total = 100 Thus 108 x 4 x 100 = the measure of man From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:37:11 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Vegetarian diet for children Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980621193711.00983370@mail.eden.com> For those who may have some misgivings about children brought up as vegetarians, here is what Dr. Spock says. For those who grew up in India, where a majority are lacto vegetarians, there is no doubt that meat, sea food and poultry is not necessary for a healthy body. mkr ==================================== NEW YORK (CNN) -- In death even as in life, Dr. Benjamin Spock's pronouncements on raising children are sparking sharp debate. In the newly updated edition of the noted pediatrician's landmark book, "Baby and Child Care," Spock, who died in March, advocates a vegetarian diet for children and urges parents not to give them milk or other dairy products after the age of 2. But some nutritionists and pediatricians -- including Spock's own co-author -- disagree with his recommendations. Noted child expert Dr. T. Berry Brazelton, a friend of Spock, went so far as to call them "absolutely insane" in an interview with The New York Times. "Meat is an excellent source of the iron and protein children need, and to take away milk from children, I think that's really dangerous. Milk is needed for calcium and vitamin D," Brazelton said. The call for no meat or dairy products for children marks a change for "Baby and Child Care," which was first published in 1946 and has sold more copies in the United States than any book except the Bible. In the first six editions of the book, Spock consistently recommended meat and dairy products for children. 'A tremendous health advantage' But in 1991, Spock himself embraced vegetarianism at the age of 88, lost 50 pounds and conquered chronic bronchitis. And in the latest edition, he urges parents to start children on the vegetarian road early in life because "when children develop a taste for meats, it is hard to break this habit later on." "Children who grow up getting nutrition from plant foods rather than meats have a tremendous health advantage. They are less likely to develop weight problems, diabetes, high blood pressure and some forms of cancer," writes Spock. He also advised that growing kids can get the calcium they need from leafy green vegetables, soy milk and beans, rather than from cow's milk and dairy products, which he says are too high in fat and can aggravate conditions such as asthma and chronic ear infections. Spock's co-author, Dr. Steven J. Parker, who disagreed with the recommendations, told The New York Times that Spock believed a vegetarian diet had "given him a new lease on life" and that he wanted the latest issue of his book to be "in the forefront" of linking animal-based foods to disease. >From CNN From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:24:59 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: ACT Website Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620112459.011a57a0@mail.eden.com> In an announcement in act-l, JRC informs ACT website's new address: It has newsletters in PDF files and other info. You may want to visit the site. (BTW, the PDF files are big. The zipped PDF files are a little shorter.) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 14:18:15 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theos-World ACT Website Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620141815.006dd920@mail.eden.com> Dear Dallas: Sorry for the confusion. There may be others who also are confused and hence posting this msg to theos-l, theos-talk, theos-news, and ti-l. Here is the info: ACT = Association of Concerned Theosophists, concerned Theosophists trying to bring about reforms in Theosophical Society in America (Adyar). JRC = John R Crocker is the one who put the website together and maintains it. ACT WEBSITE = It is the WWW site of ACT. Please do visit the WWW of ACT and you will find it interesting. ..mkr At 10:17 AM 6/20/98 -0700, you wrote: >June 20th 1998 > >Dear Doss: > >What does this MSG quoted below mean ? Who or what is JRC and >what is ACT WEBSITE ? > >You're way past me. Dal > >Or, is this none of my business ? > >=================================== > >-----Original Message----- >From: M K Ramadoss >To: theos-l@vnet.net ; theos-news@vnet.net >; ti-l@vnet.net ; >theos-talk@theosophy.com >Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 9:43 AM >Subject: Theos-World ACT Website > > >>In an announcement in act-l, JRC informs ACT website's new >address: >> >> >> >>It has newsletters in PDF files and other info. You may want to >visit the >>site. (BTW, the PDF files are big. The zipped PDF files are a >little shorter.) >> >> >> >> > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 18:12:26 -0400 From: Ken Malkin Subject: Re: THEOS-NEWS digest 163 Message-ID: <358C33CA.7900451C@gate.net> Thanks Doss, Jerry took care his end, I on mine. Best as always -K- theos-news@vnet.net wrote: > THEOS-NEWS Digest 163 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Newsletter info > by M K Ramadoss > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 08:55:47 -0500 > From: M K Ramadoss > To: theos-l@vnet.net, ti-l@vnet.net, theos-talk@theosophy.com, > Subject: Newsletter info > Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620085547.01796670@mail.eden.com> > > Here is a msg from act-l which may interest some. > > mkr > > >Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 21:24:40 -0400 (EDT) > >Reply-To: act-l@vnet.net > >Originator: act-l@vnet.net > >Sender: act-l@vnet.net > >From: marcheta@juno.com (Marcheta Henry) > >To: Multiple recipients of list > >Subject: Re: Newsletter 2: Physical Layout > >X-Comment: Association of Concerned Theosopists > > > >I would like a copy of your next Theosophy News letter, please. I live > >in the Mid-west, At Box 5, Weaubleau, Mo. 65774----snail mail address. > >I also publish a Theosophy News lettter "MESSIAH" quarterly, if you'd > >like a copy, I'd be happy to have your snail mail address also. I am > >have indepentent Theosophical Corp. with a page on the Web, and we also > >have weekly classes here. > > > >If any of your group are in this area, we would welcome you to stop by. > > > >Let there be Light always and in all ways. > > > >Marcheta Henry From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 08:55:47 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Newsletter info Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620085547.01796670@mail.eden.com> Here is a msg from act-l which may interest some. mkr >Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 21:24:40 -0400 (EDT) >Reply-To: act-l@vnet.net >Originator: act-l@vnet.net >Sender: act-l@vnet.net >From: marcheta@juno.com (Marcheta Henry) >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Newsletter 2: Physical Layout >X-Comment: Association of Concerned Theosopists > >I would like a copy of your next Theosophy News letter, please. I live >in the Mid-west, At Box 5, Weaubleau, Mo. 65774----snail mail address. >I also publish a Theosophy News lettter "MESSIAH" quarterly, if you'd >like a copy, I'd be happy to have your snail mail address also. I am >have indepentent Theosophical Corp. with a page on the Web, and we also >have weekly classes here. > >If any of your group are in this area, we would welcome you to stop by. > >Let there be Light always and in all ways. > >Marcheta Henry > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 09:01:10 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Spiritual Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620090110.00b07100@mail.eden.com> On TV watched an interview of the couple who got married after the groom advertised and the applicants were interviewed and evaluated by the family and friends and the bride selected. When the newsman asked the newlywed bride what her religious affiliation is, she said she was brought up RC and now she would call herself as "Spiritual". I think this kind of thinking bodes well for the future of Humanity having seen all the problems that organized religions have caused and are causing. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 09:22:24 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Bro. N. Sri Ram Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620092224.00b09ad0@mail.eden.com> Martin Leiderman asked me to write down my observations about N. Sri Ram, late International President and father of Radha Burnier, present International President. I have attended many of his lectures and I have not personally met him. He is one of the lowest keyed individuals I have seen. Very few knew of him outside the close knit active members of TS, until he was elected as President. Any one who has seen him is struck as a very gentle and quiet person. A very good model for any TS leader to follow. He was the personal secretary to Annie Besant and helped her when she published a Newspaper during Indian Independence days. He was known to be a master of english language, even though he majored in Math. During the time of C. Jinarajadasa as President, I heard that CJ always got his important communications reviewed by Sri Ram just to make sure that the communication is precise and no even inadvertantly misunderstood due to the use of a wrong word or sentence. In or or two cases I had personally known of his decisions, they have always been very sound in hindsight. When I attended his lectures, I was a young man and as such found some of the topics he addressed were beyond my comprehension. He was a very open minded person which is shown by his being responsible for many people to be introduced to Krishnaji. Every year, the International Convention at Adyar and Krishnaji's talks across the river from Adyar HQ used to take place in last week of December. The Convention schedule was so arranged so that there was no conflict between its schedule and Krishnaji's talks, so that anyone who wanted to attend the talks could do so without missing any convention activity. Usually everyone at the convention attended Krishnaji's talks. Sri Ram always attended Krishnaji's talks. Sri Ram widely travelled and lectured during his long association with TS. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:18:41 -0400 From: John E Mead Subject: significance of the number 108.. Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980620161841.006a4958@mail.infoave.net> hi - this is a quicky which has several answers. However, I wanted to get a broader cross-section of new ideas (i.e. old ideas I hadn't heard of..). what/where/why etc. is the number 108 so sacred?? How did it come to relate to Mala's (in alot of different traditions no less...). any ideas/stories/relationships would be nice to get. etc.. peace - john e. mead obviously 108 = (0**0)*(1**1)*(2**2)*(3**3) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:14:27 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: significance of the number 108.. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620111427.011a3b40@mail.eden.com> In (Asian) Indian tradition, 108 is a key number. People gift 108 coins, rupees etc. many rituals have 108 as the number of repetitions etc. For some reason, round numbers such as 10, 100, 1000, 10000 etc. are not considered good numbers. mkr At 11:55 AM 6/20/1998 -0400, you wrote: >hi - > >this is a quicky which has several answers. However, I wanted to >get a broader cross-section of new ideas (i.e. old ideas I hadn't >heard of..). > >what/where/why etc. is the number 108 so sacred?? >How did it come to relate to Mala's (in alot of different traditions >no less...). any ideas/stories/relationships would be nice to get. > >etc.. > >peace - john e. mead > >obviously 108 = (0**0)*(1**1)*(2**2)*(3**3) > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:21:53 EDT From: NHORV283@aol.com Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1564 Message-ID: Please take me off your list. Thank you. NHORV283@AOL.COM From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:26:32 EDT From: NHORV283@aol.com Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1563 Message-ID: Please take me off your list. Thanks. NHORV283@aol.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:24:59 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: ACT Website Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620112459.011a57a0@mail.eden.com> In an announcement in act-l, JRC informs ACT website's new address: It has newsletters in PDF files and other info. You may want to visit the site. (BTW, the PDF files are big. The zipped PDF files are a little shorter.) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:43:26 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: significance of the number 108.. Message-ID: <358BE6AE.26C3A70B@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > > In (Asian) Indian tradition, 108 is a key number. People gift 108 coins, > rupees etc. many rituals have 108 as the number of repetitions etc. For > some reason, round numbers such as 10, 100, 1000, 10000 etc. are not > considered good numbers. I don't know how Indian numerology works, but in Hebrew, the word for life, {CH}Y, represents the number 18 (Ches is 8 and Yod is 10), so 18 is considered to be a special number to Jews ((CH)VH, a femnized version of the word for life, was the name given to the first woman, inexplicably transliterated in English as "Eve"). Of course, 6x18 is 108, for whatever good that does... Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 21:42:02 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Unveilers Unveiled Message-ID: <199806201742.VAA00913@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello Paul! > As I stated on another list, I won't debate my books about HPB > publicly any more, since the hypotheses have been in print over 7 > years now and my new book about Cayce is just about to appear. > That's really my main interest now. Oh, poor Cayce! :( But I've heard that he is popular in the USA. > communion with her teachers, and wrote what she believed was > their messages for them, does her misleading description of those > teachers make the whole thing a "humbug"? Consequently it isn't a humbug, it's a self-deceit. "Simplicity is worse than a theft" - russian proverb says. > The world is not such a black and white place in my estimation. When Vsevolod Solovyov wrote his fabulous anti-HPB book "Unveiled priestess of Isis", his brother Vladimir wrote: don't confuse me with my brother Vsevolod, he, not me, had the relations with HPB abd wrote about her some gray book. I didn't understand what he have meant under "gray" but now I guess :) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 21:42:29 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Days of the week Message-ID: <199806201742.VAA00918@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello Martina! > But now I am learning Tibetan and look what makes me astonished: > Tibetans have the same words for Sunday and Monday as we have in > English, German, Italian,... They build one word with Sun and Day and > one word with Moon and Day. But I have never heard about common language > roots with the Asians. I doubt that the tibetans had a 7-day week at all. So maybe they borrowed these names europeans. These names have as it seems the pagan roots. In spite of common roots of Russian & european languages, there's nothing common between russian & english names of the days. For instance, the meaning of these days in Russian and most other slavic languages is the following: mo after rest tu second day we middle day (compare with German "Mittwoch") th fourth day fr fifth day sa sabbath su resurrection The names of the months in the slavic languages were connected with phenomenons of nature which took place in these months and some (i.e. Ukrainians) preserved them till now, but after introduction of chistianity they were changed to roman Jan, Feb... etc. This example with the slavic languages shows that these names may depend most on cultural & religious influences than on language roots. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 14:18:15 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theos-World ACT Website Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620141815.006dd920@mail.eden.com> Dear Dallas: Sorry for the confusion. There may be others who also are confused and hence posting this msg to theos-l, theos-talk, theos-news, and ti-l. Here is the info: ACT = Association of Concerned Theosophists, concerned Theosophists trying to bring about reforms in Theosophical Society in America (Adyar). JRC = John R Crocker is the one who put the website together and maintains it. ACT WEBSITE = It is the WWW site of ACT. Please do visit the WWW of ACT and you will find it interesting. ..mkr At 10:17 AM 6/20/98 -0700, you wrote: >June 20th 1998 > >Dear Doss: > >What does this MSG quoted below mean ? Who or what is JRC and >what is ACT WEBSITE ? > >You're way past me. Dal > >Or, is this none of my business ? > >=================================== > >-----Original Message----- >From: M K Ramadoss >To: theos-l@vnet.net ; theos-news@vnet.net >; ti-l@vnet.net ; >theos-talk@theosophy.com >Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 9:43 AM >Subject: Theos-World ACT Website > > >>In an announcement in act-l, JRC informs ACT website's new >address: >> >> >> >>It has newsletters in PDF files and other info. You may want to >visit the >>site. (BTW, the PDF files are big. The zipped PDF files are a >little shorter.) >> >> >> >> > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 23:12:25 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: significance of the number 108.. Message-ID: Bart Lidofsky writes > I don't know how Indian numerology works, but in Hebrew, the word >for >life, {CH}Y, represents the number 18 (Ches is 8 and Yod is 10), so 18 >is considered to be a special number to Jews ((CH)VH, a femnized version >of the word for life, was the name given to the first woman, >inexplicably transliterated in English as "Eve"). Of course, 6x18 is >108, for whatever good that does... Oh the wonders of Gematria! I have long been very cross at the "Eve" rendering of the Hebrew text - did someone read a CH for a H? Often done! I have once seen it rendered as "Eva" which suggests the possibility. My own personal "prayer" is from the Shema - YHWH ACHD. L'chiim! Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 08:55:47 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Newsletter info Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980620085547.01796670@mail.eden.com> Here is a msg from act-l which may interest some. mkr >Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 21:24:40 -0400 (EDT) >Reply-To: act-l@vnet.net >Originator: act-l@vnet.net >Sender: act-l@vnet.net >From: marcheta@juno.com (Marcheta Henry) >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Newsletter 2: Physical Layout >X-Comment: Association of Concerned Theosopists > >I would like a copy of your next Theosophy News letter, please. I live >in the Mid-west, At Box 5, Weaubleau, Mo. 65774----snail mail address. >I also publish a Theosophy News lettter "MESSIAH" quarterly, if you'd >like a copy, I'd be happy to have your snail mail address also. I am >have indepentent Theosophical Corp. with a page on the Web, and we also >have weekly classes here. > >If any of your group are in this area, we would welcome you to stop by. > >Let there be Light always and in all ways. > >Marcheta Henry From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:44:35 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Message-ID: <008d01bd9b88$ee6fbe00$03e78ccc@nwc.net> June 19th 1998 Dallas offers: Some exerpts from a letter written by a recent Russian emigrant to America to a friend: Dear - - - - , I received your greeting card for my birthday. Thank you for the memory and for sharing with me you view on problems of life in Russia, and for asking questions. I'm going to answer them at the best of my ability. You ask me how I can cope with the death of your (and my) best friend. Three years ago I was not able to console you with anything valuable. It seems to me that today I have something valuable to say. Two and a half years ago my American friend asked me to attend a meeting of one of many small groups of people getting together to study Theosophy. Theosophy gives its students a clear exposition on ethics, science and philosophy. At first it was hard for me to follow the discussions and understand them, because of my English. And the subject was itself too lofty, but I knew on the spot that it would be a part of my life from now on. I knew that I'll get the answers on many questions, which I wanted to be answered since the days of my youth: Who am I ? What am I doing in this world ? Why it happens to me, to my friends ? What is death ? What is intuition ? What is freedom ? The following is an attempt to share with you my understanding of some theosophical ideas. I always wanted to know why Americans say that they are free people. I understand what is freedom of religious beliefs, political freedom, social freedom. But personal freedom is something completely different because nobody gives it to you but yourself. We are all slaves of ourselves because we live in fear to loose what we have, or, not to get what we want. This is true for people who are rich and who are poor, for a prince and for a beggar, for Americans and for Russians. Freedom is a light at the end of the tunnel -- we all follow through with a speed programmed by evolution. Where are we coming from? From the Beginning, where once we were together and we would be together again, when, finally we finish our journey. How can we describe something which is The Beginning and the End of Everything at the same time ? It is an "Absolute" principle which has no attributes, because IT is beyond duality, beyond human comprehension. But Everything emanates from IT. How ? I have to use metaphors in order to bring this subject to the level of human consciousness. How does our day start ? We are waking up. Where are we ? We don't know. Our brain wasn't functioning during the night sleep, our consciousness was in the other reality. We remember nothing, it seems we were nowhere, particularly during our dreamless sleep. what happens then ? An unconscious desire to be awake grows within us. The desire expresses itself in a first "conscious" breath. A first thought and a first movement comes with it. It is very conventional to use these images to substitute what we call primordial matter in Theosophy. Our planet as well as a million of other planets and stars began from IT. By millions and millions of years of evolution human "monads" have developed as a gaseous substance first, then as the mineral kingdom, then as the vegetable kingdom, and finally became the animal kingdom. The animal has consciousness which express itself in the form of instincts. The evolution has continued its work, and the history of Humanity did begin only when the humanlike body was enlightened with self-conscious mind. As a train goes smoothly and fast on the rails of very well maintained track, so do we follow our way because Karma takes care of everything. Karma is The Law of Nature, the Law of action and reaction, the law of absolute justice and balance, the law which most of us know as "what you sow you will reap." There is personal Karma, family Karma, community Karma, and so on. There are no doubts that in this world everyone and everything follows the same cycle: birth, growth, bloom, fruit-bearing, aging, death. Our Earth also goes through the same process. What happens when matter dissolves ? It turns into different elements. We know that nothing appears or disappears without leaving a trace. So what happen with our individuality ? It is in our genes say materialists. We get it from the previous generations and it goes to the next ones. Suppose there is no next generation, then what ? We commit the crimes or sow love and good. As a result, religious believers say, we go to hell or heaven. No, contradict the materialists, we die gaining nothing and loosing nothing. A coat is worn, we throw it away. Where is the one who wore it ? Theosophy states that our body dissolves, but our wandering soul is eternal. Our soul reincarnates in another body and experiences next life, as it did million and million times before and will do after. Talking about Karma and Reincarnation, H. P. Blavatsky, famous Russian theosophist, wrote in the "Key to Theosophy" : "We can only perceive that if with us things ought to have been different, they would have been different; that we are what we have made ourselves, and have only what we have earned for ourselves... Belief in Karma is the highest reason for reconcilement to one's lot in life, and the very strongest incentive towards effort to better the succeeding re-birth. Both of these, indeed, would be destroyed if we supposed that our lot was the result of anything but strict Law, or that destiny was in any other hands than our own." Yes, Karma takes into account all our deeds and thoughts, but only spiritual experience help us to progress, to make one more step towards freedom. We have to live spiritual life while we are here, on Earth. And spiritual life is the "LIFE OF COMPASSION." P S: I want to share with you how studying Theosophy affected my life. The first: One day I discovered that the surrounding world and myself have changed in proportions and in meaning. My self became smaller and less significant. The Nature which previously existed only as a background, providing pleasures or inconvenienc es of life, turned into a dear, lifetime companion, a friend. The second: I know theoretically what the "Great Master" [ the Buddha] has said: "Let a man overcome wrath by absence of anger, let him overcome evil by good. Let him overcome the miser by generosity and the liar by truth." So I stopped retaliating and justifying my self -- this is the first small step in this direction. The third: At the end of the day when I get in bed I have no trouble falling asleep any more, because I know now how to span a gentle bridge between two states of my consciousness. Be well and best regards to everybody. -- -- -- -- =============================== From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 05:20:14 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Message-ID: <008e01bd9b89$15b12e40$03e78ccc@nwc.net> June 19th 1998 By week end we shall, as a world, be at Mid-summer. Greetings to all at this turn of the annual cycle. June 25th also marks the 79th death anniversary of Robert Crosbie, the founder of the United Lodge of Theosophists. [The ULT will hold a special meeting at 7.30 pm on Sunday June 1st to commemorate this anniversary. Address in Los Angeles at Theosophy Hall, Grand ave. and 33rd Street. ] Dallas offers: Some words from Robert Crosbie "How shall we apply Theosophy in daily life ? First, to think what we are in reality, on arising; to endeavor to realize what this small segment of our great existence may mean in the long series of such existences; to resolve to live throughout the day from the highest of our realizations; to see in each event and circumstance a reproduction in small or in great of that which has been; and to deal with each and every one of these from that same high point. Resolve to deal with them as though each had a deep occult meaning and presented an opportunity to further the successes of the past, or undo the errors. Thus living from moment to moment, hour to hour, life will be seen as a portion of a great web of action and reaction, intermeshed at every point, and connected with the Soul which provided the energy and sustained it. If each event is so considered throughout the day, be it small or great, the power to guide and control your energies will in no long time be yours. The smaller cycles of the personal ego will be related to the Divine Ego and the force that flows from the latter will show itself in every way, will strengthen the whole nature, and will even change the conditions, physical and otherwise, which surround you." "The Movement is accelerated by us to the extent we work for it, and hindered to the extent that we let it pull us along." "The greatest truths are the simplest." "For practical purposes: if we are developing the child-heart; if we are learning to love things beautiful; if we are becoming more honest and plain and simple; if we are beginning to sense the sweet side of life; if we are getting to like our friends better and extending the circle; if we feel ourselves expanding in sympathy; if we love to work for Theosophy and do not ask position as a reward; if we are not bothering too much about whether we are personal or impersonal -- this is traveling on the path..." R C -- The Friendly Philosopher. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 02:02:05 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Theos-World Invitation to Boston Message-ID: <7cAjs0ANibi1EwKd@nellie2.demon.co.uk> M K Ramadoss writes >Since the Boston lodge is now completely independent, I am interested in >establishing links with other theosophical groups. It would be nice for our >members to feel welcomed when visiting other groups, and for members of >other >groups to feel welcomed when visiting us. So, here is my invitation to >anyone >on this list. If you plan to visit Boston, please consider visiting us. I >would be glad to give directions, meet you, and be your host. > >Zack Lansdowne >The Theosophical Society in Boston >21 Maple Street >Arlington, MA 02174 >(781) 648-0101 >=================================== > >NOTE by MKR: > >I have seen in the last four decades, different TS organizations have >isolated themselves from each other. Internet at last is tearing down the >artificial organizational barriers (like the Berlin wall) and now those >interested in Theosophy whether belonging to one or more of the >organizations or none are interacting at the level of individuals as all of >us are committed to the same objects. The invitation from Boston is one >more example of the uniting influence of Internet and we have not seen >anything yet. When most homes are wired for Internet, a day will come soon >when many people interested in Theosophy around the world will be able to >interact and discuss and help each other. May Internet live long! > >MKR And may all caring theosophists join: --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: As well! (It's free)! http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:55:40 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Invitation to Boston Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980617235540.008807b0@mail.eden.com> >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:18:28 -0400 (EDT) >From: zackl@sprynet.com >Subject: Invitation to Boston Dear Friends, As a new member of this discussion list, I wish to introduce myself. I am a member at large of the TSA but have recently been elected President of the Theosophical Society in Boston. As some of you may know, the Boston Lodge had been part of the TSA for a long time; but a few years ago, the TSA attempted to dissolve our lodge and seize our assets. The Boston lodge responded with a legal fight. The outcome was that the Boston lodge became independent; it retained part of its assets, but the TSA and lawyers also received substantial portions. We have moved into a new location in Arlington (close to Boston), publish a quarterly newsletter, operate a bookstore, and have an active program of classes, workshops, and lectures. Since the Boston lodge is now completely independent, I am interested in establishing links with other theosophical groups. It would be nice for our members to feel welcomed when visiting other groups, and for members of other groups to feel welcomed when visiting us. So, here is my invitation to anyone on this list. If you plan to visit Boston, please consider visiting us. I would be glad to give directions, meet you, and be your host. Zack Lansdowne The Theosophical Society in Boston 21 Maple Street Arlington, MA 02174 (781) 648-0101 =================================== NOTE by MKR: I have seen in the last four decades, different TS organizations have isolated themselves from each other. Internet at last is tearing down the artificial organizational barriers (like the Berlin wall) and now those interested in Theosophy whether belonging to one or more of the organizations or none are interacting at the level of individuals as all of us are committed to the same objects. The invitation from Boston is one more example of the uniting influence of Internet and we have not seen anything yet. When most homes are wired for Internet, a day will come soon when many people interested in Theosophy around the world will be able to interact and discuss and help each other. May Internet live long! MKR From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:55:40 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Invitation to Boston Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980617235540.008807b0@mail.eden.com> >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:18:28 -0400 (EDT) >From: zackl@sprynet.com >Subject: Invitation to Boston Dear Friends, As a new member of this discussion list, I wish to introduce myself. I am a member at large of the TSA but have recently been elected President of the Theosophical Society in Boston. As some of you may know, the Boston Lodge had been part of the TSA for a long time; but a few years ago, the TSA attempted to dissolve our lodge and seize our assets. The Boston lodge responded with a legal fight. The outcome was that the Boston lodge became independent; it retained part of its assets, but the TSA and lawyers also received substantial portions. We have moved into a new location in Arlington (close to Boston), publish a quarterly newsletter, operate a bookstore, and have an active program of classes, workshops, and lectures. Since the Boston lodge is now completely independent, I am interested in establishing links with other theosophical groups. It would be nice for our members to feel welcomed when visiting other groups, and for members of other groups to feel welcomed when visiting us. So, here is my invitation to anyone on this list. If you plan to visit Boston, please consider visiting us. I would be glad to give directions, meet you, and be your host. Zack Lansdowne The Theosophical Society in Boston 21 Maple Street Arlington, MA 02174 (781) 648-0101 =================================== NOTE by MKR: I have seen in the last four decades, different TS organizations have isolated themselves from each other. Internet at last is tearing down the artificial organizational barriers (like the Berlin wall) and now those interested in Theosophy whether belonging to one or more of the organizations or none are interacting at the level of individuals as all of us are committed to the same objects. The invitation from Boston is one more example of the uniting influence of Internet and we have not seen anything yet. When most homes are wired for Internet, a day will come soon when many people interested in Theosophy around the world will be able to interact and discuss and help each other. May Internet live long! MKR From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:33:07 +0100 From: Mittelberger Martina Subject: Language Parallelism Message-ID: <53867E964149D1118FAC0004ACEE5A11111374@AVLRNT08> I have a question - maybe some of you have a good idea how to explain some surprising parallelisms in different languages. I like to learn foreign languages, it is a way to compare the cultures. The languages in the Western World have a great correspondence because of the same old roots. But now I am learning Tibetan and look what makes me astonished: Tibetans have the same words for Sunday and Monday as we have in English, German, Italian,... They build one word with Sun and Day and one word with Moon and Day. But I have never heard about common language roots with the Asians. I am no linguist, its just my hobby. I can explain this parallelism only with three thesis: 1. There is a common root of all languages (this sounds like the Holy Bible before Babel) 2. The peoples were taught by the same "World-Teachers" (some abstract ideas like matters of time have survived) 3. This two days have a deeper meaning and relation to the Sun and the Moon (although I am sure, that there are a lot of more parallelisms, not only weekdays) I hope to hear some explanations - Thanks Martina (Theos. society Austria) Martina Mittelberger Tel. 05522/75482-12 Fax 05522/75482-6 E.Mail: martina.mittelberger@vlr.gv.at From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:38:41 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: infonesia or intenesia Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980616033841.00967ea0@mail.eden.com> "Today's word: infonesia or internesia Here's a problem that's apparently becoming so widespread that it currently has two names: infonesia and internesia. Each is used to describe the inability to remember where one found a piece of information. While infonesia can be more broadly applied to all media, internesia makes it clear that the memory lapse is due to the overwhelming amount of electronic information (e-mail, Web sites, newsgroups, and so on) to which we're exposed. You'll know you've been hit with it when you tell your coworkers about this new thing called "infonesia," but forget that you read it here." >From Dummiesworld From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:04:35 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Live birth on Internet Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980616050435.00869cc0@mail.eden.com> "Tuesday when a woman named Elizabeth plans to give birth to her fourth child -- with a worldwide audience watching on the Web site of America's Health Network." It starts at 6 AM ET. ================== This opens up a lot of possibilities. All important National Meetings can be viewed on Internet for free. Sometime in the future all National and International Board/GC meetings can be broadcast live for any interested member to see. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:13:38 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Live birth on Internet Message-ID: <2c29c031.358699b3@aol.com> In a message dated 98-06-16 06:09:55 EDT, you write: > Sometime in the future all National and >International Board/GC meetings can be broadcast live for any interested >member to see. > >mkr > > Why is it that I somehow expect hell to freeze over first. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:45:23 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Live birth on Internet Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980616114523.00a2d100@mail.eden.com> At 12:21 PM 6/16/1998 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-16 06:09:55 EDT, you write: > >> Sometime in the future all National and >>International Board/GC meetings can be broadcast live for any interested >>member to see. >> >>mkr >> >> > >Why is it that I somehow expect hell to freeze over first. > >Chuck the Heretic > Anything is possible. Law of cycles operating. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:49:02 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Virus Alert of the day Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980616114902.007a78b0@mail.eden.com> Here is something from tip-world. ---------- "Welcome to the Virus Alert of the Day for Tuesday, June 16, 1998 The following viruses are scheduled to activate today: Concept.F, .G, .J, .T;U MDMA.W (Indonesian) June 16th The following viruses are expected to activate tomorrow: Concept.L Clock.A:DE Clock.B, .C, .D, .E, .F, .G Acid.A (All of the above viruses can be detected and removed with regular antivirus programs.) Virus Information of the Day: The Elton John Virus A new macro virus, called the Elton John virus, recently popped up in Spanish versions of Word. This benign virus displays the text of the first two verses of Elton John's tribute song to the late Princess Diana, "Candle in the Wind," in every Word document opened on an infected system." From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:41:25 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: "GET-TOGETHER" OF Sstudents ofTheosophy == Brookings, Oregon 7, 8, 9 August 1998 Message-ID: <004101bd9978$2a4174e0$03e78ccc@nwc.net> Meeting Announcement All are Welcome ============================== BROOKINGS STUDY GROUP [ U. L. T. ] 16209 W. Hoeffeldt # C, Brookings, Oregon, 97415 Phone: 541-469-1825 707-487-3063 [ Leave your name and phone number for a return call on our "machine" if we do not pick up. ] Invites all students of Theosophy to a gathering on August 7, 8, and 9th 1998 meetings to be held in Brookings and Smith River (near-by) Location: border of California and Oregon on Pacific coast. on Friday Aug 7th 7.30 pm to 9.30 pm, at the Conference Room, BROOKINGS BEACHFRONT INN Subject "The Three Objects of the Theosophical Movement set forth by Mme. Blavatsky in "Key to Theosophy" Format: Panel discussion All invited to participate Friday Aug. 7th 4.00 (prior to meeting) a pot-luck buffet at 14390 Ocean View Drive, Smith River, Ca., and Saturday Aug 8th Brunch at same address (time to be given later) to be followd by an informal discussion and exchange of ideas on Theosophical topics -- with special emphasis on Present and Future Work for Theosophy. All are Welcome Brookings Theosophy Study Group ===================================== Information about reservations available. Reservations ought to be made early. Many hotels and inns locally. R V accommodation at Harris Beach State Park Phone: 1-800-452-5687 Dallas TenBroeck From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:45:13 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: TS Deerfield Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980615074513.01256100@mail.eden.com> Good to see this msg. Deerfield is perhaps the first Branch to post its e-mail address on theos-l and it shows that it is moving forward to use the technology. Soon the snailmail address will become secondary and e-mail address as primary. At 12:21 AM 6/15/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Good day, >Please note: The Theosophical Society in Miami and South Florida, >located in Deerfield Beach, Florida now may be reached via e-mail at: >>theosocsf@aol.com. >Messages for local lodge members, who do not have personal e-mail >addresses, may be posted to the site above. A list of e-mail addresses >for our lodge members may be obtained by addressing the request to the >lodge % of the above. >Ken Malkin > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:03:43 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: proxies for neutrals Message-ID: Ok, For those of you who not sent in your proxies yet and are wondering if you want to been seen by the powers that be as being committed to act and are a bit nervous about it, for whatever reason, Gerda Thompson and I are both going to convention and thus will be able to vote proxies as well. For those of you who don't know her, Gerda has been a thorn in the side of John for a few years now insisting on such arcane measures as actually making board meeting minutes easily available to the members. She is also so scrupulously honest that rumor has it she once turned in her mother for keeping a library book overdue. And of course, I am the Heretic and follow no party line. If you want to give your proxies to us, put Charles W. Cosimano or Gerda J. Thompson in the appropriate spaces. (By the way, this was Gerda's idea, so don't blame me!) Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:14:06 -0400 From: Ken Malkin Subject: TS Deerfield Message-ID: <35849F8D.45E24ABC@gate.net> Good day, Please note: The Theosophical Society in Miami and South Florida, located in Deerfield Beach, Florida now may be reached via e-mail at: >theosocsf@aol.com. Messages for local lodge members, who do not have personal e-mail addresses, may be posted to the site above. A list of e-mail addresses for our lodge members may be obtained by addressing the request to the lodge % of the above. Ken Malkin From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 08:50:41 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: SD on Disks Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980613085041.0097e590@mail.eden.com> I have received a response from Vic Chin. The cost including air shipment is not to exceed $35.00. There are 4 disks and they have to be transferred to hard disk. Please contact vic at tspeace@mnl.sequel.net for more info. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 16:57:32 EDT From: ae238@acorn.net (Scott W. Ulrey) Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Re: Error Condition Re: Re: THEOS-L digest 1555 Message-ID: <199806112057.QAA01756@acorn.net> Please let me out of this thing. help > > > We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which may have been > inadvertedly sent to this list: > > UNSUBSCRIBE AE238@ACORN.NET > > If your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and resend your > mail message, making sure you do not include anything that may look like a > request in the first line of the body of the actual message. If this was > indeed a request please resend it to listproc@vnet.net > Your entire message > is copied below. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > unsubscribe ae238@acorn.net > > -- > -- From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 03:54:37 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980612035437.0105c550@mail.eden.com> At 03:23 AM 6/12/1998 +0100, you wrote: >W. Dallas TenBroeck writes >>Mr. Judge in one of his articles THE CLOSING CYCLE (IRISH >>THEOSOPHIST, January 1895) says: :"H.P.Blavatsky has clearly >>pointed out in the KEY, in her conclusion, that the plan is to >>keep the T S alive as an active free, unsectarian body during all >>the time of waiting for the next great messenger, who will be >>herself beyond question...And in all this time of waiting the >>Master, "that great Initiate, whose single will upholds the >>entire movement," will have his mighty hand spread out wide >>behind the Society." [ ULT Ed. Judge Articles Vol. 2, p. 153 ] > >The TS is, however, a fragmented, disputative, sectarian group of >bodies, disunited behind various historical persons who dared to >disagree. > >I guess the plan failed. > >Sorry, Mr. Judge. > >Alan >------------------- I do not know about the messenger coming or having come, who knows. But the back up plan, which is unstoppable, is the Internet maillists we all enjoy and participate round the clock around the world. These lists have shown to be able to cut across the organizational lines separating seekers of wisdom. Just the fact we are freely talking here with no one to control, supervise, guide, edit etc. msgs is very clear evidence. TI is also an example of this attempt. I am looking for the day when most theosophists of any persuation or none, wired and participate on these discussions. It may well happen much sooner but for the last gasp active opposition of Dugpas attempting to prevent unity and action ever since these lists were created. My 0.02. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 04:22:54 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Computer Info Message-ID: <3580F36E.4FE9@eden.com> One of the most extensive free daily info on computer related matters is available by e-mail. You may want to visit the following website and see if it interests you. I do not have any connection with the website owner. http://www.tipworld.com. .mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:46:26 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <10313c11.35816973@aol.com> In a message dated 98-06-12 05:01:20 EDT, you write: >I am looking for the day when most theosophists of any persuation or none, >wired and participate on these discussions. It may well happen much sooner >but for the last gasp active opposition of Dugpas attempting to prevent >unity and action ever since these lists were created. My 0.02. > >mkr > > > Unity???? Theosophists??? It's a miracle we can get in the same room without killing each other. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:56:39 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Website and SD on Disks Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980610235639.0138b9b0@mail.eden.com> Here is a msg I Rudy has posted on theos-talk. On visiting the site, I found SD on disks is available. See message below. ========================================== >From: Rodolfo Don I just want to let you all know that there is a new web site put together by the Philippines Theosophical Society. Its URL is: http://www.sequel.net/peace/tspweb.htm Rudy =========================================== Excerpted by MKR from the Website: The entire Secret Doctrine is now available in diskettes. The first release was made by the Theosophical Publishing House, Manila, and is available to lodges and individuals who are interested. The original pagination of the SD, the original 1888 edition is used. Information may be obtained by writing to: TPH Manila, 1 Iba St. Quezon City, or sending an email to tspeace@mnl.sequel.net ================================= Y From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:12:03 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Phillipines TS Website Message-ID: <357F6723.57A5@eden.com> Based on Rudy's msg, I visited the website. They have done a very good job. One very notable feature is the links provided at the website. Some notable links are Rudy's Website, Blavatsky Net, Krishnamurti Foundation, TS Pasadena, and ULT. This seems to reflect the inclusive philosophy of the website and should be congratulated. A good example for other theosophy websites to emulate. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:25:09 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Interesting observation Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980610132509.00866bc0@mail.eden.com> Here is an interesting observation during a usenet discussion on Theosophy etc. >And most importantly, THINK FOR YOURSELF! The Kingdom is within! You >will not >find it by obeying the lies of others. THINK FOR YOURSELF! TURN WITHIN! >LET THE >INFINITE COME TO YOU, AND LET IT REVEAL THE KINGDOM WITHIN! > > Hope this helps, > At your service, > Amminadab > http://members.aol.com/amminadab1/home.htm From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:57:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Morya etc. Message-ID: <199806081357.JAA20132@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> According to theos-l@vnet.net: Kay > > OK. "K" before "Paul" has misleaded me, I thought that it's > an abbreviation of the first name which is unknown to me. I don't use it, but there's a Paul Johnson with many more books, and better known ones, than I so I needed to insert the initial so avoid confusion. It's Kenneth. > > If there was any "prototype", especially several of them, but not a > full match, consequently Morya was imaginary person invented by HPB. As I stated on another list, I won't debate my books about HPB publicly any more, since the hypotheses have been in print over 7 years now and my new book about Cayce is just about to appear. That's really my main interest now. If you want to discuss by private email that's fine. Here, I'll just say that "imaginary person" does not seem to have the same meaning for you that it does for me. > > p> I would not say that "Morya" and Ranbir Singh are the > p> same person, because "Morya" is a literary character. > > So why can't we regard your books as "anti-HPB"? People can regard any books in any way they choose. But it would not be accurate to regard these particular books as "anti-HPB" which would be apparent if you were to read them. They are generally quite friendly to her, just not worshipful. > If she described Morya in her books, it would be "literary character", > but when she presents the letters & phenomena as coming from Morya, > it isn't a liteature, it's a humbug. The world is not such a black and white place in my estimation. If she entered yogic states where she believed herself in communion with her teachers, and wrote what she believed was their messages for them, does her misleading description of those teachers make the whole thing a "humbug"? Not in the sense that Hodgson meant it. > > p> Rather, I'd say that Morya is based primarily on Ranbir, with > p> other elements from other historical acquaintances of HPB, and > HPB herself describes maharaja of Kashmir. Maybe she mispresented > him, I don't know, but anyway she doesn't pay to him much respect. You've read The Durbar in Lahore. There are other references to him in Theosophical literature, that are more respectful of him. Especially Old Diary Leaves. snip Now, I have to say that it is foolish to try to defend books that the person criticizing them has not read, so if you wish to continue to discuss with me about them a)please read them first and b) then make it a private rather than public interrogation. Cheers, Paul > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 03:19:52 From: ESTELA LUNA Subject: A fairy tale (A very interesting topic) Message-ID: <19980609031952.4977.qmail@www04.netaddress.usa.net> Hi, gang. it's me again. Still fighting over the e-mail problems. Anyway, since my joining to this list, i wanted an answer to this interesting topic. Call it a Fairy tale. "Once upon a time, there was this world , this medieval world, in wich magicians, and elves, and a lot of pepole existed. There was this elf princess, who always was curious of the things that exist, that had been, and there will always be. (She was a seeker, as you can see) Also she was a dreamer, and more human than you can tell, cause in that world, elves and humans coexisted peacefully. She was a true romantic, suffering also when she feeled alone. Once she asked very dearly for the true knowledge, the knowledge the true mighty wizards of that kingdom had. Because an evil caracter overtrow the true king, that kingdom was summed on difficulties and darkness, and the good wizards were hunted, cause in throne was an evil black sorcerer. Anyway, she could see the wizards from faraway, because in the elf kingdom the wizards were protected. And here ye that was born the son of the king, a truly exceptional caracter. the son of the truly king. years passed, and the princess was now a young women, few years had passed since she made the promise of dedicating herself to the search and conquer of the true knowledge. She wanted to become a wizard. And, when she was not noticing, about to be engaged to a marriage, she founds the truly king.for this king was an initiate, a "son of God" as the old scriptures tell. the one destined to rule since his birth. And he was a real exceptional caracter. His beauty not seen before, though he could pass, if he wanted, in ragged clothes, as a peregrin, without being notice.His wisdom, clear at his young age, a bit older than the princess,was simply remarkable.for he dominated all science and arts, and he could see was beyond the veil of the things. He was a powerful wizard, but still, he was a young pupil, an initiate in the order. still filled with desires, and trying to gain control of himself at that time of virility. The princess charm with him, but remained careful. concentrated as she was in searching the truth, she didn't of her late petition to the One, of the gaining of the true knowledge, and the true and real love of a man. She was not interested in the king when she first meet him, only charmed about his beauty. later, his wisdom, strange for a boy of his age, captivated her, not knowing it truly. when she most profound in the vastity of the deep fountains of his wisdom, more in love was she fond of him, not knowing it counciously. And then one day, the inevitable occur. he kissed her, and he told her he desired her.She didn't understood him at first,loving his frienship, thinking of a profound knowledge occult. later, the desire in those two young bodies occur. they involved in a true melting, becoming one, in those warm nights. After, the king, seeking for pepole to help, to battle the evil sorcerer, for fighting for truth, had to part. the visits to the princess were fewer and fewer. the princess fell in love of him. Nobody knew her disgrace. consumpt by the love she profess to him, had to keep in secret her dear love to him. The more she taught of the secret and profound knowledge he had teach her, the more and more she fell propense to do the elevated work of THE ONE, cause he, as the god Shiva did with his wife Parvati, demonstrated that it was possible to achieve the truth.and to demonstrate that in his life and glory , fighting the evil sorcerer, and carry and seeking the golden flame of thruth. for he was one of the chosen ones, one of pure soul and heart. Even that, he could not express his dear love to the princess, or did he?? the pure desire could be the demonstrations of love, by someone filled with the most dearest love to humanity and the universe whole?? Or was only pure lust, made because his young self, in this lifetime?? Did she love him, just because he was the one who teach him about the ONE?? or was only grattitude, for that was the beggining of a life where eventualy Isis lost her veil to her?? Or could be possible that the love he transmited her of the true nature of the universe, and space, and God, she could confused it to a corresponding human love(but of the most pure nature) to her?? She was not satisfied with the pure animal desire, she wanted the true love, but she tought that the sex rite, even that it was a truly perfect sexual rite, was nothing, compared to the love he keep, as a true flamerose, in his deep self. How to distinguish it?? Which will be the faith of the princess?? Which will be the faith of the king?? Do they will have a future with each other?? or, they will have to wait, to the end of the cycles, after whole humanity will be liberated?? Estrella P.D. yea, yea, i know is TOO long....sorry. If you want, you can answer the last 5 questions. i tend to be some redundant sometimes. I hope you like the story. I'm trying to write the most beautiful story that i can. a true love story. Could you be helpful in finding clues to the hidden puzzle?? Thanks. I love you all.Thanks also for the patience for reading all of this text.


Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://netaddress.usa.net From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 07:21:50 -0400 From: jim meier Subject: Gemini Full Moon and World Invocation Day Message-ID: <199806090722_MC2-3FA4-B55@compuserve.com> The full moon of Gemini occurs tonight, June 09 for most of the country, 0:19am tomorrow morning for the East Coast (4:19am June 10 GMT) The Festival of Gemini is the third and concluding of the three which make up the spiritual highpoint of the year. The first is Easter, the great Western festival which is fixed in relation to the moon of Aires. The second is Wesak, the great Eastern festival of the Buddha which occurs at the moon of Taurus. The Gemini moon festival is the third, and it is also known (since 1952) as World Invocation Day, or the Festival of Goodwill. Easter is the Festival of the Risen Christ, Whom many believe to be the head of a spiritual Hierarchy, the expression of the Love of God. Wesak is the annual return of the Buddha, the expression of the Light of God. World Invocation Day or the Festival of Goodwill is that of humanity aspiring towards God, seeking conformity with the will of God and to the expression of right human relations. The energies generated at Wesak are released into humanity tonight, in the Gemini festival. from the World Goodwill pamphlet, "Three Spiritual Festivals": http://www.lucistrust.org "The Festival of Goodwill is the festival of the spirit of humanity aspiring towards God, seeking conformity with the will of God and dedicated to the expression of right human relations. The Festial is fixed annually in relation to the full moon of June. It is a day whereon the spiritual and divine nature of mankind is recognized. On this festival for 2,000 years the Christ has represented humanity and has stood before the Hierarchy and in the sight of Shamballa as the God-man, the leader of his people and 'the eldest in a great family of brothers' (Romans 8:29). Each year at this time he has preached the last sermon of the Buddha before the assembled Hierarchy. This is, therefore, a Festival of deep invocation and appeal, of a basic aspiration towards fellowship, of human and spiritual unity; it represents the effect in human consciousness of the work of the Buddha and of the Christ. This Festival is also observed as World Invocation Day. These three Festivals are a part of the unified spiritual approach of humanity, although they are not yet sufficiently related to each other. The time is coming when all three Festivals will be kept thoughout the world and by their means a great spiritual unity will be achieved and the effects of the Great Approach, so close to us at this time, will be stabilized by the united invocation of humanity throughout the planet." A group meditation will be held tonight at 7:00pm EDT on "Letting in the Light" and all are invited to participate. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 07:22:51 -0400 From: jim meier Subject: The Great Invocation Message-ID: <199806090723_MC2-3FA4-B79@compuserve.com> >From the point of Light within the Mind of God Let light stream forth into the minds of men. Let Light descend on Earth. >From the point of Love within the Heart of God Let love stream forth into the hearts of men. May Christ return to Earth. >From the center where the Will of God is known Let purpose guide the little wills of men -- The purpose which the Masters know and serve. >From the center which we call the race of men Let the plan of Love and Light work out and may it seal the door where evil dwells. Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on earth. ************************************** June 09, 1998 is World Invocation Day. The Great Invocation was first given out and used in 1945 and since that date has become familiar to millions of people all over the world, and is used daily by them. This world prayer expresses truths central to all major religions and is based on the true and inner unity of all religions and philosophies which millions today accept. Through the use of the Invocation men and women of goodwill can achieve a unity that transcends all differences of outer belief. Their combined and daily invocation and prayer to divinity creates an open channel into human consciousness through which spiritual energies flow to heal and rebuild a troubled world. Today the reappearance of the World Teacher -- the Christ -- is expected by millions, not only by those of Christian faith but by those of every faith who exect the Avatar under other names: the Lord Maitreya, Krishna, Messiah, Imam Madhi and the Bodhisattva. Glamour and distortion surround this central fact of divine response to human need. This is inevitable but unimportant. The fact of transition into a new age *is* important. Preparation by men and women of goodwill is needed to introduce new values for living, new standards of behavior, new attitudes of non-separateness and cooperation, leading to right human relations and a world at peace. The coming World Teacher will be mainly concerned not with the result of past error and inadequacy but with the requirements of a new world order and with the reorganization of the social structure. Will you join in observing World Invocation Day through the united use of the Great Invocation, and will you join in making this day widely known? -- from "World Invocation Day 1998, an Invitation to Men and Women of Goodwill" http:// www.lucistrust.org From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 23:01:47 +0900 From: Darren Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1551 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980607230147.00737de4@ozemail.com.au> Dallas, Concerning some of the points you made I beleive that Theosophy is the Wisdom of the Gods. Ie Advice for Initiates whilst in the stae of unity consciousness or god-hood. A lit of symbolism becomes apparent when in this deep meditative state where union with the source is achieved. However to remain with the source would mean a bodily death. This is however another of my insane ramblings and as such should be taking with a pince of salt. Darren At 11:09 PM 6/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:59:59 -0700 >From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" >To: >Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1548 THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES >Message-ID: <007a01bd90da$92ba6000$03e78ccc@nwc.net> > >June 5th 1998 > >Dear Doss: > >The report that you make on June 1st concerning THEOSOPHY FOR THE >MASSES as Krishnamurti viewed it is valuable for us all. > >To my mind there are two things to consider: > >1. Motive. Why does one feel an attraction for Theosophy ? >and, What does one expect to get out of its study ? > >2. Ability. Do we KNOW what Theosophy is ? and if we do not, >then how can we promulgate it accurately ? How can we meet >people where they are and assist with information that they can >actually use were they now are ? > >It is apparent that Krishnaji had the motive that was the most >generous, and wanted all to profit from the virtues and benefits >that a theosophical knowledge gives. He realized that all were >not at the same level, and had to be met at the level where they >were. Those who know more have to descend to the level of the >pupil to help him advance. The mind has to be able to return to >the "child-state it had lost," without however, loosing its >wisdom. > >Some have an immediate sympathy for those virtues. They then >look to the doctrines and the metaphysics that Theosophy offers. >Those provide, when grasped, the reasons that underlie the >virtues. > >Again, virtues in Theosophy, are not different from those which >are common to all philosophies and religions, and which are >innate in everyone without exception. Theosophy gives >explanations for them. If one takes for a basis the idea that >Theosophy is universal and fundamental to every great religion, >it does away with any "elitism." > >How is it that one can travel to any place on the face of the >earth ? No one knows the actual "laws" of the countries that >they visit. But if one behaves decently and honestly with the >people one meets, one does not get into trouble with them or with >their "laws." > >It has always seemed to me that Humanity is one, but somehow it >has allowed itself to get divided into "haves," and "have-nots." >Into the "intellectual," and the "practical." Into those who >think they are an "elite," and those who think they "cannot >think." Into those who >"play," and those who "work." And so on, endlessly ... all, are >useless considerations. Each human is essentially "themselves." > >It is self-knowledge that is important. Theosophy (as anyone who >reads the KEY TO THEOSOPHY can find out) deals with the knowledge >of the HIGHER SELF and its 6 vehicles. And when HPB has >considered and explained what our constitution is, she proceeds >to show what Practical Theosophy is. As to the basic >metaphysics, she says : > >Every human is a 7-fold being. A SPIRIT with 6 vehicles: this >Spirit lives a "separate" life on Earth so as to be of assistance >in the progress of many younger intelligences ("lives" which are >in effect its "children"). No being in the whole Universe is >"unconscious." Every being has an "intelligence" of its own. >The level of that intelligence marks its particular stage on the >ladder of evolution. In the KEY TO THEOSOPHY, HPB observes these >are : > >1. Wisdom -- "Buddhi" -- discrimination based on an enormous >individual antiquity and a memory of those experiences impacted >in the eternal Akasa that surrounds us all. > >By nature it is Universal, Giving, Compassionate, Wise and helps >all being around us. It Knows the Law of the Universe - Karma. >It is the "vehicle" of the Spiritual RAY that is present in each >being and is receiving (as an independent mind) its final >instruction in the human kingdom. In mankind it learns to be >powerfully cooperative. To the extent that it is cooperative, >its powers grow. Harmlessness to others is the key. It is not >"unconscious." > >2. "Manas" -- the Mind and the Mind Powers: reason, memory, >perception, anticipation (inference), fancy (misconception). > >The Mind (as a unit of power) has the ability to ally itself with >Wisdom -- and therefore can be called in that condition: >"virtuous." Or, the "Higher Mind." One of the great qualities >of the Higher Mind is that it considers universal ideas and is >"impersonal." It values the "Heart." This is cooperation as a >matter of observation and practice. > >Or it can ally itself with isolation, a selfishness produced by >the "Desire Nature." In which case, it is called the "Lower >Mind." And in that second state (and we are all in that >condition, when awake) it isolates itself and is "selfish." It >is the base for egotism. > >At some point the "Lower Mind" realizes that virtue is superior >to "vice." It becomes aware of the "moral equation." It >perceives that "brotherhood" is better than loyalties that >"separate," and are placed by it on religion, family, nation, and >itself as "survival" -- in fact that universality is the rule of >all true life. > >3. "Kama" -- Desire & passions. Wants and needs. The feelings >of a thousand kinds ( as separate from the mental powers which >give them personal life ). > >This quality arises from the perfection of that which in animals >is called "instinct." It focuses on the preservation of the >present "self." It considers itself as the only important >thing -- and this gives rise to the false concept of "elitism." >[ It seeks others of like nature, to join together, and form a >self-defensive cadre -- and we have sects, creeds, political >parties, etc. ] > >As a faculty "desire-Kama" cannot look into the future (as hope) >without the help of the mind faculties of "anticipation and >memory." When these two are joined we have the "Lower Mind." >The "personality" which is intensely "selfish" "hopes" it will be >able to enjoy in the future whatever it selects as actions that >will lead it to a situation of pleasure and ease. This operates >in us all the time. > >4. We find that there is a universal "Life-principle" which >animates us all, everywhere. Vitality is one of its names its >names, and over the space of a day, we "loose" it. and recuperate >its energy by a change of activity, rest, sleep, eating, >drinking, etc... The vitality works in the body, and in the >instinctual, feeling nature as well as the mind. It is >universal, all beings of whatever kind bathe in it. > >5. The "Astral Body" and "the "causal" formative side of >Nature. All beings have an "astral" or pattern body. This >underlies the physical body. It is called recently, the >"bio-genetic-field." On this electro-magnetic lattice the >physical molecules and cells, etc. align themselves. > >It is here that the many "atomic elements" form their basic >sub-atomic patterns, and cause their properties to become >uniform. It is at this level that we find "randomness" in action, >Here is the root of all "beings" of the Universe -- the >infinitely "small" are mirrors of the vast whole. But what we >think of as "randomness" is the operation of selective >intelligence at that level. > >Place yourself mentally on a very high building (like the empire >State Building) and look down at the activity in the streets >below, the flow of traffic of all kinds -- cars, people, busses, >and their moving and stopping, the interchange at intersections >for apparently no reason, the way vehicles and people avoid each >others or meet for a while only to move on again. To the >observer, given no base of similarity the whole pattern appears >random -- fractals in motion. It is only when we place ourselves >at their level that we see the "cause" for all the activity and >the rules that regulate it. > >6. The physical body. The "carrier" of the Mind. The field >where "feeling, passion and desire work." Constantly changing, >as we know it, but retaining the faculty of continuity with only >very slow changes over a life-time. > >What holds it together and directs the molecules and cells to >their appropriate places ? What is it that makes for the entire >cooperative system that our physical body is ? How does it >happen that we, the "Intelligence" that uses the body comes to >reside in it ? Why do we need to pay relatively so little >attention to our bodies ? Respiration, the beating of our hearts >and circulation of blood, digestion, nutrient distribution and >waste disposal systems all operate without our conscious >awareness. Why ? How ? > >These 6 "principles" are the tools of the 7th the Synthesizing >Unit. The SPIRIT in man, called ATMA -- and, as a "ray" it is >one with the Universal SPIRIT. > >It, the Spirit within, is the basis for Brotherhood. There is no >"elitism" in the spirit, only a vast and all inclusive >benevolence, that some have called "Ananda" or "bliss." It is the >alternate to the isolation of selfishness, isolation and >"passion." > >With this in mind, how can a knowledgeable Theosophist be >otherwise than practical and ready to serve ? > >Mankind is of many stages of learning. From the childhood of a >burgeoning mind, to the all-inclusive wisdom of a Great Master of >Wisdom. Everything is a united system of learning. Hence we >have reincarnation as a process. The spirit that is each human >in its essence never "dies." But it continues as the educational >center for the rest of the elements that make up our personality. > >The monitor that assists every one is WITHIN. It is the Higher >Self. >It is the conjoined UNIT: Atma-Buddhi-Manas. > >Now let me consider for a moment the statement that Mr. Judge >made concerning the "imitating" of the Masters. > >The reason is to be found in the above Theosophical explanation. >Once that we know what the Nature of the Master's wisdom is and >that it is a potential that we also have we ought to emulate, >copy, imitate their ways in our life, if we can. > >It is a life lived according to Karma, according to the work of >the Higher Mind, according to benevolence, harmony, tolerance, >generosity and sharing with others. It is life with a purpose. > >Some find they can study with ease. Others find it difficult and >have to struggle to make their personality do this. it is >uniting with others and not remaining in isolation. It is the >practice of virtue all the time. > >Some have great "heart." They do not want to study and they >reach out to others to help wherever they may be. They are, in >effect, by tolerance and generosity, Theosophists unaware. But >they need to know how and why they do this spontaneously. They >need to "cultivate" the mind. > >Some help with logic and explanations, others help practically. >"Hands on," is operating in either case. One is mental and the >other is practical. Both are needed. The hands and the heart >have to work together. this as humanity, is what we are all >learning to do. We are the cells and the molecules of the GREAT >UNIVERSAL MAN. As independent intelligences, we are learning >where we ought to be and what we ought to do. We do not abase >ourselves, but we become more vibrantly aware of what we CAN DO. >The place is irrelevant. We are a necessary part of the whole >and we will always be needed. > >In between "wisdom" and "foolishness" is the mind and the >personality. Here is where "elitism" springs up. Some employ >their mental abilities to think about "words," and some think >about "ideas." >Some worry about their position and how others "regard them;" >and they forget to do the work they are needed for. True >priorities are reversed and general harmony is upset. > >In steps the Law of Karma to bring a return to balance, and we >have an educative (not a punitive) effect that focuses on the >person who made the disturbance, with a view to getting them to >use their minds and observe how they were the cause of that >problem to begin with. >Thus, only the person or being who created the problem can now >solve it. > >Orientalists and specialists who read ancient tongues and delve >into ancient manuscripts are constantly confronted with words. >How is the reader to interpret them ? Is the ancient context the >same as our modern one ? Can we be impersonal and detached ? >This is the constant problem of a translator. How to translate >accurately without loosing the sense of the original writer. > >Words are the envelopes for the "inner sense." To bring that >meaning into new words is a battle. Some are convinced that >there is an "old Theosophy," and what they would like to see a >more familiar idiom used. They would they think, feel more >comfortable if a "new way of expressing it" is used. Fine. But, >without a knowledge of the "old theosophy," how are they to >become interpreters ? > >People are in a hurry. They do not realize that all changes >begin interiorly. As any change, to be valuable, begins with >instruction and study, so Theosophy needs to be studied. To be >time conserving, then, the only logical place is to go to the >SOURCES of Theosophy and for us that means : H.P.BLAVATSKY. > >The value of Theosophy, as I see it, is that it is broad enough >to provide reasons for virtuous living, and, it gives an >understanding of meaning -- if one broadens the mind to include >the implication of the words used. I realize that this is very >vague. But there is no other way of expressing it. > >The analyst seeks to derive interior meaning from the quality and >nature of the actual words used. In dong this he may loose the >perspective of the over-all picture. > >Is this not what Krishnamurthi was trying to explain ? > >Best wishes, Dallas. > >====================================== > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: theos-l@vnet.net >To: Multiple recipients of list >Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 8:07 PM >Subject: THEOS-L digest 1548 > > >> THEOS-L Digest 1548 >> >>Topics covered in this issue include: >> >> 1) theosophy for the masses and for the intellectuals >> by M K Ramadoss > > > SNIP -- > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:27:21 +0100 >From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" >To: theos-l@vnet.net >Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1548 THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES >Message-ID: > >W. Dallas TenBroeck writes >> Those who know more have to descend to the level of the >>pupil to help him advance. > >Those who know more have to revisit the level of the pupil to help >her/him understand and learn. It's not a hierarchy nor a power game. >Those who know more, in esoteric matters, *want* to help those who >know less as a matter of course. > >> The mind has to be able to return t> >Dear Dallas: > >You have wonderfully presented the outline of Theosophy. Each one of us is >different and with different levels of understanding and widely varying >interests. So long as we keep in our minds our eager interest/passion in >helping others at all times and in all things we do, whatever approach we >take, we will find better understanding and better opportunities. If we are >not always looking, how are we to find opportunities when they stare at us. > >Thanks > >...doss > > > >At 07:50 PM 6/5/1998 -0400, you wrote: >>June 5th 1998 >> >>Dear Doss: >> >>The report that you make on June 1st concerning THEOSOPHY FOR THE >>MASSES as Krishnamurti viewed it is valuable for us all. >> >>To my mind there are two things to consider: >> >>1. Motive. Why does one feel an attraction for Theosophy ? >>and, What does one expect to get out of its study ? >>> big clip<<<< > * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/12448929 * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 12448929@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 13:01:40 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: The Truman Show Message-ID: I'm sure the movie is not hurting for publicity, but I had to broadcast it to the theosophy lists. I saw the movie last night and it blew my mind. The concept of Maya is nothing new to me, but it was amazing seeing it played out in a movie. Most of the people in the audience were youths in their early twenties. I wondered how much of the meaning of the movie got to them. I wondered whether they understood the significance of it in relation to their world. I wondered whether that would make them contemplate the mayavic and controlling nature of their own world, how the media manipulated them, how people in authority, or people with whom they have strong emotional bonds manipulated them, how much culture and society dictated them, and how much interest groups have manipulated them. I wondered whether they wondered how much the human Will figured into all of this. Anyway, go see the movie! Two thumbs up from me. The movie displayed the concept beautifully, and people of all ages can understand and enjoy it. Like the way theosophy should sometimes be, eh? Gotta go and marbelize some tables. Happy weekend, folks! Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 16:48:14 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Moryas prototypes Message-ID: <199806071248.QAA02017@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hi Paul. > Hi, mr. Johnson! p> Call me Paul. OK. "K" before "Paul" has misleaded me, I thought that it's an abbreviation of the first name which is unknown to me. > you really insist that Morya and maharaja of Kashmir are the same person? p> A.) No p> But Ranbir Singh, Maharaja of Kashmir, is the prototype who receives p> the most attention, and corresponds to more tales about Morya than any p> other historical figure with whom HPB was associated. If there was any "prototype", especially several of them, but not a full match, consequently Morya was imaginary person invented by HPB. p> I would not say that "Morya" and Ranbir Singh are the p> same person, because "Morya" is a literary character. So why can't we regard your books as "anti-HPB"? If she described Morya in her books, it would be "literary character", but when she presents the letters & phenomena as coming from Morya, it isn't a liteature, it's a humbug. p> Rather, I'd say that Morya is based primarily on Ranbir, with p> other elements from other historical acquaintances of HPB, and HPB herself describes maharaja of Kashmir. Maybe she mispresented him, I don't know, but anyway she doesn't pay to him much respect. M. was critical to English occupants, maharaja servilly presents nezzur to the vice-king. And got from him the expensive presents. He was a very rich man and his elephant was stacked with diamonds. Masters even haven't enough paper in their home and use the reverse side of someone's last will. Morya is against caste prejudices, and like other adepts has a full control of his body. Maharaja took a purgative which his doctor gave him, and being unable to visit a toilet at the railway station, what would be a defilement from him, has to leave the procession in a hurry. Anyway, maharaja of Kashmir is a comical "literary character" in HPB's eyes. It would be much better to select the maharaja of Puttiala for M's prototype - at least it was even more funny :) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:59:59 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1548 THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES Message-ID: <007a01bd90da$92ba6000$03e78ccc@nwc.net> June 5th 1998 Dear Doss: The report that you make on June 1st concerning THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES as Krishnamurti viewed it is valuable for us all. To my mind there are two things to consider: 1. Motive. Why does one feel an attraction for Theosophy ? and, What does one expect to get out of its study ? 2. Ability. Do we KNOW what Theosophy is ? and if we do not, then how can we promulgate it accurately ? How can we meet people where they are and assist with information that they can actually use were they now are ? It is apparent that Krishnaji had the motive that was the most generous, and wanted all to profit from the virtues and benefits that a theosophical knowledge gives. He realized that all were not at the same level, and had to be met at the level where they were. Those who know more have to descend to the level of the pupil to help him advance. The mind has to be able to return to the "child-state it had lost," without however, loosing its wisdom. Some have an immediate sympathy for those virtues. They then look to the doctrines and the metaphysics that Theosophy offers. Those provide, when grasped, the reasons that underlie the virtues. Again, virtues in Theosophy, are not different from those which are common to all philosophies and religions, and which are innate in everyone without exception. Theosophy gives explanations for them. If one takes for a basis the idea that Theosophy is universal and fundamental to every great religion, it does away with any "elitism." How is it that one can travel to any place on the face of the earth ? No one knows the actual "laws" of the countries that they visit. But if one behaves decently and honestly with the people one meets, one does not get into trouble with them or with their "laws." It has always seemed to me that Humanity is one, but somehow it has allowed itself to get divided into "haves," and "have-nots." Into the "intellectual," and the "practical." Into those who think they are an "elite," and those who think they "cannot think." Into those who "play," and those who "work." And so on, endlessly ... all, are useless considerations. Each human is essentially "themselves." It is self-knowledge that is important. Theosophy (as anyone who reads the KEY TO THEOSOPHY can find out) deals with the knowledge of the HIGHER SELF and its 6 vehicles. And when HPB has considered and explained what our constitution is, she proceeds to show what Practical Theosophy is. As to the basic metaphysics, she says : Every human is a 7-fold being. A SPIRIT with 6 vehicles: this Spirit lives a "separate" life on Earth so as to be of assistance in the progress of many younger intelligences ("lives" which are in effect its "children"). No being in the whole Universe is "unconscious." Every being has an "intelligence" of its own. The level of that intelligence marks its particular stage on the ladder of evolution. In the KEY TO THEOSOPHY, HPB observes these are : 1. Wisdom -- "Buddhi" -- discrimination based on an enormous individual antiquity and a memory of those experiences impacted in the eternal Akasa that surrounds us all. By nature it is Universal, Giving, Compassionate, Wise and helps all being around us. It Knows the Law of the Universe - Karma. It is the "vehicle" of the Spiritual RAY that is present in each being and is receiving (as an independent mind) its final instruction in the human kingdom. In mankind it learns to be powerfully cooperative. To the extent that it is cooperative, its powers grow. Harmlessness to others is the key. It is not "unconscious." 2. "Manas" -- the Mind and the Mind Powers: reason, memory, perception, anticipation (inference), fancy (misconception). The Mind (as a unit of power) has the ability to ally itself with Wisdom -- and therefore can be called in that condition: "virtuous." Or, the "Higher Mind." One of the great qualities of the Higher Mind is that it considers universal ideas and is "impersonal." It values the "Heart." This is cooperation as a matter of observation and practice. Or it can ally itself with isolation, a selfishness produced by the "Desire Nature." In which case, it is called the "Lower Mind." And in that second state (and we are all in that condition, when awake) it isolates itself and is "selfish." It is the base for egotism. At some point the "Lower Mind" realizes that virtue is superior to "vice." It becomes aware of the "moral equation." It perceives that "brotherhood" is better than loyalties that "separate," and are placed by it on religion, family, nation, and itself as "survival" -- in fact that universality is the rule of all true life. 3. "Kama" -- Desire & passions. Wants and needs. The feelings of a thousand kinds ( as separate from the mental powers which give them personal life ). This quality arises from the perfection of that which in animals is called "instinct." It focuses on the preservation of the present "self." It considers itself as the only important thing -- and this gives rise to the false concept of "elitism." [ It seeks others of like nature, to join together, and form a self-defensive cadre -- and we have sects, creeds, political parties, etc. ] As a faculty "desire-Kama" cannot look into the future (as hope) without the help of the mind faculties of "anticipation and memory." When these two are joined we have the "Lower Mind." The "personality" which is intensely "selfish" "hopes" it will be able to enjoy in the future whatever it selects as actions that will lead it to a situation of pleasure and ease. This operates in us all the time. 4. We find that there is a universal "Life-principle" which animates us all, everywhere. Vitality is one of its names its names, and over the space of a day, we "loose" it. and recuperate its energy by a change of activity, rest, sleep, eating, drinking, etc... The vitality works in the body, and in the instinctual, feeling nature as well as the mind. It is universal, all beings of whatever kind bathe in it. 5. The "Astral Body" and "the "causal" formative side of Nature. All beings have an "astral" or pattern body. This underlies the physical body. It is called recently, the "bio-genetic-field." On this electro-magnetic lattice the physical molecules and cells, etc. align themselves. It is here that the many "atomic elements" form their basic sub-atomic patterns, and cause their properties to become uniform. It is at this level that we find "randomness" in action, Here is the root of all "beings" of the Universe -- the infinitely "small" are mirrors of the vast whole. But what we think of as "randomness" is the operation of selective intelligence at that level. Place yourself mentally on a very high building (like the empire State Building) and look down at the activity in the streets below, the flow of traffic of all kinds -- cars, people, busses, and their moving and stopping, the interchange at intersections for apparently no reason, the way vehicles and people avoid each others or meet for a while only to move on again. To the observer, given no base of similarity the whole pattern appears random -- fractals in motion. It is only when we place ourselves at their level that we see the "cause" for all the activity and the rules that regulate it. 6. The physical body. The "carrier" of the Mind. The field where "feeling, passion and desire work." Constantly changing, as we know it, but retaining the faculty of continuity with only very slow changes over a life-time. What holds it together and directs the molecules and cells to their appropriate places ? What is it that makes for the entire cooperative system that our physical body is ? How does it happen that we, the "Intelligence" that uses the body comes to reside in it ? Why do we need to pay relatively so little attention to our bodies ? Respiration, the beating of our hearts and circulation of blood, digestion, nutrient distribution and waste disposal systems all operate without our conscious awareness. Why ? How ? These 6 "principles" are the tools of the 7th the Synthesizing Unit. The SPIRIT in man, called ATMA -- and, as a "ray" it is one with the Universal SPIRIT. It, the Spirit within, is the basis for Brotherhood. There is no "elitism" in the spirit, only a vast and all inclusive benevolence, that some have called "Ananda" or "bliss." It is the alternate to the isolation of selfishness, isolation and "passion." With this in mind, how can a knowledgeable Theosophist be otherwise than practical and ready to serve ? Mankind is of many stages of learning. From the childhood of a burgeoning mind, to the all-inclusive wisdom of a Great Master of Wisdom. Everything is a united system of learning. Hence we have reincarnation as a process. The spirit that is each human in its essence never "dies." But it continues as the educational center for the rest of the elements that make up our personality. The monitor that assists every one is WITHIN. It is the Higher Self. It is the conjoined UNIT: Atma-Buddhi-Manas. Now let me consider for a moment the statement that Mr. Judge made concerning the "imitating" of the Masters. The reason is to be found in the above Theosophical explanation. Once that we know what the Nature of the Master's wisdom is and that it is a potential that we also have we ought to emulate, copy, imitate their ways in our life, if we can. It is a life lived according to Karma, according to the work of the Higher Mind, according to benevolence, harmony, tolerance, generosity and sharing with others. It is life with a purpose. Some find they can study with ease. Others find it difficult and have to struggle to make their personality do this. it is uniting with others and not remaining in isolation. It is the practice of virtue all the time. Some have great "heart." They do not want to study and they reach out to others to help wherever they may be. They are, in effect, by tolerance and generosity, Theosophists unaware. But they need to know how and why they do this spontaneously. They need to "cultivate" the mind. Some help with logic and explanations, others help practically. "Hands on," is operating in either case. One is mental and the other is practical. Both are needed. The hands and the heart have to work together. this as humanity, is what we are all learning to do. We are the cells and the molecules of the GREAT UNIVERSAL MAN. As independent intelligences, we are learning where we ought to be and what we ought to do. We do not abase ourselves, but we become more vibrantly aware of what we CAN DO. The place is irrelevant. We are a necessary part of the whole and we will always be needed. In between "wisdom" and "foolishness" is the mind and the personality. Here is where "elitism" springs up. Some employ their mental abilities to think about "words," and some think about "ideas." Some worry about their position and how others "regard them;" and they forget to do the work they are needed for. True priorities are reversed and general harmony is upset. In steps the Law of Karma to bring a return to balance, and we have an educative (not a punitive) effect that focuses on the person who made the disturbance, with a view to getting them to use their minds and observe how they were the cause of that problem to begin with. Thus, only the person or being who created the problem can now solve it. Orientalists and specialists who read ancient tongues and delve into ancient manuscripts are constantly confronted with words. How is the reader to interpret them ? Is the ancient context the same as our modern one ? Can we be impersonal and detached ? This is the constant problem of a translator. How to translate accurately without loosing the sense of the original writer. Words are the envelopes for the "inner sense." To bring that meaning into new words is a battle. Some are convinced that there is an "old Theosophy," and what they would like to see a more familiar idiom used. They would they think, feel more comfortable if a "new way of expressing it" is used. Fine. But, without a knowledge of the "old theosophy," how are they to become interpreters ? People are in a hurry. They do not realize that all changes begin interiorly. As any change, to be valuable, begins with instruction and study, so Theosophy needs to be studied. To be time conserving, then, the only logical place is to go to the SOURCES of Theosophy and for us that means : H.P.BLAVATSKY. The value of Theosophy, as I see it, is that it is broad enough to provide reasons for virtuous living, and, it gives an understanding of meaning -- if one broadens the mind to include the implication of the words used. I realize that this is very vague. But there is no other way of expressing it. The analyst seeks to derive interior meaning from the quality and nature of the actual words used. In dong this he may loose the perspective of the over-all picture. Is this not what Krishnamurthi was trying to explain ? Best wishes, Dallas. >Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 8:07 PM >From: theos-l@vnet.net >Subject: THEOS-L digest 1548 From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:27:21 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1548 THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES Message-ID: W. Dallas TenBroeck writes > Those who know more have to descend to the level of the >pupil to help him advance. Those who know more have to revisit the level of the pupil to help her/him understand and learn. It's not a hierarchy nor a power game. Those who know more, in esoteric matters, *want* to help those who know less as a matter of course. > The mind has to be able to return to >the "child-state it had lost," without however, loosing its >wisdom. I see this almost as a tautology! Alan :-) --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 21:46:33 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re:THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980605214633.01693870@mail.eden.com> Dear Dallas: You have wonderfully presented the outline of Theosophy. Each one of us is different and with different levels of understanding and widely varying interests. So long as we keep in our minds our eager interest/passion in helping others at all times and in all things we do, whatever approach we take, we will find better understanding and better opportunities. If we are not always looking, how are we to find opportunities when they stare at us. Thanks ...doss At 07:50 PM 6/5/1998 -0400, you wrote: >June 5th 1998 > >Dear Doss: > >The report that you make on June 1st concerning THEOSOPHY FOR THE >MASSES as Krishnamurti viewed it is valuable for us all. > >To my mind there are two things to consider: > >1. Motive. Why does one feel an attraction for Theosophy ? >and, What does one expect to get out of its study ? >> big clip<<<< From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:57:23 -0700 From: Mark Kusek Subject: Some Buddhist questions Message-ID: <35771836.30D6@withoutwalls.com> Jerry (and anyone else who'd care to chime in), I've been reading some books on Buddhism and trying to delve in a little deeper. Some questions arose in the course of my study that I wanted to ask you about, if you don't mind. You seem somewhat informed about Buddhism, so I wanted to ask you these questions both with a view towards understanding traditional views as well as a comparison vis-a-vis theosophy. The first concerns developing Bodhichitta. One of the assumptions that are proposed in the Buddhist effort toward development of Bodhicitta is the thought that all sentient life was at one time your mother, therefore it is recommended to think of that in an effort to arouse equanimous affection and then compassion toward all people and other forms of life. It got me to thinking. That is a pretty steep assumption to accept as true except on faith. It can't be proven by the student. If the view of all sentient life as your mother holds true, it seems reasonable that it would also be true of fathers, sisters, brothers, spouses, friends, enemies, intimates, acquaintances, and people generally considered in the abstract as "all the rest of mankind," (the great masses who you know are 'out there' but never actually interact with in a direct personal way). This would result in a scale of intimacy of relations which is directly contrary to the objective of developing bodichitta in the first place, The traditional teaching posits the "uncertainty of relations" in an effort to develop equanimity toward all. This reasoning kind of blows the value of the assumption apart, IMO. Why concentrate on mothers only, and why devalue the current relationships in favor of an idealized mother if all possible relationships can be equally posited? Why not just deal with the current relationships as you find them? Why the mental gymnastics? Also, this seems to assume that in addition to having had all sentient life as your mother, in one or another of the countless incarnations of the past, all sentient life (including yourself) were also all animals, plants, minerals, protomatter, etc at one time or another. Does this same view hold true going backward even farther? Can one assume that owing to a cyclic progression that in some remote past, all life has also already been bodhisattvas and buddhas, earning their liberation from the cycle of necessity, and saving all the sentient life of endless remote cycles over and over? If so, why incarnate again, at all? Why another universe? If everyone "made it" to liberation, why the mayavic charade? Is it "creative play?" What is the root cause that set the karmic wheel in motion? What does buddhist tradition say about that? Does Buddhism teach progressive evolution as theosophy (manvantaras and pralayas) does? If so, what besides the karma of individuals (or skandas) is said to cause the continual manifestation of a new universe? Does theosophy teach that all life has already been buddhas and bodhisattvas over and over again in a beginningless and endless cyclically manifesting existence? The Buddhist books I'm reading seem to suggest a beginningless past, but not a continual cyclic one that posits liberation to involution/ensnarement/evolution to liberation, etc. Do you know of any traditional Buddhist source literature that supports or refutes this? I hope I'm being clear. Another question I have is about attachment. I've found suggested injunctions against creating and enjoying sensory images, sounds, drama, etc. (i.e., forms of culture), because it causes ensnarement in maya and breeds samsaric karma. Islam also has a tint of this attitude . Yet, by contrast, I think of all of the art that was devotedly (and ritually) created in the Buddhist traditions (and other religious traditions as well) and how much it acts as a vehicle for conveying dharma in culture, even to the degree of writing the teachings down. It seems to me that if these injunctions are to be taken seriously, you'd also have to view any and all sensory, emotional, mental, and aesthetic experience in much the same way. Then I ask, OK, well if that's so, (and especially if we have all progressively been buddhas and bodhisattvas before) why is sentient experience the way it is? Life may be suffering, but it is also enjoyment. Does cessation of one also yield cessation of the other? The middle way seems to suggest that we should be nonattached to both pleasure and pain, good and bad, etc. The last question: If all manifestation and awareness of a "self" is mayavic and illusory, how can "sentient being," worthy of saving be defined? How is one to consider "sentient life" (including your own) as a valuable thing if it's ultimately illusory? Why did the Buddha get up from the Bodhi tree? If all is void, and his enlightenment enabled him to be nonattached, why did he value sentient beings enough to care, teach, etc.? I'd appreciate any insight you or others might provide. Thanks, Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:26:52 -0400 From: jim meier Subject: Heretics in Good Company Message-ID: <199806032027_MC2-3F1A-80DD@compuserve.com> St. Joan of Arc - Galileo - Johannes Kepler - Meister Eckhart Copernicus - Tertullian - Martin Luther - Menno Simons - Mathew Fox - Origen - St. Zephyrinus - Carmel McEnroy - John McNeil - Hans Kung - Ivone Gebara - the Franciscans - Hippolytus - Peter Waldo - Arnold of Brescia- Henry of Lausanne - Jesus of Nazareth - Tissa Balasuriya of Sri Lanka - Jovinian - Clementius / Everard - Jan Hus - Peter Abelard - Gerard Segarelli - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin - Patrick Hamilton - Charles Curran - Ihm Sisters of Los Angeles - Joachim of Fiore - Leonardo Boff - John Courtney Murray - Theodoret - Ebion - Lucas of Prague - Theodore of Mopsuestia - Fratres Unitores - Giordano Bruno - John Scotus Erigena - Giraude de Lavaur - David of Dinant - Bill Callahan - the Vatican 24 - Marguerite Porete - the Beguines - Call to Action of Nebraska HERETIC IN GOOD COMPANY is the cover of the latest Northern Sun catalog, also poster and T-shirt (of course), www.northernsun.com. "Free Thinker" is not the same as Ageless Wisdom, exactly, but it's close enough to rate a posting here, imo. Makes a "Who's Who" of liberals trivia question... and gave me a chance to try out the encyclopedia CD-ROM that came with this PC.... anybody know who is/are "Call to Action of Nebraska"? Jim From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:22:31 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: theosophy for the masses and for the intellectuals Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980601222231.00a2f430@mail.eden.com> We had discussions on how theosophy can be brought to masses and the complex details that interest intellectually oriented. I think that theosophy caters to everybody -- from the ignorant, illiterate to philosophers and pundits with PhDs. However, the key seems to be the ability of the latter to get down from the high horse and actively and creatively take action that will help the ignorant and illiterate. From the point of view of the latter, here is a statement Krishnaji made which is to the point. "Krishnamurti has harsh words for the spiritual "elitism" implicit in the traditional approaches:" ".... first there is whole idea that it is only for the most super-elite that this can happen. And to come to that state of the elite, you must go through lives, practice, through yoga, through various forms of meditation, you must sacrifice, you must not marry, you must be poor, you must be rich, you must be devout, you must be celibate, do this or not do this, dozens and dozens of things. And people have done it and never got it. They done all these various things with their lives, tortured themselves... So it isn't just something you work towards, or you invite. It is not progressive achievement...it doesn't function that way..." "Krishnamurti's deep concern was not to cultivate a spiritual elite, but to reach everyone:" "But there is the man in the street all the same. What is he going to do?... He's concerned with his life, not with Krishnamurti's life or the Theosophical life or the Catholic life: he's concerned with his daily life. And when you bring this thing in, he says, "You so immeasurably complicate it." And the people want it to complicate... that is a way of escaping from themselves." [Quoted from JK's Conversations with KFA Trustees, 1972] [In this discussion JK discusses in detail the TS's spiritual hierarchy, the TS expectations with regard to the World Teacher and his perception of his own mission. Very small portion of the discussion has been released. If and when rest of the material is released, I will not be surprised if we find some shocking statements from him.] From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:29:13 -0700 From: Caldwell/Graye Subject: Vol. 3 of Secret Doctrine Message-ID: <3573FE29.172F@azstarnet.com> TO Darren, Dallas, Brenda, Alan Bain and other interested people: Concerning the question of Vol. 3 of THE SECRET DOCTRINE, please read my article titled "The Myth of the 'Missing' Third Volume of The Secret Doctrine" on the World Wide Web at: http://www.azstarnet.com/~blafoun/sdiiimyt.htm In this paper, I go over the primary source materials in great detail. My conclusion is: "I am inclined to believe that pages 1-430 of Volume III of The Secret Doctrine published in 1897 was the real third volume intended by HPB." I'd appreciate people's feedback. Daniel Caldwell From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:24:58 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The June THEOSOPHY WORLD is Out Message-ID: The June issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Announcement" "Blavatsky Conference Outline" "The Necessity of Fraternization" by Herman C. Vermeulen "On the Importance of Religious Thought" by Eldon Tucker "June Blavatsky Net Update" by Reed Carson "Questions on the Sacred Seasons" by L. Gordon Plummer "Summary of the 'Secret Doctrine' Symposium" by Arden Strycker "The Ultimate is not Bipolar" by Eldon Tucker "Recommended Web Sites" by Theos-talk Readers "Universal Evolution" by Dallas TenBroeck "Regarding the Need for Meaning" by Pam Giese "Facts About H.P.B.'s Occult Ring" by Mrs. Harry Benjamin "Powers of Meditation" by Harold Merry "Lost Souls and Spiritual Evil" by G. de Purucker "Two Types of Evil" by Eldon Tucker THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:58:08 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Vol. 3 of Secret Doctrine Message-ID: Caldwell/Graye writes >"I am inclined to believe that pages 1-430 >of Volume III of The Secret Doctrine published >in 1897 was the real third volume intended by HPB." > >I'd appreciate people's feedback. Aarrgh! I have some of [downloaded] 1888 version, plus the 1895 edition. Is there no end to this problem!! Oh, and the welcome receipt of the printed version of the 1888 Proem and Stanzas from ULT London. Can't read the signature, so maybe whoever arranged this can remind me of the name so I can send a "thank you" note. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:24:36 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The June THEOSOPHY WORLD is Out Message-ID: The June issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Announcement" "Blavatsky Conference Outline" "The Necessity of Fraternization" by Herman C. Vermeulen "On the Importance of Religious Thought" by Eldon Tucker "June Blavatsky Net Update" by Reed Carson "Questions on the Sacred Seasons" by L. Gordon Plummer "Summary of the 'Secret Doctrine' Symposium" by Arden Strycker "The Ultimate is not Bipolar" by Eldon Tucker "Recommended Web Sites" by Theos-talk Readers "Universal Evolution" by Dallas TenBroeck "Regarding the Need for Meaning" by Pam Giese "Facts About H.P.B.'s Occult Ring" by Mrs. Harry Benjamin "Powers of Meditation" by Harold Merry "Lost Souls and Spiritual Evil" by G. de Purucker "Two Types of Evil" by Eldon Tucker THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:24:49 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The June THEOSOPHY WORLD is Out Message-ID: The June issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Announcement" "Blavatsky Conference Outline" "The Necessity of Fraternization" by Herman C. Vermeulen "On the Importance of Religious Thought" by Eldon Tucker "June Blavatsky Net Update" by Reed Carson "Questions on the Sacred Seasons" by L. Gordon Plummer "Summary of the 'Secret Doctrine' Symposium" by Arden Strycker "The Ultimate is not Bipolar" by Eldon Tucker "Recommended Web Sites" by Theos-talk Readers "Universal Evolution" by Dallas TenBroeck "Regarding the Need for Meaning" by Pam Giese "Facts About H.P.B.'s Occult Ring" by Mrs. Harry Benjamin "Powers of Meditation" by Harold Merry "Lost Souls and Spiritual Evil" by G. de Purucker "Two Types of Evil" by Eldon Tucker THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Morya's prototypes Message-ID: <199806011335.JAA07723@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> According to theos-l@vnet.net: > From: "K. Zaitzev" > > Hi, mr. Johnson! Call me Paul. > > Did you really insist that Morya and maharaja of Kashmir are the same person? > Or mr. Caldwell and other people like him have mispresented your opinion? A.) No B.) Yes The first prototype for Morya presented in The Masters Revealed is Giuseppe Mazzini, with whom HPB was associated in London in the 1850s according to some sources, and whom I therefore think is the M. she met in that city. Thus part of the story about Morya seems to resonate with that relationship. But Ranbir Singh, Maharaja of Kashmir, is the prototype who receives the most attention, and corresponds to more tales about Morya than any other historical figure with whom HPB was associated. (As best I have been able to determine.) However, in TMR I also mention a Kashmiri trader who had converted to Buddhism, and traveled frequently between Kashmir and Lhasa, as someone whose characteristics seem to have fed the personae of M. and K.H. In the sequel, Initiates of Theosophical Masters, I mention the Raja of Wadhwan as another acquaintance some of whose traits appear in Morya. Subsequently it was pointed out to me that the Maharaja of Varanasi, a TS supporter, had "Maurya" in his name; so that is another Indian ruler who appears to have fed the character. I would not say that "Morya" and Ranbir Singh are the same person, because "Morya" is a literary character. Rather, I'd say that Morya is based primarily on Ranbir, with other elements from other historical acquaintances of HPB, and some elements that are completely fictional. There are several passages in TMR where I refer to Ranbir as "being" Morya, Thakar Singh as "being" Koot Hoomi, and so on. Which means "being the primary inspiration for the character of..." I never, to my knowledge, say that Morya *is* Ranbir, etc., which would reduce a complex situation to an easily refuted oversimplification. But that is the position that some readers have assumed the book to take, and I regret not making the issue clearer. Cheers, Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:39:45 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Mondrian #2 Message-ID: Hi Eiichi, Now that I've read Mondrian's writing, I find that his theories are classic theosophy in combination with art theories of the time. My posts before my last post were done before his complete work was available to me, and was inspired by secondary writings. Mondrian's writing is a whole lot simpler than all the analysis of his writings! I would consider my last post to be most to the point in relation to Mondrian's writing. However, in some of the conclusions of my other posts, I was delving into the mechanics of Mondrian's equilibrium. The mechanics is not covered in Mondrians' writing, but can be inferred from it. I'm resposting some of the thoughts. Perhaps with the last post, in combination with this one, you can get a better idea of theosophy and some of the mechanics. I'm going to add notes here and there to better connect the thoughts with my last post. These will have asterisks in front of them. ******************* You can find what Mondrian is referring to (no-time, non-repetition) in ideas older than the Secret Doctrine, in Hinduism and Buddhism. In fact, it's pretty basic Yoga. As far as I can see, there are no direct references to rhythm indexed in the major works by Blavatsky that we have. *Mondrian's rhythm is in the Secret Doctrine I and II, in passages of the Stanzas of Dzyan and discussions of various forces of duality. The core of his theory is in the idea of the rhythm of duality, of extreme opposites canceling each other out to equilibrium. I highly recommend reading the Secret Doctrines (Doctrine I especially) with an eye toward discussions on duality. However, the idea of rhythm expressed by Mondrian in your quote is not rhythm as we generally know it, but rhythm in terms of finding the stillness of equilibrium to liberate ourselves from Maya. *Goes with my past post on using the duality of pure opposites to come into equilibrium. It is a way to come back into the Oneness. Not a bad deduction, considering that I did not read his complete work. You can call me Ms. Holmes. When the Secret Doctrine discusses about Pralaya, Laya centers, cycles, and illusion, there are plenty of ideas from which to build such a theory. In the Stanzas of the Secret Doctrine, you can see references to time and space being illusion, and how we evolve to free ourselves from Maya. From that, you can see where Alice Bailey got her ideas about rhythm. For example, in Yogic and Buddhic meditation, the purpose is to still the vibrations of the senses, the emotions, and the lower mind. By doing that, you can find the Laya center, and slip through to experience the higher nature. *This is the mechanics of equilibrium. Think of Mondrian's visual process of equilibrium as a visual version of stilling the vibrations of the senses. Mondrian was trying to express that in terms of art. I think that is what he meant by "point of perfect balance and of equilibrium." Having rhythm in a "no-time and non-repetition basis" is holding the stillness. Thus, he was creating symbols of Laya centers in his art and was quite Yogic in his approach to art, whether he knew it or not. *Rhythm that is non-symmetrical and non-time! I won't state Mondrian's work too much in detail because you probably studied it in more detail than I did. *I'm catching up. Now I can quote Mondrian! Mondrian stated that "(p)lastic art affirms that equilibrium can only be established through the balance of unequal but equivalent oppositions" and compared that with human life, that although we are in "disequilibrium", we are "based on equilibrium." *He was basically saying that we have the spiritual in us, which is "based on equilibrium." Our "disequilibrium" resulted from our being out of sync with our spiritual nature. His "balance of unequal but equivalent oppositions" means that the "unequal" is the pure opposites of each other, and the "equivalent oppositions" is the interrelatedness of the pure opposites. Being pure opposites, they change into the other, thereby creating equilibrium. Let me give an example of the theosophical idea of duality. Think of several dualities, life-death, chaos-order, male-female, good-evil. These are pure opposites. They are defined by the other. They cannot exist without the other. They have to interrelate. When these opposites cancel each other out, you have the pure state of Oneness, the place of no separation. This Oneness, which is the truth as opposed to the maya of separateness and opposition, is what is actually the state of all existence, you and me and the trees. This is Mondrian's equilibrium. Mondrian's later works is reminiscent of an asymmetrical mandala. The composition is off-balance and yet it is very static, a "dynamic equilibrium". He used his limited expressions of colors, tones and lines to express universality. He believed that art, like the process of exercises such as meditation, should be a path of speedier evolution for the artist. He wants "(t)he subjectivization of the universal in art (to) bring the universal downward on the one hand, while on the other it helps raise the individual toward the universal." (His writings quoted by Lipsey.) *I would suggest rereading his article The New Plastic in Painting. In it, he gave detailed accounts of how he would place lines, colors, etc., to create equilibrium. His work is like an asymmetrical mandala. His "subjectivization" is bringing the spiritual down to the individual, who can never truly comprehend the mystery of the elusive One. This "subjectivization" takes place through the concrete, practical, and material nature of painting. Although this is a material vehicle, through the process of equilibrium, he hopes to help raise the individual, clouded with the maya of separateness, to go toward the Universal, to the realization of the interconnectedness of all. Before we go on, let's define Laya-Center. 1. According to G. de Purucker's Occult Glossary: A laya-center is the mystical point where a thing disappears from one plane and passes onward to reappear on another plane. There is more definition, but that is the gist of it. To visualize it, think in terms of a sine wave that extends from highest spirit (where it vibrates very quickly) to densest matter (where it vibrates imperceptibly slow), and the laya centers between planes are located on a straight line that passes through the center. The center of the sine wave is the point of equilibrium. By quieting the vibrations of the body, the emotions, and the lower mind, the Yogi is able to go to the laya center to experience the higher nature. The laya center contains the potential of all frequencies. Think of that metaphorical image of the sine wave again. Suppose you were to look at the sine wave from one of its ends, like looking into a cone, you would see a line with a point in the center of it (the laya center, center of equilibrium). That's the center to all frequencies, a common point for all the planes of existence (physical, astral, mental, etc.). Since this is a point of stasis, it is a common doorway to all the planes. Which plane you try to reach depends on your ability to attune to its frequency. By creating ways to find a point of equilibrium, Mondrian was making doorways through which the transcendant universal can come through. This is a glimpse at the theory of the occult art and science of mandala making. It is ritual art making at it's best and has been practiced by aspirants for centuries. We say asymmetrical mandalas because traditionally mandalas have taken on forms of bilateral symmetry (i.e. Tibetan Buddhist, tantric or Native American religious paintings). While functionally the same, Mondrian chose to express the theme of a laya center through asymmetric means. As you well know, he did that through his arrangements of colors, tones, and lines. *Mechanics of equilibrium, laya centers and planes. The bulk of the Secret Doctrine is on evolution, and evolution through different planes of existence. We can get into detailed discussion of the evolution of the Monad (the immortal part of us which reincarnates), but that would be doing a book report on the Secret Doctrine. I don't think you want to do that. Basically, by helping individuals contact their spiritual, Mondrian will also be helping them to evolve to higher planes of existence in the long run, and ultimately to Nirvana. You may also want to look up books on mandalas. There is one, Mystery of Mandalas by Heita Copony, The Theosophical Publishing House, ISBN 0-8356-0649-X. Let me quote what is written on p.3 and you can see the relation to Mondrian's work: "The mandala in its entire expression refers to dimensions beyond outer appearances. Here human experience of being and intuition come together and something unspeakable is expressed in an image that can be perceived by the senses. We may also understand the mandala as a model of principles of reality, of which humanity is a part, of an order of the cosmos projected into three-dimensional space. Just as unimaginable worlds of other dimensions unfold beyond the world of space and time in which we mortals live, so the mandala's statement and levels of meaning are multidimensional and often full of paradox. On one hand, for example, the mandala is an image of humans in the limitations of space and time. On the other hand, it leads from the human realm to the cosmic and spiritual and joins the two levels. So it is personal and suprapersonal at the same time-microcosm and macrocosm, spirit and matter, the finite and the infinite pervading each other." Now, to me, that seems a whole lot like what Mondrian was trying to do. In studying mandalas, you can see that Mondrian's work is basically an asymmetrical modernist mandala. *I hope this helps clarify our discussion on Mondrian. I think this is a much better take than our digressing to Hegel. Hegel may have influenced theosophical thought, but Mondrian is more a theosophist than a Hegelian. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:08:06 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: To Eiichi Message-ID: Hi Eiichi, After I read Mondrian's work and realized what he was getting at, I saw how other writer's analyses of Mondrian's work paled in comparison. The reason? These people were not theosophists! They tried to explain his work in their language and ended up with statements more complicated than Mondrian's intention. Of course, Mondrian's writing seemed simple to me because I already know some of the theosophical concepts. Now, I am absolutely certain that Mondrian is a theosophist through and through. I would say he's a theosophist who paints, and not a painter who's dabbling in theosophy. In every single of his statements, I see a theosophist thinking. And I see a theosophist being influenced by the art concepts of his age. Namaste, Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 01:56:48 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: WELCOME 107 Message-ID: THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL welcomes Ron Smith! (Canada) Persoanl e-mail welcomes to: smithrp@nb.sympatico.ca Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk