From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:45:01 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Masters revealed Message-ID: <199805300545.JAA02316@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hi, mr. Johnson! J> Glad you removed the uglier parts. It's a normal practice here in FidoNet first to write messages and then read them before sending for some censorship. There are moderators in Fidonet echoareas who could punish those who aren't polite. But sometimes I hurry & forget to do that. If there was moderator he would long ago excommunicate us for off-topic :) J> As for my copyright Well, everything's clear, so let's better discuss the masters. Did you really insist that Morya and maharaja of Kashmir are the same person? Or mr. Caldwell and other people like him have mispresented your opinion? With salut, Konstantin Zaitzev aka Kay Ziatz Nonsense BBS: http://www.chat.ru/~ziatz From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:34:20 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Message Traffic Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980531163420.00957950@mail.eden.com> Hi, is there anyone who is subscribed to nl-l? What is the May traffic count? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:14:40 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Mondrian Message-ID: Hi Eiichi, Congratulations on your conversion to Ph.D! I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I had a mental block at the thought of having to figure out where my sources are, and using quotations. It's easier to dig through my mental file than to dig through the library. Also, it's much more fun to go off on a tangent in my mind rather than follow by the book. I'm going to back far away from Hegel. Both you and I seemed to have gotten caught up in the Hegel virus and away from the main topic of Mondrian's idea of rhythm. I'm going to focus mostly on Mondrian and theosophical sources. To continue our discussion this time with sources... To understand Mondrian's rhythm, I'm going to first briefly discuss the theosophical idea of duality, which can be found in the Stanzas of the Secret Doctrine I. Stanza I and II describes the unmanifestation and potential of all things. The Eternal Parent lies asleep, containing within the origin of all things. "The last vibration of the seventh eternity thrills through infinitude", and an awakening occurs.1 Separation takes place, Mother-Father, Subjectivity-Objectivity, Chaos-Order. From the stress of being pulled apart against their mutual desire for each other, the Son is born. It can be said that the Son is the psychic projection of the tension of the Cosmic Mind. When the internal tension is great, it results in outside projection. This separation is only illusory, and this outside projection is still the Mother-Father duality. The "outsideness" is illusory. Hence the frequent referral to the process as the "dreaming." >From a book that I find useful in interpreting the Stanzas, several conclusions make sense to me. In Stanza III, 4, "the three (triangle) fall into the four (quaternary)..." The triangle is the Mother, Father, and their relationship. The fourth is the Son, the mayavic construct, the illusion of external reality. Note that throughout the Stanzas, the emphasis on duality (the relationship) is important. It is through relationship or to be more precise, interrelatedness, that manifestation occurs. This link is the cause of all external manifestation, of the maya of externality and separation. Thus our whole external and internal experience is the result of the "radiant essence becom(ing) seven inside, seven outside." The "seven inside" (our inner environment) and the "seven outside" (our outside environment) is the interplay of the "three" and the "four." This will help you to understand Mondrian's idea of duality and relationship, and their relation to universality.2 According to the Random House College Dictionary, revised 1980, rhythm is the "movement or procedure with uniform or patterned recurrence of a beat, accent, or the like." This is natural rhythm, rhythm familiar to our mayavic world. This suggests symmetry, which suggests separation. In some cases, this also suggests time. Separation and time are illusions. To Mondrian, rhythm should be an internal rhythm and not the natural repetition that we are familiar with. "Individuality typically manifests the law of repetition, which is nature's rhythm, as law characterized by symmetry. Symmetry or regularity emphasizes the separateness of things and therefore has no place in the plastic expression of the universal as universal." Naturalistic art emphasizes this rhythm. To counteract this, Mondrian composed his paintings in ways that would ultimately destroy naturalistic rhythm. He changed this symmetry to equilibrium, by using the relationship of duality. He wants to express "relationships that change each opposite into the other." How do opposites change into each other? Because they are known through each other. Just as everything is created through a duality, nothing exists without its opposite. Mondrian expressed this in his paintings through opposition of "position and size," and other pure opposites. "(I)t is no longer a sequence but is plastic unity. Thus it renders more strongly the cosmic rhythm that flows through all things." This is the unity of opposites and of interrelatedness. Pure opposites cancel each other out. Thus, the expiring of natural form, and the birth of the spirit. This is the destruction of the mayavic manifestation, the cancelling of opposites into the Universal.3 I could add more about rhythm, but that would be outside the bounds of sticking with Mondrian's writing. This is a very interesting topic, and we could have many more offshoots, as you have already discovered based on my past talks regarding laya centers and planes. Namaste, Thoa :o) P.S. The reason why you were not able to find the Mondrian quotations in my last post was that it came from another book. Mondrian: Natural Reality and Abstract Reality. Translated by Martin S. James. 1 The Secret Doctrine I, p.62, Stanza III. Helena Blavatsky, verbatim with the original edition, 1888. Theosophical University Press. 2 Man, the Measure of All Things, p. 119. Sri Krishna Prem and Sri Madhava Ashish. Theosophical Publishing House. SBN: 8356-0006-8 3 The New Art-The New Life, The Collected Writings of Piet Mondrian. The New Plastic in Painting (1917), p.40. Da Capo Press, NY. ISBN 0-306-80508-1. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:50:22 -0400 From: John E Mead Subject: Corrected By-Laws of the Florice Tanner Foundation Message-ID: <01IXLPQ2L3PQ95ON5O@InfoAve.Net> hi - I got the corrected revision now and am forwarding as promised. peace - john e. mead ===================================================== FLORICE TANNER FOUNDATION BY-LAWS (DATE - 2ND DRAFT 24 MAY 1998) ARTICLE I. PURPOSE This Foundation is organized to further the three objects of The Theosophical Society in America and, through its work, to honor its principal benefactor, Florice Tanner. Specifically, it is to provide funds to disseminate theosophy, with a focus of activity in the southeastern States. ARTICLE II. BOARD OF DIRECTORS Section 1. BOARD DEFINED: The Foundation shall have a Board of Directors consisting of persons who are members in good standing of The Theosophical Society in America and who are active in the work of the Society. Initially, the Board shall consist of six Directors, but shall be reduced to five whenever one Director leaves. In addition to these, the Board shall include the National President of The Theosophical Society in America as an ex-officio member. Section 2. TERM: Directors shall serve for a term of five years beginning on January 1st, with initial rotation as provided in the minutes of the first meeting in which these by-laws are adopted. If a Director's position becomes vacant for any reason before expiration of that Director's term, a replacement shall be appointed to fill the position for the remainder of the term as provided in Section 3. Directors may succeed themselves. Section 3. METHOD OF APPOINTMENT: New and replacement Directors shall be appointed by the remaining members of the Board who have terms continuing beyond the date of appointment for the position being filled. First consideration for appointment of Directors shall be given to those in elected positions representing members of The Theosophical Society in America in the southeastern States. Section 4. DUTIES: Duties of the Board shall include the following: A. To formulate general policies for the operation of the Foundation. A simple majority of the Board shall be sufficient for approval of all actions except amendments to these by-laws (see ARTICLE IV, AMENDMENTS). B. To distribute funds generated by the Foundation for projects or activities in consonance with Article I. C. To hold meetings annually and at such other times as deemed necessary by the Chairperson or a majority of the members of the Board. Section 5. OFFICERS: Officers of the Foundation shall be elected by the Board of Directors from among themselves. The Officers, with their duties are as follows: A. Chairperson: The Chairperson shall be the Executive Officer of the Board and shall, in consultation with the other Directors, have general supervision, direction, and control of the business affairs of the Foundation. The Chairperson shall normally preside at all meetings, but may appoint another to serve in his or her place from time to time as necessary. The Chairperson shall plan and promote a financial program for the long-term operation of the Foundation, which plan shall be subject to approval by the Board. B. Secretary: The Secretary shall keep a file of records and of minutes of all meetings. The Board shall provide guidance as to what records shall be kept for long term and for how long. The Secretary shall handle correspondence as directed by the Chairperson. C. Treasurer: The Treasurer shall provide regular statements of income and expenses as the Board directs, including endowment fund status, and account balances with all banks or other institutions where assets are invested, including the financial institution name, address, account numbers, and maturity dates of deposits as applicable. Statements from all financial institutions shall be reconciled upon receipt. All Treasurer reports and records shall include or give the location of source documents as the Board directs. An operating cash fund shall be accessible to the Chairperson and the Treasurer. The Treasurer shall immediately report to the Board any difficulty encountered in obtaining statements of account balances from financial institutions, the keeping of records, or in any other financial matter. The Treasurer shall be responsible for filing any applicable tax forms. D. Others: Other officers may be designated to perform duties as defined by the Board. Section 6. REMOVAL OF BOARD MEMBERS: If a Director should be absent from or not participate in three successive meetings, or fail to meet the obligations of the position, the remaining Directors by unanimous vote may declare that position vacant. Section 7. FILLING VACANT OFFICES: Vacant offices shall be filled by appointment by the Chairperson until the next regular election of officers. The Secretary shall acquire the added authority and responsibilities of the Chairperson if at any time that office becomes untimely vacant. Section 8. QUORUM: For actions of the Board of Directors, the Chairperson shall attempt to poll any absent members by telephone, mail or other means, but if absent members cannot be reached, a simple majority shall constitute a quorum. ARTICLE III. FISCAL YEAR The fiscal year shall be the calendar year. ARTICLE IV. AMENDMENTS PROPOSAL AND ADOPTION: To be considered, amendments to these by-laws must be proposed by at least two Directors. A copy of proposed amendments must be provided to all Directors at least 30 days prior to the meeting at which the amendments shall be voted upon. Amendments must be approved by at least a 2/3 majority of the full Board of Directors. After adoption by the Board, amendments shall be submitted to the National Board of Directors of The Theosophical Society in America for review and approval by the National Judiciary Committee. Amendments shall not be valid until final approval by National Headquarters of The Theosophical Society in America. Amendments shall be signed and dated by the Chairperson and the Secretary, and made a part of the permanent record. Subsequent issues of the by-laws shall reflect the latest amendments. ARTICLE V. DISSOLUTION If for any reason the Florice Tanner Foundation should be dissolved, after expenses of dissolution have been paid or provided for, all records, property and assets shall be turned over to The Theosophical Society in America, Wheaton, Illinois, to be used in such manner as its National Board of Directors may consider to be in the best interests of the Society. Chairperson Date Secretary Date From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:19:50 -0700 From: Caldwell/Graye Subject: Re: New Web site - Blavatsky's Alleged Untruths Message-ID: <356ED216.106A@azstarnet.com> W. Dallas TenBroeck wrote: > > May 28th 1998 > > Dear Daniel, Carson, and other friends concerned: > > I note the opening of the new Web-Site . > > Perhaps it might be well to open another for the accumulating of > evidence of the things that HPB said which have been found to be > accurate or true, and assess their relative value. > > I believe that Carson Reed in New York on the "Blavatsky.net" has > a section devoted to the noting of the evidence of accuracy and > prophecy in HPB's writings. > > As I said, the arguments may be interminable. > > I really have very little to add to this. Daniel Caldwell responds: Dallas, I believe you were the one who challenged Paul Johnson and others to present examples of what they considered HPB's "untruths". They have done so and I have put some of their statements on the new Web Site at http://www.azstarnet.com/~blafoun/untruths.htm Anyone including you can respond with more facts, other information, new insights, etc. to prove or disprove these alleged "untruths". Or at the very least to shed MORE light on these subjects. Anyone who is truly seeking the "truth" can benefit from such an approach. Are we seekers of truth? Are we willing to grapple with these issues, ask serious questions not only of the other side, but about our OWN thinking? Honest and open inquiry and discussion of these "controversial" subjects may actually led in some cases to a resolution. For example, Jerry S. was willing to concede that "devachan" was not some madeup word by HPB but that it is a true Tibetan word. I hope various theosophists will send OTHER examples of alleged "untruths" by Mme. Blavasky as well as responses to some of these "untruths". The Web Site will serve as a public depository for opinion and information on all sides of these recurring controversial issues. "Negative", "positive" and neutral information can be provided on this site. I do hope that Blavatsky students will take the time and effort to study this material and post relevant information, insights, etc. If some students feel these "untruths" are misleading or present HPB in a "negative" light, etc., then PLEASE, PLEASE be motivated to present the "other" side. Show the missing links in the "untruth". Make a contribution to this public forum at http://www.azstarnet.com/~blafoun/untruths.htm Daniel Caldwell From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:34:28 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Justification Message-ID: <746fcea4.356ce955@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-27 20:19:54 EDT, you write: >At last we are getting back to *real* theosophy. I'm not kidding - >study the history! > >Alan I know. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:44:51 -0400 From: John E Mead Subject: Tanner Trust creation (formerly Stil-Light) Message-ID: <01IXKFFP5NEI90OEOQ@InfoAve.Net> hi - as a member of the board of Stil-Light (a public Corp.), now called the Tanner Trust, I wanted to obtain feedback from the theosophical community regarding the new proposed by-laws which were created at Lake Junaleska, SC during the Mid-South Federation meeting of the TSA. I was not able to attend the board meeting due to financial considerations. However, I did send to the board members my view that unless the new by-laws specified some regionally democratic procedure which included the TSA members, that my vote on ratification of the new by-laws was 'NO'. The board members present were: Carol Ward (President) -- with 1 Proxy to her, from board member Gabe Lambiase Miles Standish (Secretary) at the meeting the board was extended to include: Lewis Lucas Betty Bland. the following proposed by-laws were the product of the meeting. It should be noted that this is a draft document. However, I believe it does reflect what appears to be the blatant creation of a classic oligarchy. It is because I am devoted to the three objects of the TSA, that I submit this for feedback from the general theosophical community(s). I will not be held morally responsible for what appears to me as an attempt to seize control of the assets which were graciously left to Stil-Light by the late Florice Tanner. the following is the current by-laws proposal I recently received from the meeting held at Lake Junaluska. ========================================================== FLORICE TANNER FOUNDATION BY-LAWS (DATE) ARTICLE I. PURPOSE This Foundation is organized to further the three objects of The Theosophical Society. Specifically, it is to provide funds to disseminate theosophy in but not limited to the Southeast District of The Theosophical Society in America. ARTICLE II. MEMBERSHIP The membership shall consist of a Board of Directors. ARTICLE III. BOARD OF DIRECTORS Section 1. BOARD DEFINED: The Foundation shall have a Board of Directors consisting of seven persons who are members in good standing of The Theosophical Society in America and who are active in the work of the Society. In addition to these seven, the Board shall include the National President of The Theosophical Society in America as an ex-officio member. Section 2. TERM: Directors shall serve for a term of five years beginning on June 1st, with initial rotation as provided in the minutes of the first meeting following adoption of these by-laws. If a Director's position becomes vacant for any reason before expiration of that Director's term, a replacement shall be appointed to fill the position for the remainder of the term. Directors may succeed themselves. Section 3. METHOD OF APPOINTMENT: New Directors shall be appointed by the remaining members of the Board who have terms continuing beyond the date of appointment of the new Director. First consideration for appointment of new Board members shall be given to those in elected positions representing members in the Southeast District of the Theosophical Society in America, especially Federation and Branch presidents, and the Southeast Director. Section 4. DUTIES: Duties of the Board shall include the following: A. To formulate general policies for the operation of the Foundation. B. To distribute funds generated by the Foundation through a grant-making procedure. C. To hold meetings annually and at such other times as deemed necessary by the Chairperson or a majority of the members of the Board. Section 5. OFFICERS: Officers of the Foundation shall be elected by the Board of Directors from among themselves. The Officers, with their duties are as follows: A. Chairperson: The Chairperson shall be the Executive Officer of the Board and shall, in consultation with the other Directors, have general supervision, direction, and control of the business affairs of the Foundation. The Chairperson presides at all meetings. The Chairperson shall plan and promote a financial program for the long-term operation of the Foundation. B. Secretary: The Secretary shall keep a book of records and of minutes of all meetings. The Secretary's official records shall include both current and long-term important documents. The Board shall provide guidance as to what records shall be kept for long term and for how long. The Secretary shall handle the correspondence as directed by the Chairperson. C. Treasurer: The Treasurer shall prepare or otherwise produce regular statements of income and expenses as the Board directs, including endowment fund status, and account balances with all banks or other institutions where assets are invested. Reports shall include the financial institution name, address, account numbers, and maturity dates of any time deposits as applicable. Statements from all financial institutions shall be reconciled upon receipt. All Treasurer reports and records shall include or give the location of source documents as the Board directs. An operating cash fund shall be accessible to the Chairperson and the Treasurer. The Treasurer shall immediately report to the Board any difficulty encountered in obtaining statements of account balances from financial institutions, the keeping of records, or in any other financial matter. Section 6. REMOVAL OF BOARD MEMBERS: If a Board Member should be absent from or not participate in three successive meetings, the remaining Board Members may declare that position vacant. Section 7. VACANT OFFICES: Vacant offices shall be filled by appointment by the Chairperson until the next regular election of officers. The Secretary shall acquire the added authority and responsibilities of the Chairperson if at any time that office becomes untimely vacant. Section 8. QUORUM: For actions of the Board of Directors, the Chairperson shall attempt to poll any absent members by telephone, mail or other means, but if absent members cannot be reached, a simple majority shall constitute a quorum. ARTICLE IV. FISCAL YEAR The fiscal year shall be the calendar year. ARTICLE V. AMENDMENTS Section 1. PROPOSAL AND ADOPTION: To be considered, amendments to these by-laws must be proposed by at least two members of the Board. Amendments must be approved by at least a 2/3 vote of the full Board of Directors. After adoption by the Board, amendments shall be submitted to the National Board of Directors of The Theosophical Society in America for review and approval by the National Judiciary Committee. Amendments shall not be valid until final approval by National Headquarters of The Theosophical Society in America. Amendments shall be signed and dated by the Chairperson and the Secretary, and made a part of the permanent record. Subsequent issues of the by-laws shall reflect the latest amendments. ARTICLE VI. DISSOLUTION If for any reason the Florice Tanner Foundation should be dissolved, after expenses of dissolution have been paid or provided for, all records, property and assets shall be turned over to The Theosophical Society in America, Wheaton, Illinois, to be used in such manner as its National Board of Directors may consider to be in the best interests of the Society. Chairperson Date Secretary Date From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:36:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Copyright and my books Message-ID: <199805281836.OAA08078@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> Dear Kay, Glad you removed the uglier parts. As for my copyright situation, Bart has it about right. Note that the copyright I held/hold was for In Search of the Masters, a long (188,000 words) and unfocused book which was essentially a progress report of my research up to that point. I wouldn't want to be judged by it, and I wouldn't want my ideas to be digested in that form now that two more polished books are available. About half of each of the two SUNY books is taken from ISM, and about half of each of them is new. When I got a contract for The Masters Revealed, it was with the understanding that I would not compete with my publisher by continuing to sell the earlier self-published book. Later I signed a contract giving SUNY full control over electronic publication. This has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with legality. Since you seem so interested in my finances, my total royalties for the SUNY books are just about equal to my losses from self-publication. Net gain, zero. Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:30:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John E Mead InfoAvenue Operations Subject: Tanner Trust By-Laws Message-ID: <01IXL05TJ7YA91X7I8@InfoAve.Net> hi - I have been informed by the secretary that the by-laws I distributed were *NOT* the most recent version. I should have the newest edition by tomorrow. I hope this is good news, in that some of the difficulties I had with the prior one may be now eliminated. I hope I will be able to smear egg on my face and retract the label of 'oligarchy'... :-) so... it is probably wise to wait and send any input after tomorrow's update! peace - john e. mead From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:22:05 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Justification Message-ID: Chuckie: >One of the things you learn when you write just about anything is that there >are always going to be those who are mortally offended by the mere fact that >you put the ideas into words. There is no reasoning with such folk and the >only way to deal with them is A: to ignore them and B: to satirize them in the >next book. Eventually they get the message and shut up. C: give them a big thpfffftttttttttttttttttt!!!!! (or you could just moon them) Thoa, the Raspberrian :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:26:45 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Ethics, re: copyrighted material Message-ID: <199805271726.VAA03739@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hi Bart & Alexis! A> perfectly correct, Paul fully deserves his royalties. Paul's book is a A> fresh wind bringing in clean air which is something Theosophy has long Can the historical research, though very profound, be a fresh wind-like? Or you mean that it has blown off the masters a thick layer of dust? ;) B> people from what used to be the Soviet Union, and many immigrants from B> that area, do not have an understanding of copyright issues. Maybe I don't fully understand the details but in general I know what copyright is. The purpose of my request was to make sure that the book is commercial. When the book was originally written, Paul owned the copyright. So there might be two reasons which prevent placing that book on the Web: 1) He sold that (c) to another person or organization; 2) He keeps (c) but don't wanna lose money which he can obtain in future. Really, theosophy "cannot be bought or sold" and the price only has to recover the cost of bringing out. Indeed, Blavatsky got some royalities but she spent them all for needs of the TS. She wrote other articles for Russian magazines (these weren't theosophical but rather political) and used that income for her everyday life. She had also ink factory & other financial sources to live from. So I presumed - wasn't is the way of obtaining money for theosophical work? Some religious & theosophical organizations put their materials on the web in order to make them available for everyone. Of course, if (c) is already sold to someone it would be a (c) law violation but I see no obstacles if Paul really owns it. Dear Bart, if it was a cookbook, "How to get rich", "How to decrease weight" or something like that i'd readily accept all yr. argunemts. A> been dealing with people from Communist countries for many years, they A> are all entirely innocent about many things, ethics among them. Marx- A> ism did some terrible things to the simple concept of human decency. Oh, I see there in US you have so much ethics that you could easily export it to 3rd world countries. Though western "ethics" doesn't help to settle the relations between people. You have probably heard about the schoolboy who shoot down his parents & hurt several people in the school week ago. Such cases are sometimes happening in US but are extremely rare in countries not acqainted with "ethics". "Decency" here seems to me a very correct word. The communist rule wasn't a pleasant thing & I shouldn't argee to live in the "socialist country" again but it has taught people some things which are sometimes hard to reach - as unattachment, regarding nothing as "yours", etc. But it isn't an eastern mentality, neither. Some researchers say that there's 3 types of societies: East, West & "Empire". Besides Russia, the other example of "empire" was ancient Egypt. They say that societies sometimes may migrate from one type to another. As to marxism, it has nothing to do with the ethics of our people. Marxism is merely a theory about economy of capitalism. Marx had never created an economical theory of communism. What Lenin did, it was against Marx's principles. According to Marx, the revolution should first took place in most developed capitalist countries. Marxism can be true or wrong but it doesn't mean a thing in this connection. The people you have met probably left USSR about 10 years ago, so some of them are really ingorant about basics of capitalism. And even more ignorant they are about the russian life today. Solzhenitzin (a dissident writer, you've probably heard about him) after returning from 30 years of emigration looks like he just fell from the moon. A> But my complaint about Mr.. Zeitzev's actions had more to do with his A> demand that Paul justify himself than with his request that Paul post his A> book to the Internet....Neither Paul nor anyone else has any obligation to A> justify themselves to someone who may disagree with them. Perhaps this is A> simply a problem which results from Mr.. Zeitzev's weak comprehension of A> the English language, but it is unacceptable all the same. Maybe so. What is "justify"? To prove that the things which someone incriminates to you, are untrue, i think. Everyone who was slandered should be justified. HPB for example. A> IT CAN HURT OTHERS TOO!!! ;) Sorry for my letter isn't very connected. It was twice larger but I've removed the most dubious expressions which might hurt someone most badly. So some gaps arised. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:50:34 EDT From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Justification Message-ID: <7a5d65c8.356c526c@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-27 01:23:35 EDT, you write: >C: give them a big thpfffftttttttttttttttttt!!!!! >(or you could just moon them) > >Thoa, the Raspberrian :o) > > Done that too. I have sign in my office that says, "God created critics so we would have someone to ignore." Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:08:26 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Ethics, re: copyrighted material Message-ID: <356C64AA.A8183FC7@sprynet.com> K. Zaitzev wrote: > B> people from what used to be the Soviet Union, and many immigrants from > B> that area, do not have an understanding of copyright issues. > > Maybe I don't fully understand the details but in general I know > what copyright is. However, what I was talking about was the details. For example, when working with ex-Soviets using pirated software, they would tell me that it didn't hurt anybody because they would not have bought the software, and they were checking it for viruses. In other words, they felt that because the karma wasn't instantly returned, none was created. Note that in order to get out of the Soviet Union in the first place, they had to circumvent a lot of unfair and illogical laws, so they just considered these to be more of the same. Regardless of who owns the copyright, Paul made a deal with a publisher to publish his book. The publisher assumed a financial risk in order to do so. Even if the publisher were not interested in making a profit, they would still need to make enough money from the successful books to pay for the unsuccessful ones. By publishing his book on the Web, or though any other means, Paul would be at the very least breaking his word to the publisher, which would cause the publisher to be more careful in choosing clients, which would keep potential authors from being able to publish their books. I assume that your unfamiliarity with the details of copyright law would keep you from realizing this kind of effect could happen. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:14:43 From: ESTELA LUNA Subject: Message-ID: <19980527211443.15889.qmail@www01.netaddress.usa.net> Hello This is a test ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:40:14 -0700 From: Caldwell/Graye Subject: A New Web Site: BLAVATSKY'S ALLEGED "UNTRUTHS" Message-ID: <356C964E.5087@azstarnet.com> A New Web Site: BLAVATSKY'S ALLEGED "UNTRUTHS" at: http://www.azstarnet.com/~blafoun/untruths.htm BLAVATSKY'S ALLEGED "UNTRUTHS" There is no religion, belief or opinion higher than the truth. A number of Theosophical students as well as other individuals have claimed that H.P. Blavatsky made various statements which could be called "untruths." K. Paul Johnson in his various books deals with some of these "untruths." Other individuals have also brought forth examples of what they consider "untruths" on the part of Madame Blavatsky. Dallas TenBroeck, a longtime student of Madame Blavatsky's life and works, has objected to these claims of "untruths." I quote a statement below from Mr. TenBroeck on this subject. This web page has been created with the specific aim of dealing in a fair and open way with the alleged "untruths" and their rebuttals or confirmations (if there are any). We encourage people interested in this subject to submit to this Web Site examples/confirmations/rebuttals of these alleged "untruths." Please send relevant items to blafoun@azstarnet.com Please sign your full name. All items including names of writers will be posted whether positive, negative or neutral. Also please post items to theos-talk@theosophy.com [If you are not a subscriber to Theos-Talk, send a message consisting of "subscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com] No controversy surrounding H.P. Blavatsky is considered "off limits" to this site. However, all contributors should fully document their assertions and be willing to share in some detail their reasoning and understanding for the various statements made. Serious and indepth discussion is desired; heated argument and name calling are discouraged. Please share what you know about these controversies with others. All participants are encouraged to make regular contributions to this forum.---Daniel H. Caldwell. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:33:57 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Justification Message-ID: Thoa Tran writes >C: give them a big thpfffftttttttttttttttttt!!!!! >(or you could just moon them) > >Thoa, the Raspberrian :o) At last we are getting back to *real* theosophy. I'm not kidding - study the history! Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:20:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1538 Message-ID: <199805261320.JAA13202@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> According to theos-l@vnet.net: Kay-- > > Isn't the best way to justify yourself to place the full text of > your book on the web for everyone could read it & judge oneself? > I've seen only critics or advertising. The best way to get sued by my own publisher! I have no right to do that, it's not "my" book any more. > > PJ> So it has been a minority of Theosophists who have attacked and > PJ> denounced the book, regarded it as anti-HPB, etc. But of course > PJ> who is most likely to create a website devoting to "debunking" a book? > > Blavatsky herself didn't attack most of that which was written agaist > her. So I glad that majority of theosophists are the real theosophists who > spend their time to more useful things, as she did. Kay, you're missing the point and apparently insisting, without having read them, that the books *are* "against her." I've told you THEY ARE NOT. Not in my intention, not in the perception of ANY readers outside the Theosophical movement, as best I can tell. And not in the perception of MOST readers within it, judging by reviews. PJ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:39:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Justification Message-ID: <199805261539.LAA29659@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> Thanks, Alexis, for your kind words about my books, and your sentiments about "justifying" oneself. There are so many assumptions behind the attacks people make, and I find that exploring those assumptions yields a lot of insight into the charges made. "Justifying oneself," which is what several people have demanded I do, presumes the acceptance of their authority as prosecutor, judge and jury. It assumes a win/lose adversarial approach to truth; anyone sincerely interested in win/win dialogue would ask for "explanation" rather than "justification." I gather that some folks feel that if my books are largely sound in their depiction of HPB, this causes themselves to "lose" something. Therefore for them to "win," "K. Paul Johnson" has to be made to "lose?" -- and thus the books have to be dismissed as incompetent, biased, sloppy, inaccurate, not worth reading, etc. It would seem that a belief system about HPB is behind the attacks, a belief system that some people and organizations have invested a lot of energy, time and money in promoting. But the proponents of that belief system are not honest enough to say to the reader, "I am offended by these books because they challenge my beliefs." Instead, they resolutely avoid anything that might raise such a question about their own subjectivity, since it would imply that their own conclusions might require some justification of their own. The bottom line, irrational though it may be, is usually this: "Anyone who says anything I don't like is obligated to justify him or herself to *my* satisfaction. I, on the other hand, am under no obligation to defend my own views to anyone." This kind of assumption makes it pretty hopeless for any productive dialogue to occur-- as I've learned after many wasted hours. Cheers, KPJ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:21:26 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Justification Message-ID: <118fb518.356b4e77@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-26 11:45:36 EDT, you write: > >The bottom line, irrational though it may be, is usually this: >"Anyone who says anything I don't like is obligated to justify >him or herself to *my* satisfaction. I, on the other >hand, am under no obligation to defend my own views to anyone." >This kind of assumption makes it pretty hopeless for any >productive dialogue to occur-- as I've learned after many wasted >hours. > >Cheers, >KPJ > > Took you long enough! :) One of the things you learn when you write just about anything is that there are always going to be those who are mortally offended by the mere fact that you put the ideas into words. There is no reasoning with such folk and the only way to deal with them is A: to ignore them and B: to satirize them in the next book. Eventually they get the message and shut up. In the meantime, welcome to the club. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:21:15 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Welcome 106 Message-ID: THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL welcomes Robert McLinton! Personal welcomes to: robert.mclinton@btinternet.com Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:53:56 -0700 From: "Alexis Dolgorukii" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1539 Message-ID: <000a01bd8788$5e53e3a0$f8ba2ccf@server1.wclynx.com> > I am certain that Mr. Zeitzev, coming from the ex-Soviet Union, made >his request as innocently as if an American wrote, "They don't sell your >book around here. If I mail you a check, can you send me a copy?" I >believe that he simply did not realize the copyright issues, and it was >not intended as a request to do something wrong. Comment from Alexis: Bart, I am absolutely certain that you are correct. For many reasons I have been dealing with people from Communist countries for many years, they are all entirely innocent about many things, ethics among them. Marxism did some terrible things to the simple concept of human decency. But my complaint about Mr.. Zeitzev's actions had more to do with his demand that Paul justify himself than with his request that Paul post his book to the Internet....Neither Paul nor anyone else has any obligation to justify themselves to someone who may disagree with them. Perhaps this is simply a problem which results from Mr.. Zeitzev's weak comprehension of the English language, but it is unacceptable all the same. Alexis Dolgorukii =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW CAN HURT YOU!!!! IT CAN HURT OTHERS TOO!!! The more you know, the harder it is to lie to you! The less you know, the easier it is to lie to you! Alexis Dolgorukii alexis@wclynx.com http://www.parascience.org From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:46:02 -0700 From: "Alexis Dolgorukii" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1538 Message-ID: <000601bd86d7$3eb853c0$e6ba2ccf@server1.wclynx.com> Re: Paul Johnson's Book Paul's book is a very good piece of work, and one which represents what an open and inquiring mind can accomplish with no help whatsoever. The one thing he doesn't need to do is "justify" it. It fully justifies itself. The only person who seems to feel Paul's book requires justification is K. Zeitzev and he has no particular standing from which to make such a demand. No one, in fact, ever has any standing from which to demand another person justify either themselves or their work. There is no reason whatsoever for him to post it in the internet so that people who won't spend the money for it to get it free. Here Chuck is perfectly correct, Paul fully deserves his royalties. Paul's book is a fresh wind bringing in clean air which is something Theosophy has long needed. Alexis From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:28:07 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Posting Copyrighted Materials Message-ID: <35683C87.14946F05@sprynet.com> Alexis Dolgorukii wrote: > Paul's book is a very good piece of work, and one which represents what an > open and inquiring mind can accomplish with no help whatsoever. The one > thing he doesn't need to do is "justify" it. It fully justifies itself. The > only person who seems to feel Paul's book requires justification is K. > Zeitzev and he has no particular standing from which to make such a demand. As a computer professional in New York City, I have come across a cultural phenomenon with which others may not be as familiar. In the Soviet Union, there was no such thing as copyright. As a result, most people from what used to be the Soviet Union, and many immigrants from that area, do not have an understanding of copyright issues. This is an issue in New York in companies that wish to keep their computers piracy-free. There were many computer programmers among immigrants from the Soviet Union who were willing to work much more cheaply than their U.S.-born counterparts, so many got hired. When I was a software auditor, I found that convincing the immigrants not to use pirated software was like trying to convince them to do the hokey pokey around the computer every 3 hours; they knew it was the law, but they did not understand any purpose behind it. I am certain that Mr. Zeitzev, coming from the ex-Soviet Union, made his request as innocently as if an American wrote, "They don't sell your book around here. If I mail you a check, can you send me a copy?" I believe that he simply did not realize the copyright issues, and it was not intended as a request to do something wrong. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:41:04 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Book Message-ID: <199805231741.VAA32510@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello! 21 May 1998 K. Paul Johnson wrote: PJ> what you have found on the Web about my books gives a very different PJ> impression than what I say about them, that's very true. Isn't the best way to justify yourself to place the full text of your book on the web for everyone could read it & judge oneself? I've seen only critics or advertising. PJ> So it has been a minority of Theosophists who have attacked and PJ> denounced the book, regarded it as anti-HPB, etc. But of course PJ> who is most likely to create a website devoting to "debunking" a book? Blavatsky herself didn't attack most of that which was written agaist her. So I glad that majority of theosophists are the real theosophists who spend their time to more useful things, as she did. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:47:23 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Book Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-23 13:49:11 EDT, you write: > Isn't the best way to justify yourself to place the full text of >your book on the web for everyone could read it & judge oneself? >I've seen only critics or advertising. > > Since when does Paul need to give up the small royalties he gets for his book so he can justify it? Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:13 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <8d2ad9bd.3565b572@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-21 20:05:06 EDT, you write: >Theosophy does not have a "set religious structure" nor is it merely the >philosophy involved with theology! > >May I suggest you follow some of the links on the Theosophy >International web page (see below) and read some of the literature >which can be located this way? And whatever you do, don't take what goes on on this list as being indicitive of all theosophists beliefs or behavior. We are a particularly obstreperous bunch here. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:30:27 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Kim R. asks WHAT IS THEOSOPHY Message-ID: <392634e7.3565b634@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-21 21:50:30 EDT, you write: > >"We respect every man's freedom of conscience and their spiritual >yearnings far too much to touch religious principles with our >propaganda. We fight a lot over the details, but this post was one of the best short explanations of Theosophy I've read in a long time. Bravo. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:32:18 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <3565B6A2.7365EE35@sprynet.com> Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > Theosophy is not a religion, it is a study of religion. I would prefer "the study of or search for the basis of religions, philosophies, and the sciences." Anybody else for a short definition? Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:48:35 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <3565BA73.6DAAE003@sprynet.com> Drpsionic wrote: > And whatever you do, don't take what goes on on this list as being indicitive > of all theosophists beliefs or behavior. We are a particularly obstreperous > bunch here. Who are you calling obstreperous?????????? Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:36:40 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Message-ID: <000201bd85d2$a3179520$03e78ccc@nwc.net> May 22nd 1998 May Dallas offer some more quotes drawn from Theosophical texts ? "Practical occultism is the lowest form of applied metaphysics...an occultist must not separate himself or anything else from the rest of creation or "non-creation" ... He must think of himself as an infinitesimal something, not even as an individual atom, but as part of the world-atoms as a whole. Everything from Spirit to the tiniest particle, is a part of the whole, at lest a link. Break a single link and all passes into annihilation, but, this is impossible..." HPB - "Transactions of the Blavatsky Lodge", p.138 "It is not necessary to be conscious of the progress one has made. We make a good deal of progress in our inner, hidden life, of which we are not at all conscious. It is best to go on with one's duty, and to refrain from this trying to take stock and measuring of progress. All of our progress is in the inner nature, and not in the physical where lives the brain ... The apparent physical progress is evanescent. As the Great Adepts live in [that plane which is also] the plane of our inner nature, it must follow that they might be actively helping every one of us --- and we, as physical brain men, not be conscious of it on this plane." (Answer to a friend by W.Q.Judge, W. Q. JUDGE ARTICLES, Vol. II, p. 505 "Man is a perfected animal, the vehicle of a fully developed Monad (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) self-conscious and deliberately following its own line of progress." HPB -- "Transactions..." p. 14 "...we should imitate the Great Brotherhood in its constant efforts to help Humanity. New ideas are projected among men and all good reforms are fostered. They offer to all men the truths of the Wisdom-Religion, leaving results to the Law [of karma] ... Our plain duty is to present the truths of Theosophy to all men, leaving it to them to accept or to reject, and to help all others to aspire to perfection..." W Q Judge, "Forum Answers", p. 7 "Only the homogeneous, the absolutely purified unalloyed spirit, can be reunited to the Deity, or "go to Brahma." HPB -- "Transactions", p. 139 "Every living creature, of whatever description, was, is, or will become a human being in one or another Manvantara." HPB -- Transactions, p. 23 "Maya is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers itself a Unit, separate from, and independent of, the One infinite and eternal SAT, or "be-ness" ... Not only we ourselves, but the whole visible and invisible universe, are only a temporary part of the one beginningless an endless WHOLE, or that which ever was, is, and will be." HPB -- Transactions, pp 31-2 '... the never manifested MONAD which lives in solitude and darkness, when the hour strikes it radiates from itself ONE, the first number. This number, descending, produces TWO, the second number. and TWO in its turn, produces THREE, forming a Triangle, the first complete geometrical figure in the world of form. It is the ideal or abstract triangle which becomes the POINT in the Mundane Egg, which, after gestation, and in the third remove, will start from the Egg to form the (second) Triangle. This is "Brahma-Vach-Viraj" [ Cause - Word - Will ] in the Hindu philosophy and "Kether-Chochmah-Binah" in the "Zohar." The First Manifested Logos if the "Potentia," the 'unrevealed Cause;' The Second, is the still latent 'Thought,' The Third, is the Demiurgos, the active Will, evolving from its universal Self the active effect, which in turn, becomes the "Cause" on a still lower plane." [ see SD I 130 ] HPB -- Transactions, p 83. These are offered in the hope that discussion will result, or corresponding and supplementary quotations will be found and brought for all of us to use. Dallas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:14:38 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <47298f65.356614ef@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-22 13:52:41 EDT, you write: > Who are you calling obstreperous?????????? > > Bart Lidofsky > > > US!!!!! Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:45:33 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: Bart Lidofsky writes >Drpsionic wrote: >> And whatever you do, don't take what goes on on this list as being indicitive >> of all theosophists beliefs or behavior. We are a particularly obstreperous >> bunch here. > > Who are you calling obstreperous?????????? > > Bart Lidofsky I think Chuck is using the Royal "we" here ... Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:44:25 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: SD 3rd Edition Message-ID: W. Dallas TenBroeck writes >Historically this happened soon after HPB's death in 1891, when >in 1893 the "Third and Revised Edition of the S D" was issued in >London. On proofing it with the original (1888) edition, over >40,000 unmarked alterations are to be detected. No statement was >made then that those changes had been made -- nor were they >marked. And in some cases the whole meaning is changed from the >original. Not altogether true: >From the Preface to the first edition: "The writer ... is fully prepared to take all the responsibility for what is contained in this work, and even to face the charge of having invented the whole of it. That it has many shortcomings she is fully aware ..." London, October 1888. ...*and* .... PREFACE TO THE THIRD AND REVISED EDITION. IN preparing this edition for the press, we have striven to correct minor points of detail in literary form, without touching at all more important matters. Had H. P. Blavatsky lived to issue the new edition, she would doubtless have corrected and enlarged it to a very considerable extent. That this is not done is one of the many minor losses caused by the one great loss. Awkward phrases, due to imperfect knowledge of English, have been corrected; most of the quotations have been verified, and exact references given - a work involving great labour, as the references in the previous editions were often very loose; a uniform system of transliteration for Sanskrit words has been adopted. Rejecting the form most favoured by Western Orientalists as being misleading to the general reader - we have given to the consonants not present in our English alphabet combinations that approximately express their sound- values, and we have carefully inserted quantities, wherever they occur, on the vowels. In a few instances we have incorporated notes in the text, but this has been very sparingly done, and only when they obviously formed part of it. We have added a copious Index for the assistance of students, and have bound it separately, so that reference to it may be facilitated. For the great labour in this we, and all students, are the debtors of Mr. A. J. Faulding. ANNIE BESANT. G. R. S. MEAD. LONDON, 1893. G.R.S. Mead was, for a time, HPB's *personal private sectretary* and the generosity of the inclusion of Annie Besant's name at the foot of the above is a tribute to his nature, for Mead was the scholar, not Besant; only Mead had the ability to follow, let alone facilitate the use of Sanskrit terms, and he had the greatest respect for the "Old Lady." R.A.Gilbert, respected TS historian tells us, "Mead also acted as H.P.B.'s private secretary and, although he was young and unknown, she trusted him absolutely." [from a recent Essay posted to theos-l] .. and Mead himself stated: "She handed over to me the charge of all her keys, of her mss., her writing desk and the nests of drawers in which she kept her most private papers. She further, "absolutely refused to be bothered with her letters, and made me take over her voluminous correspondence and that too without opening it first herself. She not only metaphorically, but sometimes actually, flung the offending missives at my head ! I accordingly had not only to read them but to answer them as best I could; for ... she would wax most wrathful and drive me out, whenever I pestered her to answer the most pressing correspondence or even to give me some idea of what to reply in her name." ["The Theosophical Review, Vol. XXXIV, April 15th, 1904]. R.A.Gilbert again: "He [Mead] was now one of the Society's foremost members. He had officiated at H.P.B.'s funeral in May 1891 (she had died on May 7th, in the arms of Laura Cooper who would later become Mead's wife), impressing Theosophists and non-theosophists alike. W.S. Ross (Saladin, of The Agnostic Journal) reported that Mead - "a young gentleman of refined features and much spirituelle of expression" - "read an impressive address impressively" in a "silvery voice [that] rose and fell in melancholy cadence." "The Theosophists, however, paid too little attention to Mead's words: "Much as we love and reverence our leader, our devotion to the work must not rest on the transient basis of affection for a personality, but on the solid foundation of a conviction that in Theosophy itself, and in it alone, are to be found those eternal spiritual principles of right thought, right speech and right action which are essential to the progress and harmony of mankind." "It was to be the cult of personality that led to the most damaging feuds within the society and that ultimately drove Mead from it." > >Unfortunately it is this "3rd and Revised Edition" that the Adyar >T S continues to print, and from it most of the translations into >foreign languages have been made. > >So you can understand the value of the ULT work, when in 1925 the >Original 1888 Edition of the S D was photographically issued by >the ULT, and students could contrast it with the altered edition >of 1893. Over the years, since then, the various "Theosophical >Publishing Houses" have been forced to reprint the Original 1888 >edition. Accuracy has been restored and made available again to >students. >From R.A. Gilbert again: "...the long awaited third volume of The Secret Doctrine, H.P.B.'s largest and most ambitious work, appeared - to the delight of most theosophists and the disapproval of Blavatsky fundamentalists. Mead and Annie Besant had issued the revised Third Edition of The Secret Doctrine in 1893, but Mead "refused to have anything to do whatever" with the third volume. He thought that the fragments of which it was composed were much inferior to the first two volumes, but did improve it by persuading Mrs. Besant to incorporate the Instructions of the Esoteric Section of the T.S. Revision of volumes I and II had been another matter; the text already existed and all that was needed was : "to correct minor points of detail in literary form, without touching at all more important matters," while "Awkward phrases, due to imperfect knowledge of English, have been corrected; most of the quotations have been verified, and exact references given ..." So ... what has been restored is the accuracy of the first *printing* (useful indeed for comparison) but not neccessarily the accuracy of all of its contents. There has surely been too much "polarization" of opinion in these matters, and it was the *scholar* and private secretary, G.R.S.Mead. who performed to most valuable service for the third edition of the SD, whilst also expressing his unhappiness at the issuance and content of the "third" volume so desired by Annie Besant, and regarding which he attempted at least a damage limitation exercise. To his dying day, Mead defended HPB's detractors, and upheld her integrity. Such a man, in his capacity as a scholar and editor, would never have wilfully distorted HPB's work, which, by her own admission, "... has many shortcomings." - shortcomings that the abilities recognized in Mead by HPB herself enabled him to revise her main work to such good effect. Alan Bain, 22nd May, 1998 --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:25:59 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: Kim Raymoure writes >Hi all! I've just joined this list and hope to learn a lot. > >I am very unfamiliar with Theosophy and have it presently included in a >list I'm compiling of world religion's. Is this appropriate? Theosophy is not a religion, it is a study of religion. > Included on >that list are agnosticism, atheism, and buddhism to name a few that do not >necessarily worship a specific deity. Does Theosophy have a set religious >structure or is it merely the philosophy involved with theology. Theosophy does not have a "set religious structure" nor is it merely the philosophy involved with theology! May I suggest you follow some of the links on the Theosophy International web page (see below) and read some of the literature which can be located this way? > >Help! Help! I'm in the dark! >Kim Sincerely, Alan Bain --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:07:09 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: Kim R. asks WHAT IS THEOSOPHY Message-ID: <003e01bd8522$b30874a0$03e78ccc@nwc.net> May 21st 1998 WHAT IS THEOSOPHY -- IS IT A RELIGION ? Dallas offers: Dear Kim: The word "theosophy" is one that Pythagoras (6th Cent BC) used originally: Theos (Deity) and Sophia (wisdom) or Theosophy. It claims to be of great antiquity, antedating the Greeks, and a fuller record of its lore has been preserved in libraries and secret crypts in central Asia. It is always in the custody of the Wise, The Sages, also sometimes called the Masters of Wisdom or the Great souls (the Mahatmas). For them, every country, race and nation is their concern. It consists of a continuing record-- a history--of the scientific, psychological and philosophical investigation of all phenomena and events in Nature, down the ages, and in every department. It starts with the basic proposition that: First, NATURE already contains everything. Two, the whole of nature runs by LAW and under Laws--our Science depends on this basic fact and on the concept that the ATOM is INDESTRUCTIBLE. Three, every single unit-being in Nature (the whole Universe, our Solar System, World, and every Mind also) is included in its purview. Four, Man's special function and place is to learn all he can about Nature, its Laws and the potential of his own evolutionary condition. It other words: What am I? How did I get here ? What am I to do ? Where am I going ? You may say, therefore, that it uses both a metaphysical and a physical base for its considerations. It seeks to demonstrate (and invite individual questioning into) the interplay between these two "extremes," which are really united into a harmonious and dynamic pattern -- called Life and living. The human mind (mental faculty when fully developed), is the focal point for this perception of reason and meaning in living. Humankind is apparently at the focal point of the two extremes, usually called "Spirit" and "Matter," and represents the evolution of INTELLIGENCE, or perception/knowledge. The capacity to perceive, to reason and to observe change, while remaining detached (as a Witness, or an Observer) from the events and phenomena, or the thoughts and emotions, that occur, and are being seen operating, is apparent. Only that which is immovable can clearly perceive the extent of "change." And can inquire into the reason for "change," and its potential 'goal.' Mankind is therefore viewed as the repository of Intelligence, of History and of the fruits of many aeons of investigation. The MIND represents the essential junction, the interplay, if you please, between "spirit-wisdom" and "matter-forms." It is the link of intelligence and is also to be seen as dual as thought-feeling, as wisdom-impulse. Evolution, generally, is of three conjoined levels in the Theosophical view: There is, First, the immovable "Observer" within -- said to be "one with the UNIVERSAL SPIRIT." There is, Second, the questing, investigating, planning, logical, remembering (and forgetting) Mind. And, Third, there is the developing sensitive instinctual physical form which man shares with animal nature. But that is not all, as it has links to the molecules and atoms of the plants and the minerals. In fact those links can be seen to extend through thought and emotion (as electro-magnetic forces) to the farthest limits of conceivable space. We, humans, are virtually at the center of "our universe." And, we have to recognize, that simultaneously, we "share it" with all the rest. So the First proposition of Theosophy: Universal Brotherhood becomes more logical. Theosophy is also philosophy, as in the search for meaning, it looks into the causes of every kind of phenomena. As a "religion" it is brotherhood--the brotherhood of the wise, and of all those who are seekers for the truth of things. Every ancient Nation has as part of its mythology the "creation" of mankind by a Wise Being -- some say "A God," or a group of "Gods." The attributes of the Godhead are not always the same, from religion to religion, but generally, they include: sagacity, (omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence) and the capacity to witness all experience, planning, work, and the establishing of the whole gamut of necessary beings that, working together in harmony, provides us with the universe and the world that surrounds us all now. Many modern day expressions of religion make exclusions or reserve adherence to special situations of birth, of belief, etc... Theosophy makes none of those. It is a study of the Universe and sees no barriers or special requirements anywhere. It invites close examination and the proving of those propositions and doctrines that it advances. It claims to be based on a complete history of observation and experience ( see THE SECRET DOCTRINE, (H.P.Blavatsky), Vol. 1, pp 272-3.). This is seen to be philosophically universal. Ancient races, such as India, China, Egypt, Greece, Scandinavia, the Chaldees, the Jews, the Incas and the Mayas, have a record of great and Wise men who came to help and to teach infant humanity. In India these are called the Mahatmas--the Great Souls. It is said of this group that they form a great Lodge of Adepts and its members never "die" --in other words their presence in the World is continuous, and they exist today as they did then, to assist mankind in its progress. But they do not make themselves known publicly as such an exhibition would limit the work that they do. The curious would make their lives intolerable. What is of importance is that it implies the perfectibility of every man, because of the innate link that we all have to the ONE SPIRIT. We can make that spirit shine forth in our lives and then we have the presence of a Jesus, a Buddha, a Krishna, or a Lao Tse. It also suggests that any one who chooses, can follow the "path to wisdom" of which they speak and trace the outline. Anyone can achieve what they have mastered. Wisdom is not to be patented, nor can one exclude others from it. Wisdom is the property of all. Hence the idea of a "Personal God" is not reasonable or tenable, as the whole of nature is under One Law, and this cannot be broken or bent by prayers or supplication if one has erred in its application. The rules of "right-livelihood" are known innately by all of us -- we call it the Conscience -- and this is in effect regardless of race, religion, or the time of one's birth. Life, as viewed by Theosophy is viewed as a great School, and every life-time spent is one of the "days" of that extended "class-room" work. The immortal spirit-mind of every woman or man is the "pupil," the Prophets, Sages and the great Teachers of every nation, past or present, are the professors and instructors to us all. Theosophy considers as basic facts the following: The Vast Universe is a UNIT, a whole, and is ruled by Laws of interaction. The "great" and the "small" (from the GALAXY to the ATOM), all is united under a single and ever operative set of laws that guarantee the existence and survival of every least aspect of life and being. Nothing ever "dies" or is discarded. The least "atom" is a living unit, and has in its eternal, ultimate being, the potentiality of becoming a human. It is intelligent, and our thoughts and feelings leave an impress that either assists or delays its progress on the many runged ladder of evolution. Within the visible, tangible physical that we all know, lies an energic pattern body, a kind of electro-magnetic lattice work, (of electro-magnetic matter--now suspected to be the "morpho-genetic field), on which the physical molecules arrange themselves, and within which the non-physical atoms play their many parts. The Atom, as the Universe, and, the Man as mind/consciousness are held to be immortal. All Nature provides a sensitive and reacting "class-room," it is INTELLIGENT, and ever progressing. WE are inescapably bound to all other beings in the World. Theosophy, unlike "religions" of this day, or of the past, is scientific to the extent that it encourages in humans: independence, thinking, and the exercise of free-will. It is philosophical because it relates evidence from many sources to give a holographic picture of actuality. It is not "linear," but rather it is all-inclusive of both time and space, and considers the existence of many more dimensions to space/time than we have hitherto identified. It posits BROTHERHOOD as the base for the interaction of all beings. LAW (named in Sanskrit KARMA) is universal and unalterable and invariable, not to be cajoled by prayer or petition. It can however be modified by setting into action by deliberate effort, counteracting causes to offset effects that are inevitable. The intelligent man, attentive, and awake to opportunity, does this consciously as he lives. DEITY (as a Spiritual base) is not a "Personal God" outside of manifestation, but is interior to and the base of all things. To that extent, if "God" is indeed omnipresent -- then Theosophy represents true "pantheism." It considers to be a demonstrable fact that there is an immortal and permanent 'speck of life' an intelligence present in every life-atom as in every human. All existing things are at their core IMMORTALS. In this regard the process of REINCARNATION for all human Intelligence is posited -- as the natural outcome of progressive increments of the experience of every life-time. "Death" is looked on as a prolonged sleep, during which the experiences of life are reviewed and built into the advancing character and capacity of the human Soul (mind) -- hence every child at birth shows distinct characteristics that are its own, and are the result (under Law-Karma) of its progress up to this time. As said above, each life modifies one's "karmic-account," moving the balance forward or back. EVOLUTION is not only of the physical form, but also of the mind. Wisdom is the result of thought, and the observation of the results of actions that are based either on thought or on emotion. Physical evolution as perceived progressively, is the evolution and individualization of CONSCIOUSNESS working through Forms, and this is a universal process. The progression broadly, is from the intelligence of the minerals, through the plants, to the animals. In animals it flowers as "Instinct." And, in mind, it is Mind. At a certain point of each great planetary Life-cycle ( it is also posited that Worlds, like humans, reincarnate periodically and furnish for the evolution of all creatures concerned with them a continuing basis for living and experiencing). The individualization of intelligence in animals is touched, when it reaches a certain point of concentration by a "Mind" Being, whose duty it is to enlighten it. This experience is in natural progression with development that offers to every such advanced intelligence the opportunity of THINKING. It is an individualization, a positive link in the developing intelligence of the physical line of evolution to the "spiritual" or "Wisdom/Mind" aspect of nature, and, theosophy teaches that on occasion some of the Illuminated and wise Minds may take up residence in a vehicle of human flesh and matter when the cycle is right for humanity to receive further enlightenment. Hence, in mankind we find a duality of consciousness. In our focus of awareness are two opposite forces: one is Instinct, and the other is Mind. These two merged, offer all the vast range of human consciousness -- from "wants and desires" to "needs and necessities." This plane of existence (the human family) is the arena of self-consciousness and of freedom of choice. Obviously this does not cover the whole field of explanation as to what Theosophy is or does. It a universal field of thinking and considers all aspects of living, as well as the total history of the Universe in evolution. It hods that Mankind is a most essential part of the total, since the Family of Man represents, as a whole, the forum for a development of awareness, of consciousness, that will eventually embrace every aspect of the whole Universe. And this is wisdom embodied in a living mind. It THEREFORE holds that there are in the Family of Man, those who have graduated in the past from similar but far older schools of experience. They are the "Professors" in this School of Living -- which is our world taken as a whole. As in a vast university they preserve a record of past research. Occasionally they, like visiting professors, step into the limelight of civilization. And history records the work and living of a superior human whose knowledge, moral and ethical teachings demonstrate the unity of all life and of all knowledge in a practical way. Of these a list could include such Great Figures of Humanity as Krishna and Gautama Buddha of India, Pythagoras and Plato of Greece, the Ancient Priest-Kings and Hierophants of Egypt, Lao Tse and Confucius of China; Solomon, Moses, and Jesus to the Jews; and more recently Iamblichus, Plotinus, Plutarch, the ancient fraternity of Masons (the Builders), the Gnostics, the "Brothers of Light," the "Fire-Philosophers," and the Sufis; the Alchemists, the Florentine Academy of Pico della Mirandola, Jacob Boehme, Paracelsus, St. Germain, the Rosicrucians, and many other members of the "secret societies" of the Medieval times of our history, and, latest of all, Mme. H.P.Blavatsky -- to whom we owe a gathering up of all these scattered threads of history and belief. Her books ISIS UNVEILED, and THE SECRET DOCTRINE offer such a survey of history and encompass the records of the "creation"of our world, and the "evolution" of mankind. If the list of great Teachers is long, it is actually quite short in reality and in comparison to actuality. The actuality is that none of these great Humans has ever "died," or left humanity -- but rather that they continue, unknown and unperceived, to work with us, and to keep the great ideas of the immortality and the perfectibility of Man-Minds alive. Their work is to keep the "Beacon-light" of Truth lit and flashing, showing those who seek that Wisdom is ever present, and can be found. That to attain to complete WISDOM, one must become absolutely harmless to all other beings -- hence one has to adopt certain disciplines of self-control, of practical ethics in daily life. Mme. Blavatsky has offered us a key to this concept in her little gem of a book titled THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE. Brotherhood is the first great step to adopt and to learn the implications of. Then one begins to realize that Law operates everywhere. Then, our progress is seen to be a voluntary practice of those aspects of that Law which we UNDERSTAND and can appreciate. Further progress comes from careful probing of all information that comes to our attention with the power resident in our minds. We accept no "authorities." We have to KNOW FOR OURSELVES. This is the line of "common-sense." It is a sense that is common, and is unrestricted. It is man's highest faculty -- the power to bring the vision Splendid of Truth into daily use in himself. In short this is the pat to wisdom and discrimination. Mme. Blavatsky once wrote to a friend: "We respect every man's freedom of conscience and their spiritual yearnings far too much to touch religious principles with our propaganda. Every human being, who respects himself, and thinks, has a Holy of Holies of his own, for which we Theosophists ask respect. Our business concerns philosophy, morals, and science alone. We ask for truth in everything; our object is the realization of the spiritual perfectibility possible to man: the broadening of his knowledge, the exercising of the powers of his soul, of all the psychical sides of his being. Our theosophical brotherhood must strive after the ideal of general brotherhood throughout all humanity; after the establishment of universal peace and the strengthening of charity and disinterestedness; after the destruction of materialism, of that coarse unbelief and egotism which saps the vitality of our country." H.P.Blavatsky -- Letters -- THE PATH, Vol. 9, p. 302 ] And, in another place she wrote: "Theosophy, if seriously studied, calls forth by stimulating one's reasoning power; and, awakening the "inner" [the Spiritual] in the animal man, every hitherto dormant power for good in us, and also the perception of the true and the real, as opposed to the false and the unreal. Tearing off with no uncertain hand the thick veil of dead-letter with which every old religious scriptures were cloaked, scientific Theosophy, learned in the cunning symbolism of the ages, reveals to the scoffer at old wisdom, the origins of the world's faiths and sciences. It opens new vistas beyond the horizon of crystallized, motionless and despotic faiths; and turning blind belief into a reasoned knowledge founded on mathematical laws--the only "exact" science--it demonstrates to him under profounder and more philosophical aspects the existence of that which, repelled by the grossness of its dead-letter form, he had long since abandoned as a nursery tale. It gives a clearer and well defined object, an ideal to live for, to every sincere man or woman, belonging to whatever station in society and of whatever culture and degree of intellect. Practical Theosophy is not "one" Science, but embraces every science in life, moral and physical. It is the universal "coach," a tutor of world-wide knowledge and experience, who guides his pupils towards a successful examination for every scientific or moral service in earthly life, and fits them for the lives to come, if only those pupils will only study the universe and its mysteries "within themselves." instead of studying them through the spectacles of orthodox science and religion." I hope this will be found helpful, and if more information is needed, correlative reading, etc., please ask again. Best wishes, Dallas. >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:53:54 -0500 >From: Kim Raymoure >Subject: Theosophy >Hi all! I've just joined this list and hope to learn a lot. > >I am very unfamiliar with Theosophy and have it presently included in a >list I'm compiling of world religion's. Is this appropriate? Included on >that list are agnosticism, atheism, and buddhism to name a few that do not >necessarily worship a specific deity. Does Theosophy have a set religious >structure or is it merely the philosophy involved with theology. > >Help! Help! I'm in the dark! >Kim From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Theosophy Message-ID: Hi Kim, To get a good overview of theosophy, I would recommend getting The Key to Theosophy by Helena Blavatsky. Also, you might want to log onto other theosophical lists, since they vary in focus. The other two unmoderated lists I would recommend is Theos-Talk, send a message consisting of "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com, and TI-L (Theosophy International). You can log onto TI-L in the same way that you logged onto Theos-L, except that you replace Theos-L with TI-L. Theos-Talk includes members from various Theosophical Societies, the United Lodge of Theosophists, The Summit Lighthouse, and Theosophy International. The list usually discusses the academic, theoretical, and historical aspects of theosophy. The TI-L list is composed of on-line members. The discussion is usually geared toward current events. Of course, all that could change depending on who's contributing to the list. You will learn a lot. Have fun, Kim! Watch out for the bad influences of Chuck the Heretic on this list. He likes to make trouble. A bad one, he is. :o) Thoa :o) >Hi all! I've just joined this list and hope to learn a lot. > >I am very unfamiliar with Theosophy and have it presently included in a >list I'm compiling of world religion's. Is this appropriate? Included on >that list are agnosticism, atheism, and buddhism to name a few that do not >necessarily worship a specific deity. Does Theosophy have a set religious >structure or is it merely the philosophy involved with theology. > >Help! Help! I'm in the dark! >Kim >******************************************** >http://eagle.cc.ukans.edu/~kym/theology.html >"Let us examine the road > By which the fault has passed" > ---Victor Hugo >******************************************** From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:06:30 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: THEOSOPHY WORLD on the web Message-ID: A draft version of THEOSOPHY WORLD in web-page format is available for online review and comment. It can be found at: http://theosophy.com/tw/issues.html Any errors or mistakes noticed, suggestions for enhancement, etc. are welcome. (Write to editor@theosophy.com.) One page gives all authors, and contact information (email and web page) if available and ok to release. If you are an author and your information is missing, let me know and I'll add it. If you have email and/or web information provided, and don't want it From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:33:42 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: 2nd object stuff Message-ID: <33162d61.356216d7@aol.com> Can anyone come up a Theosophical Society version? Chuck the Heretic Top 10 Amish Spring Break Activities 10) Drink molasses 'til you puke 9) Wet bonnet contest 8) Stuff as many guys possible into a buggy 7) Buttermilk Keggar 6) Blow past the Dairy Queen on a really bitchin' Clydesdale 5) Get a tattoo; ' Born to raise barns' 4) Cruise streets of Goshen shouting insults at people with zippers 3) Sleep in til' 6 a.m. 2) Drive over to Allensville and kick some Mennonite ass 1) Churn butter naked. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:50:47 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: important stuff to remember Message-ID: <320aea30.356317fe@aol.com> Here are the real things one needs to remember in life. Got them from another list, enjoy. Chuck the Heretic "The Facts of Life" 1. The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. 2. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. 3. Money can't buy happiness. But it sure makes misery easier to live with. 5. Psychiatrists say that 1 of 4 people are mentally ill. Check three friends. If they're OK, you're it. 6. Nothing in the known universe travels faster than a bad check. 8. It has recently been discovered that research causes cancer in rats. 9. Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn. 10. If you are given an open-book exam, you will forget your book. 11. COROLLARY: If you are given a take-home test, you will forget where you live. 12. The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. 13. It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others. 14. Sky's Law: You can't fall off the floor. 15. The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think. 17. Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving from where you left them to where you can't find them. 19. Poker rules supplement: A .44 Magnum beats 4 aces. 20. I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. 21. Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film. 23. Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it. 24. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. 25. I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe. 26. He's not dead, He's electroencephalographically challenged. 27. She's always late. Her ancestors arrived on the Juneflower. 28. You have the right to remain silent....Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you. 29. I wonder how much deeper would the ocean be without sponges. 30. Honk if you love peace and quiet. 31. Pardon my driving, I am reloading. 32. Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular? 33. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. 34. Diplomacy is saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock. 35. A day without sunshine is like, you know, night. 36. Save the whales. Collect the whole set. 37. Atheism is a non-prophet organization. 38. On the other hand, you have different fingers. 39. Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:44:44 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: important stuff to remember Message-ID: Chuck the Heretical: > 15. The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the >average man can see better than he can think. As I said, the ignorant does not need to ignore. Thanks for a good laugh, Chuckie Baby. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:53:54 -0500 From: Kim Raymoure Subject: Theosophy Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980520145354.007ff350@eagle.cc.ukans.edu> Hi all! I've just joined this list and hope to learn a lot. I am very unfamiliar with Theosophy and have it presently included in a list I'm compiling of world religion's. Is this appropriate? Included on that list are agnosticism, atheism, and buddhism to name a few that do not necessarily worship a specific deity. Does Theosophy have a set religious structure or is it merely the philosophy involved with theology. Help! Help! I'm in the dark! Kim ******************************************** http://eagle.cc.ukans.edu/~kym/theology.html "Let us examine the road By which the fault has passed" ---Victor Hugo ******************************************** From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:50:39 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Writing the books on masters Message-ID: <199805202050.AAA11703@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello! 18 May 1998 "K. Paul Johnson" wrote: kz> BTW, what's your purpose of refuting existance of the masters? PJ> You seem to have totally misunderstood my writings based on PJ> second or third hand information. Read something I've written PJ> before attacking me, at least! Maybe quotations & abstracts I've seen on WWW were prepared a wrong way. PJ> Rather, I wrote them while my own adherence to the literal, PJ> traditional view of HPB's Masters was gradually lessening due to PJ> the information I was unearthing. Not due to any competing I also worked out some hypotheses about masters which don't match the "traditional view". But I don't write any books about it because these are only hypotheses & I never had any personal experiense concerned with those masters. The book stores are already overloaded by cabinet thinkers' writings. My current view of the masters is the following: Masters are still unexplained phenomenon of nature which probably helps to speed up evolution of humanity. PJ> Theosophy was at the center of my life for almost 20 years. Oh, sorry, i never took it so seriously. PJ> In America we call that a "When did you stop beating your wife?" Well, but if you got married, you should handle with care with yr. wife for no one could even suspect that you beat her. You might actually not beat her but nevertheless she may show to neighbours that you do. :) PJ> start making odd insinuations about my motives. It was only a joke :() We russians are here still wildmen & have not developed sense of political correctness yet ;) PJ> Is this a fit way for theosophical discourse to proceed? We should be PJ> here for discussion involving openness to evidence, friendly camarade- PJ> rie, willingness to learn and share. If you approach it as a place for Theoretically it might be so but practically your books (regardless of their contents & what you have intended when writing them) didn't add add unity to relationship between the theosophists (which they badly lack), as the discussions which took place here 2 years ago show. "(We) wanted as (to do) better but got (the result) as always", as our ex-prime minister said. And it's the normal fate of books written by "a cabinet thinker" (I also criticise the apologetic books about mas- ters written by those, too). I'd never recall these books without yr. recent posting from "Newsweek". The article quoted was neutral, so why are you trying to attach it to Blavatsky's theosophy? The title *Pri- soners of Shangri-La* points to the book about that land (I forgot the title) which was a fiction. BTW, Dalai-lama criticised the books by Lobsang Rampa as presenting the wrong image of Tibet. So he does it when finds it necessaty. All said above doesn't indulge me for exceeding criticize but yr. message which contained no meaningful information seems to me a pure provocation for something like that. With best regards, Konstantin. at home: ziatz@chat.ru http://www.chat.ru/~ziatz From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:41:24 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Did you know? Message-ID: Did you know?..... Coca-Cola was originally green. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US Treasury. It is possible to lead a cow upstairs but not downstairs. Smartest dogs: 1) Scottish border collie; 2) Poodle; 3) Golden Retriever The Hawaiian alphabet has 12 letters. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. Amount American Airlines saved in 1987 by eliminating one olive from each salad served first class: $40,000 City with the most Rolls Royces per capita: Hong Kong State with the highest percentage of people who walk to work: Alaska Percentage of Africa that is wilderness: 28%; Percentage of North America that is wilderness: 38% Barbie's measurements if she were life size: 39-23-33 Average number of days a West German goes without washing his underwear: 7 Percentage of American men who say they would marry the same woman if they had it to do all over again: 80%; Percentage of American women who say they'd marry the same man: 50% Cost of raising a medium-size dog to the age of eleven: $6,400 Average number of people airborne over the US any given hour: 61,000. Percentage of Americans who have visited Disneyland/Disney: 70% Average life span of a major league baseball: 7 pitches. Only President to win a Pulitzer: John F. Kennedy for " Profiles in Courage." Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. The world's youngest parents were 8 and 9 and lived in China in 1910. The youngest pope was 11 years old. Iceland consumes more Coca-Cola per capita than any other nation. First novel ever written on a typewriter:" Tom Sawyer." A duck's quack doesn't echo, and no one knows why. The San Francisco cable cars are the only mobile National Monuments. The only 15 letter word that can be spelled without repeating a letter is uncopyrightable. When opossums are playing 'possum, they are not "playing." They actually pass out from sheer terror. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king from history: Spades - King David; Clubs - Alexander the Great; Hearts - Charlemagne; Diamonds - Julius Caesar. 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321 Clans of long ago that wanted to get rid of their unwanted people without killing them, would burn their houses down: hence the expression "to get fired." Only two people signed the Declaration of Independence on July 4th: John Hancock and Charles Thomson. Most of the rest signed on August 2, but the last signature wasn't added until 5 years later. "I am." is the shortest complete sentence in the English language. The phrase "rule of thumb" is derived from an old English law which stated that you couldn't beat your wife with anything wider than your thumb. An ostrich's eye is bigger that its brain. In every episode of Seinfeld there is a Superman somewhere. The Pentagon, in Arlington, Virginia, has twice as many bathrooms as is necessary. When it was built in the 1940s, the state of Virginia still had segregation laws requiring separate toilet facilities for blacks and whites. The cruise liner, Queen Elizabeth 2, moves only six inches for each gallon of diesel that it burns. Cat's urine glows under a blacklight. The highest point in Pennsylvania is lower than the lowest point in Colorado. Nutmeg is extremely poisonous if injected intravenously. If you have three quarters, four dimes, and four pennies, you have $1.19. You also have the largest amount of money in coins without being able to make change for a dollar. The first toilet ever seen on television was on "Leave It To Beaver". Only one person in two billion will live to be 116 or older. Entertaining thoughts for the day....... From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:58:54 EDT From: Mayuyana Subject: Announcement: Change Your Mind Day '98! A day of free Buddhist meditation inst Message-ID: Change Your Mind Day Saturday, June 6: The Fifth Annual Day of Meditation in Central Park On June 6, 1998, thousands of New Yorkers will find an oasis of silence in the bustling heart of the city when Tricycle: The Buddhist Review presents and The Henry Luce Foundation sponsors the Fifth Annual Change Your Mind Day -- a day of meditation on the Great Hill in Central Park off Central Park West at 106th Street. Teachers from various Buddhist traditions will give introductory talks and lead participants in silent meditation and Buddhist chanting. Change Your Mind Day is designed to introduce meditation practices in a friendly, public setting free of charge. Participants are invited to relax and enjoy the event. Teachers and guests this year include: --Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Theravadin, Metta Forest Monastery near San Diego, California --Zoketsu Norman Fischer, Soto Zen, co-abbot of San Francisco Zen Center --Lama Surya Das, Dzogchen (Tibetan), founder of Dzogchen Foundation in Cambridge, Massachusetts --Tamara Engel, Vipassana, co-founder of New York Insight, New York City --Philip Glass, composer, Oscar nominee for Kundun, longtime Buddhist practitioner --Jon Gibson, instrumental & vocal composer performing around the world --Maggie Newman, tai-chi instructor, will teach contemplative movement as meditation in action --Sensei Enyko O'Hara, Soto Zen, Zen teacher, Village Zendo, New York City --Ven. Kurunegoda Piyatissa, Theravadin, Abbot of the New York Buddhist Vihara --Geshe Micheal Roach, ordained Gelugpa monk, Abbot of the Diamond Abbey, New York City, Founder of Asian Classics Input Program More and more Americans are expressing an interest in Buddhist meditation practices and Change Your Mind Day offers a unique opportunity to experience them. Each year since 1994, nearly two thousand people have participated in Change Your Mind Day, including many passers-by drawn by the irresistible sound of silence. Please join us on Saturday, June 6th from 12:30 to 5:30 PM on the Great Hill in Central Park off Central Park West at West 106th Street. Contact: Katharine Shields & Rande Brown telephone: 1-800-950-7008 fax: (212) 645-1493 e-mail: tricycle@well.com website: www.tricycle.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:47:13 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Did you know? Message-ID: <3561EFD1.7BEA0AC8@sprynet.com> Thoa Tran wrote: > > Did you know?..... > Smartest dogs: 1) Scottish border collie; 2) Poodle; 3) Golden Retriever Tbeosophical question: What, in a dog, is the definition of intelligence? > Cost of raising a medium-size dog to the age of eleven: $6,400 That actually sounds a little low, averaging about $50/month. Does that include vet bills, for example? How about cleaning bills? > Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. Theosophical question: How is intelligence being defined, here? > A duck's quack doesn't echo, and no one knows why. I think this one is an urban legend. > Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king from history: > Spades - King David; Clubs - Alexander the Great; Hearts - Charlemagne; > Diamonds - Julius Caesar. We were just discussing this old chestnut in TAROT-L. This has no basis in fact. > 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321 So? > "I am." is the shortest complete sentence in the English language. OK. > The phrase "rule of thumb" is derived from an old English law which stated > that you couldn't beat your wife with anything wider than your thumb. I hate it when special interest groups create legends to further their own causes. This was invented by radical femnists in the 1970's. In fact, "rule of thumb" comes from a practice of using one's thumb as measure of length in rough carpentry. Another example of politically correct revisionist etymology is the complaints by "diffabled" people about the use of the word "handicapped", which the activists claim comes from handicapped people in the past being beggars, always having their cap out in their hand. Actually, the term was used in gaming first; there was a game called hand'i'cap where better players had to play under rules which made it harder for them. Note it is also used in horse racing and golf, in the original sense. > The cruise liner, Queen Elizabeth 2, moves only six inches for each > gallon of > diesel that it burns. They have been discussing this one on alt.folklore.urban_legends. Some of the more mathematically inclined proved this to be impossible. > Cat's urine glows under a blacklight. So does mine. I'm pretty sure Chuck's does too, but he doesn't need a blacklight... > Nutmeg is extremely poisonous if injected intravenously. It also is an hallucinogen, in large amounts orally, which is why prisons keep the nutmeg locked up. Bart Lidofsky. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:08:00 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1532 Message-ID: <000201bd837c$774d9b40$03e78ccc@nwc.net> May 19th 1998 Dear Ramadoss: Many thanks for the clarification re: COPYRIGHT Very thorough. Dallas =================================== M.K.RAMADOSS >To: theos-l@vnet.net, ti-l@vnet.net >Subject: FAQ -- US Copyright Law >Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980518214701.008612b0@mail.eden.com> > >FAQ on US Copyright Law > >1. A minor child, using crayons, scribbles a jumble of words on a piece of >paper. Is it copyrightable? Who owns the copyright? > >The moment something is fixed on a paper or some other medium, it >automatically gets copyright. > >The child owns the Copyright. > >2. Are postings to maillists, newsgroups copyrighted? Who owns the Copyright? > > Yes. > > The writer of the message owns the Copyright. > >3. Is registration necessary to obtain Copyright? > > No. > >4. Can a message on the maillist or newsgroup be copied and distributed >(hard copy, electronically or on maillists or newsgroups) without the >permission of the writer? > > No. > >5. If one has the physical possession of a letter or copy of a letter, can >hard copies be made and distributed or letter posted in maillists or >newsgroups? > > No. > > Distribution of copies or posting on maillists or newsgroups without >permission of the copyright holder is copyright violation. > >6. Can one criticize or reply by quoting the letter in its entirety? > > No. > > Any reproduction in its entirety is copyright violation. > >7. Can one report the content of a letter, quote, criticize, or critique >the letter in print or electronic medium (such as maillist or newsgroup?) > > Yes, if "Fair Use" provision of US Copyright law is complied with. > >8. What is "Fair Use" under US Copyright law? > > US Copyright law defines "Fair Use" as: > -------------------------------------- > Fair use includes reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other >means, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching >(including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research. In >determining fair use, the factors considered shall include -- > > (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is >of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; > (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; > (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the >copyrighted work as a whole; and > (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the >copyrighted work. > The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding >of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above >factors. > > ----------------------- > > 9. In applying the "fair use" defined above, does it make a difference >between a not-for-profit use for reporting, comment, critique, news >reporting etc. and for-profit use? > > Yes. > > Not-for-profit use will make it easier to substantiate "fair use" if >challenged by copyright holder. > >10. X has an *unpublished* document or letter. The copyright to it is owned >by Y. Can X disclose and report on the contents of the document or letter >or comment or critique it under Fair Use provisions of the Copyright law? > > "Fair use" provision of the Copyright law applies to both published or >unpublished material. > > [The US Copyright law was specially amended in 1992 permitting "fair >use" of unpublished material under "fair use" provision of the law.] > > ======= > >Some links for additional information on US Copyright laws: > >Terry Carroll's FAQ: > http://www.aimnet.com/~carroll/copyright/faq-home.html > ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/law/copyright/faq/part 1 > >Templeton's Myths about Copyright: > http://www.clari.net/brad/copymyths.html > >US Copyright Office: > http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright > > ================================ > >Note: The above FAQ is for general understanding of some of the basic >aspects of the US Copyright Law. The law in other countries will vary. The >above FAQ is also not legal advise or opinion. Copyright matters can be >complicated depending on a case by case basis. If in doubt, one should seek >professional advise from a copyright attorney. > >The FAQ is placed in Public Domain. Anyone can reproduce or distribute it >in its entirety so long as no changes are made to it. > >5/18/1998 - M K Ramadoss - ramadoss@eden.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:21:49 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1532 M.K.RAMADOSS on COPYRIGHT Message-ID: <000501bd837c$7d851920$03e78ccc@nwc.net> May 19th 1998 Dear Ramadoss: That is indeed a most valuable job on the legality of COPYRIGHT. Many thanks, Dallas. ======================== From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:30:05 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Did you know? Message-ID: <6c90605f.356215fe@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-19 16:52:40 EDT, you write: > So does mine. I'm pretty sure Chuck's does too, but he doesn't need a >blacklight... I just tested it. I definitely glows in the dark, which means I must be doing something right with my experiments. Chuck the Radioactive Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:52:42 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: your posting on T-I of may 5th "emptiness" Message-ID: Hi Dallas, I sent your post back and forth to myself so often, I forgot which list this originated from. I'm going to post it on Theos-l and theos-talk. I don't think this came from TI-L. Let me see whether I can play your Jeopardy game! Dallas: >What would you say that a "force field" is ? Empty or >full ? Emptiness is a tricky word, Dallas. We use the word empty to describe something which our minds and senses cannot perceive. However, as seers have said for ages and science is discovering, emptiness is not really empty. When I used the word "empty" in my past posts, I was actually referring to the hidden, which was not actually empty in the dictionary sense. I also think that was what all the sages meant when they said "empty." >Empty as far as our kind of "matter" is -- full of >electro-magnetic "force-matter" -- or am I wrong ? By this terminology, I guess you could say it's empty. However, I would define all "matter", seen and unseen, kinetic and potential, as one infinite flow of varying vibrations. To me, a "force field" is just a closed system of vibrations. Is there any area in existence not under some kind of an energy influence? >Is the existence and harnessing of electricity, via the >interruption on a cyclic basis of ferro-magnetism, a significant >example of our using matter from "another dimension ?" According to theories using higher dimensions, it is. Einstein's general theory of relativity, via the Kaluza-Klein theory, suggests that forces result from the warping of hyperspace. In fact, Einstein thought that all matter, which is energy, which is vibrations, is the result of distortions in space-time. This coincides with the theosophical mechanics of atoms, as matter, transforming itself upwards into a higher plane, and vice versa. >From the perception of one plane, the atom seemed to have vanished from the physical world, and vice versa. >I wonder if this is actually one of the many "properties" of the >"astral light, which also surrounds us. I would guess that the same mechanics would go for the "astral light". It could be a higher dimensional world from our three-dimension. Like emptiness, it seems to me that labeling dimensions is only for the purpose of our three-dimensional minds. >What is the "life energy" It is the vitality that survives even after death of the physical body. It is the non-static force. It is the vibrations of our "consciousness." According to the holographic theory, our "consciousness" is actually an interference pattern from two coliding waves. Since a hologram can be divided into smaller multitudes without losing the "whole", it is theorized that our consciousness is a smaller hologram of the bigger hologram of the Cosmos. The Cosmos could be described as one big interference pattern. Thus, a need for separation into Matrix and Father to form the Son. >What is "exhaustion" that you and I, >feel physically after long exercise (or, rather to be accurate, >what used to do). Can't get those creaky bones hopping, eh, Dallas? :o) I'm sure you already know the physical answer to that, which is the expending of energy, the oxygen, the work and excretion of cells, the sweating, etc. We are passing some of the energy to whatever we are working on and against. Our energy goes from our fists into the punching bag. It goes to push against the force of gravity. The exhaustion is our body telling us to rest while it repairs itself against the stress put on it. Whatever we do impacts our cells and impacts our environment, and vice versa. Vibrations flowing with vibrations. >What is the power of emotions ? where does it arise, How is it >examined, channeled, felt, used ? This is a very good question. For one thing, emotion separates us from a computer. Even if we were to invent an android that has all the computer thinking process, it would still appear "soulless" due to its lack of emotion. Why is emotion so intertwined with human and perhaps animal consciousness? Some people who had parts of their brain destroyed reported a feeling of blandness, no love, no joy, and no anger. What does that say about our non-physical being? Are those people obstructed from feeling emotion by their physical body? Or is emotion not a necessary part of higher consciousness? When those people die, will they feel emotion again? Just as spinal injury victims often dream of wholeness, do those people dream that they are full emotional beings again? Scientifically, a leaf cut from a tree will show an aura of the branch that it was detached from. Is there still an aura of the emotion of the consciousness after the physical emotion part of the brain was cut off? >What is "mental energy" How is that harnessed, How is it >directed ? does it have a different speed from that of "light " Mental energy is basically consciousness. The true state of consciousness is undifferentiated and nonlocal, thus beyond space and time. Thus, consciousness can be everywhere at once. It is theorized that this nonlocality of consciousness makes psychic ability possible. For example, the ability to see into the future or the past is attributed to this. >Finally: Who are the "WE ?" in each one of us ? The whole of the larger whole? I am here and everywhere. >A friend last evening said quite seriously: Here we are >discussing (the Secret Doctrine, at our Malibu study class) and >fundamentally we are only a "field of energy." That gives me a charge! >Gave us all pause for thought ! Me, too! > Best wishes, Dal. You, too, Dallas. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:47:01 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: FAQ -- US Copyright Law Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980518214701.008612b0@mail.eden.com> FAQ on US Copyright Law 1. A minor child, using crayons, scribbles a jumble of words on a piece of paper. Is it copyrightable? Who owns the copyright? The moment something is fixed on a paper or some other medium, it automatically gets copyright. The child owns the Copyright. 2. Are postings to maillists, newsgroups copyrighted? Who owns the Copyright? Yes. The writer of the message owns the Copyright. 3. Is registration necessary to obtain Copyright? No. 4. Can a message on the maillist or newsgroup be copied and distributed (hard copy, electronically or on maillists or newsgroups) without the permission of the writer? No. 5. If one has the physical possession of a letter or copy of a letter, can hard copies be made and distributed or letter posted in maillists or newsgroups? No. Distribution of copies or posting on maillists or newsgroups without permission of the copyright holder is copyright violation. 6. Can one criticize or reply by quoting the letter in its entirety? No. Any reproduction in its entirety is copyright violation. 7. Can one report the content of a letter, quote, criticize, or critique the letter in print or electronic medium (such as maillist or newsgroup?) Yes, if "Fair Use" provision of US Copyright law is complied with. 8. What is "Fair Use" under US Copyright law? US Copyright law defines "Fair Use" as: -------------------------------------- Fair use includes reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research. In determining fair use, the factors considered shall include -- (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors. ----------------------- 9. In applying the "fair use" defined above, does it make a difference between a not-for-profit use for reporting, comment, critique, news reporting etc. and for-profit use? Yes. Not-for-profit use will make it easier to substantiate "fair use" if challenged by copyright holder. 10. X has an *unpublished* document or letter. The copyright to it is owned by Y. Can X disclose and report on the contents of the document or letter or comment or critique it under Fair Use provisions of the Copyright law? "Fair use" provision of the Copyright law applies to both published or unpublished material. [The US Copyright law was specially amended in 1992 permitting "fair use" of unpublished material under "fair use" provision of the law.] ======= Some links for additional information on US Copyright laws: Terry Carroll's FAQ: http://www.aimnet.com/~carroll/copyright/faq-home.html ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/law/copyright/faq/part1 Templeton's Myths about Copyright: http://www.clari.net/brad/copymyths.html US Copyright Office: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright ================================ Note: The above FAQ is for general understanding of some of the basic aspects of the US Copyright Law. The law in other countries will vary. The above FAQ is also not legal advise or opinion. Copyright matters can be complicated depending on a case by case basis. If in doubt, one should seek professional advise from a copyright attorney. The FAQ is placed in Public Domain. Anyone can reproduce or distribute it in its entirety so long as no changes are made to it. 5/18/1998 - M K Ramadoss - ramadoss@eden.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:13:37 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Dugpas online Message-ID: <8c85ada3.355f0cb2@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-17 10:27:23 EDT, you write: > Here in Fidonet there's not rare case when someone's system is shut >down such way. Especially in magic related newsgroups SU.MAGIC & RU.MAGIC. >The specially charged messages are using. A friend of mine got a heart >attack after receiving such a message. But this case is extraordinary. KEWL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've got to work on that! Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:27:24 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Dugpas online Message-ID: > Hello! > >th> The dugpas have been striking my computer system all of this week! > >Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > >> har har har! Tee hEE! Devislish smirking ..... >> The Dugpas {Momma Dugpa, Pappa Dugpa and all the little dugpas) > > Here in Fidonet there's not rare case when someone's system is shut >down such way. Especially in magic related newsgroups SU.MAGIC & RU.MAGIC. >The specially charged messages are using. A friend of mine got a heart >attack after receiving such a message. But this case is extraordinary. > With best regards, Kay Ziatz, tamporary moderator of SU.MAGIC ;) Hi Kay and Doc Alan, This week, it seems to be striking servers and other people's system, too. Since they already came up with a virus scan, maybe we should come up with a hex scan? :o) Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:29:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1530 Message-ID: <199805181429.KAA07366@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> According to theos-l@vnet.net: Kay wrote: > Hello mr. Johnson! > > j> population, the ratio for India is .000012631; with 4,000 members > j> out of 260 million in the US, the ratio here is .000015384, > > Note how much is overall amount of literal people in India and > try to calculate the ratio for literal people respectively there & > in the USA. Those *are* literal totals. Guess you mean "literate," and if you exclude illiterate Indians from consideration you could claim that the TS is more popular in India. But the level of "popularity" is still so tiny that I would think some European countries would do better. > snip > > As E.Roerich mentioned, those who deny a guru are regarded in India > as a trees without roots. It seems to me that she wrote that about > Aurobindo but in matches good for all folks of that kind. Krishnamurti and Aurobindo are immensely popular and honored in India, one sees their books in all the bookstores, so I don't think they've been rejected at all as your quote would imply. On the other hand I don't recall ever running across Theosophy books in stores. > BTW, "The voice of silence" was published in 1920s in China with > approval of Panchen-lama. His opinion, as an official head of Gelug-pa > might be appreciated even much that Dalai's. Only now when Panchen > Rimpoche is imprisoned, the Dalai-lama is in fact the head of gelug-pa. His opinion was that the doctrines in the text were genuine Mahayana doctrines. This has been consistently overinterpreted to be a blanket endorsement of all HPB's claims about Tibet, which of course it's not. It's not even an endorsement of the book as a genuine Tibetan source, just genuine Mahayana doctrine. snip > BTW, what's your purpose of refuting existance of the masters? In America we call that a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question, that is, one that presumes the guilt of the person being asked the question, who can only answer honestly by challenging the presumption. I've never had any purpose to refute the existence of any Masters, and have devoted three books to demonstrating the historicity of HPB's in particular. > Why not refute existance of Jesus Christ, Muhammad or Blavatsky herself? You seem to have totally misunderstood my writings based on second or third hand information. Read something I've written before attacking me, at least! > I understand that TS imposes no one to believe in them and admits > to join those who don't believe, but what's the use of joining > and then publish the pamflets against masters? I haven't published any pamphlets at all, and my books are *for* not *against* Theosophy, HPB and the Masters. They were published many years after I joined the TSes, and were not a project I decided to do but rather information I stumbled upon while working on something quite different. Normally books are > written for some doctrine, not against. I'm not writing for or against a doctrine. The books are overwhelmingly investigations of history surrounding HPB. That the history I explore has some doctrinal implications is not a matter of my own choice or preference. Nor of much emphasis in the books. There are some books against > but they are really for another doctrine, for example, christian. > Do you have a doctrine of your own? No. Well, we all do, but if you're asking if I wrote these out of a belief system opposed to orthodox Theosophy, definitely not. Rather, I wrote them while my own adherence to the literal, traditional view of HPB's Masters was gradually lessening due to the information I was unearthing. Not due to any competing influence; Theosophy was at the center of my life for almost 20 years. That it is not so any longer is due to the reactions of some Theosophists to my work and the urge to explore new literary territory, which together led to a greater sense of affiliation with the Cayce work than with theosophical groups. For people write books simply > "against" most commonly for money or ambition. Are your books > published by commercial publishing houses? No, three by the State University of New York Press and one, the first, self published. > Oh, perhaps I've guessed: these books are sold good, so it's > the best way to obtain money for TS & publishing such books as S.D., etc... ;) Are you going out of your way to be rude here? First you have a complete wrong understanding of what I've written, and then you start making odd insinuations about my motives. Is this a fit way for theosophical discourse to proceed? We should be here for discussion involving openness to evidence, friendly camaraderie, willingness to learn and share. If you approach it as a place for argument based on win/lose assumptions, belief that you have the truth and I am your opponent to be attacked, then we don't have a meeting of minds. Cheers, Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:25:10 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Theosophy & Tibet Message-ID: <199805171425.SAA25593@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello mr. Johnson! Sorry for delay; was at my "dacha" ;) pjohnson@vsla.edu wrote: j> population, the ratio for India is .000012631; with 4,000 members j> out of 260 million in the US, the ratio here is .000015384, Note how much is overall amount of literal people in India and try to calculate the ratio for literal people respectively there & in the USA. j> As for there being more critics of Theosophy the further one gets j> from India and Tibet, there are two reasons for this. First, j> there are more Theosophists the further one gets from India and Population of Infia reaches almost one billion, so using the ratio you mentioned we got a large absolute quantity. As to the other counties of Asia (including Tibet), the authoritar or islamic regimes rule there which suppress a free exchange of information. j> Krishnamurti, a definite critic of Theosophy, is vastly better j> known and more appreciated in India than anyone Theosophical. As E.Roerich mentioned, those who deny a guru are regarded in India as a trees without roots. It seems to me that she wrote that about Aurobindo but in matches good for all folks of that kind. > Otherwise he wouldn't come to celebrate 100th TS anniversary & so on. j> That probably has more to do with the role of the TS in j> supporting him than how he feels about its specific teachings j> that present an interpretation of Tibetan Buddhism. An j> interesting question, though, one I'd like more info on. BTW, "The voice of silence" was published in 1920s in China with approval of Panchen-lama. His opinion, as an official head of Gelug-pa might be appreciated even much that Dalai's. Only now when Panchen Rimpoche is imprisoned, the Dalai-lama is in fact the head of gelug-pa. j> There actually are rather dogmatic statements in Theosophical j> teachings, giving an average of 1500 years. Or various other j> intervals but all far longer than the one you cite. The tibetan sources regard dwelling in hells & paradises as _incar- nations_. For example several sins are mentioned for which one can get into the hell for several kalpas. For anger on Bodhisattva one can get to hell for one kalpa (see "Lamrim chenmo" (The big guide on the path of illumination) by Tzonkhapa, vol. I). The theosophists regard these stated not as incarnations but as the intervals between them. > But masters never declared themselves to be the lamas. j> There are a great many inconsistent statements about the precise j> relationship of HPB's Masters (which Masters do you refer to?) to j> the Tibetan tradition. I mean M. & K.H. who were born in Rajasthan and Kashmir. They simply lived in Tibet end even criticized an exoterical form of buddhism. Mahachohan mentioned that buddhism is good even in its exoterical form. (What shows that he himself wasn't a lama too). Only D.K. was mentioned (by Roerich & Bailey) as having the close relations with the lamas. But they also noted that he isn't a lama himself. BTW, what's your purpose of refuting existance of the masters? Why not refute existance of Jesus Christ, Muhammad or Blavatsky herself? I understand that TS imposes no one to believe in them and admits to join those who don't believe, but what's the use of joining and then publish the pamflets against masters? Normally books are written for some doctrine, not against. There are some books against but they are really for another doctrine, for example, christian. Do you have a doctrine of your own? For people write books simply "against" most commonly for money or ambition. Are your books published by commercial publishing houses? Oh, perhaps I've guessed: these books are sold good, so it's the best way to obtain money for TS & publishing such books as S.D., etc... ;) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:25:25 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Dugpas online Message-ID: <199805171425.SAA25598@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello! th> The dugpas have been striking my computer system all of this week! Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > har har har! Tee hEE! Devislish smirking ..... > The Dugpas {Momma Dugpa, Pappa Dugpa and all the little dugpas) Here in Fidonet there's not rare case when someone's system is shut down such way. Especially in magic related newsgroups SU.MAGIC & RU.MAGIC. The specially charged messages are using. A friend of mine got a heart attack after receiving such a message. But this case is extraordinary. With best regards, Kay Ziatz, tamporary moderator of SU.MAGIC ;) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:16:31 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: easy funds for the TS Message-ID: <5ffd2d51.355b26f1@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-14 04:30:04 EDT, you write: >James Randi's foundation has put up pledges of over US$1 million to any >person who can demonstrate in controlled conditions a supernatural ability >or effect. There must be some member with a slight degree of telekinetic >power or some other Siddhi. This would be some easy funds for the TS to >channel to some worthy cause. > > The only problem is that James Randi and his foundation are fundamentally dishonest and will futz with the results to disqualify them. Chuck the heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:42:41 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: easy funds for the TS Message-ID: <355B6551.C511B273@sprynet.com> Drpsionic wrote: > > In a message dated 98-05-14 04:30:04 EDT, you write: > > >James Randi's foundation has put up pledges of over US$1 million to any > >person who can demonstrate in controlled conditions a supernatural ability > >or effect. There must be some member with a slight degree of telekinetic > >power or some other Siddhi. This would be some easy funds for the TS to > >channel to some worthy cause. > > > > > > The only problem is that James Randi and his foundation are fundamentally > dishonest and will futz with the results to disqualify them. You can, of course, come up with specific case histories where they have done that. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:32:45 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: easy funds for the TS Message-ID: <85107767.355b7f1e@aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-14 17:48:10 EDT, you write: > You can, of course, come up with specific case histories where they >have done that. > > Bart Lidofsk A classic case was the testing of dowsers. The data was combined so that the highly accurate results of water dowsing was negated by including less acturate results of mineral dowsing. This was telecast on Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World and Arthur Clark was forced to admit that Randi had futzed the data. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 01:05:57 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: easy funds for the TS Message-ID: <355BCD35.3A21901D@sprynet.com> Drpsionic wrote: > > > You can, of course, come up with specific case histories where they > >have done that. > > > > Bart Lidofsk > > A classic case was the testing of dowsers. The data was combined so that the > highly accurate results of water dowsing was negated by including less > acturate results of mineral dowsing. This was telecast on Arthur C. Clark's > Mysterious World and Arthur Clark was forced to admit that Randi had futzed > the data. And this was for the money? Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:47:21 +0900 From: Darren Subject: * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2678258 (go there and try it!) or, * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 2678258@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:45:52 -0400 From: John E Mead Subject: Fw: Io Pan Jam! in TX Message-ID: <01IX23MWPW9O94E8JN@InfoAve.Net> Thought that some people in TX area might find this interesting. john e. m. ---------- > From: Baphemetis Continuity > To: jem@vnet.net > Subject: Io Pan Jam! > Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 7:33 PM > > You have received this message because you have indicated an interest in things Thelemic. If you have received this announcement in error, please send a polite return e-mail with REMOVE in the subject line to be removed from this annual mailing list. > > *** IO PAN JAM *** > A Pan-Thelemic Festival and Summer Solstice Celebration > > It's that time again! > > WHEN: Thursday June 18TH thru Sunday June 21st, 1998 ev > WHERE: Recreation Plantation Campground, Dripping Springs, Texas > HOST: Sponsored by Scarlet Woman Lodge, OTO, Austin, TX > COST: $35 advance ticket, $45 at the gate > WHO: All traditions welcome to celebrate the solstice with us! > AGE: You must be over 18 to register. Children accompanied by adults only. > > Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ! > > You are invited to join us under the beautiful Texas sky to celebrate the longest day of the year with drumming, ritual, revelry, and the kind of energized enthusiasm that can only be created by a group of free-spirited Thelemites! This year the Solstice occurs at 9:02 am, CDT, on Sunday, June 21st. A sunset Solstice Ritual on Saturday and a midday Solar Feast on Sunday will be held in celebration of the summer solstice. > > Scheduled Io Pan Jam activities include but are not limited to: > * a dedication of the Temple space with a potluck dinner to follow on Thursday > * a Midnight Mass on Friday > * a performance of The Hundred and Sixty-Nine Cries (from The Treasure House of Images) by SWL's choir, Unknown Rivers, at sunset on Friday > * the Chao Chow, including a feast, pinata & 'cow stuff' on Saturday afternoon > * face painting and drumming for the kids on Saturday > * Tree O' Life Twister game on Friday midday > * musical entertainment Saturday night, including a drum parade > > Other activities yet to be scheduled include: > * mud wrestling > * an Enochian workshop and opening of the aethyr of TEX by a distinguished guest magician > * Tempera body painting > * macrobiotic health cooking > * an ear candling workshop (if you're not familiar, it's pretty cool!) > * Morning Tai Chi workouts > * a reading of The Book of the Law on Sunday before we pack up and leave > > The big Temple Tent is also available for activities, and a permanent covered stage with electricity is available for productions. If you have any ideas for rituals/workshops, send them along with your ticket payment or send us an e-mail. It's quite unlikely we'll turn you down if you are self-sufficient, Thelemic, and do not require funding to realize your vision. > > Recreation Plantation is equipped with a bath-house containing running water, toilets, and showers. There are also outdoor showers, which are wonderful for rinsing off after a day of playing in the Texas sun. Or take a dip in the spring-fed creek which flows by. Fire rings dot the 80-acre wooded site, including one large enough to hold our famous rockin' nightly bonfire. There are many varieties of camping areas available, whether you are looking for all-night drumming or a quiet grove of evergreen trees in which to meditate, you can find it here. Since this is a private, fenced property, the festival is clothing optional and we can make almost all the noise we want! This site has been home to many Pagan and Thelemic festivals over the years, and there are few restrictions. > > Know in advance that there will be nudity, powerful ritual, and adult horseplay, so gauge the speed limit of your guests and children accordingly! It is not our will to restrict anyone, so please use common sense and good judgement when bringing children and pets. > > Registration to Io Pan Jam is open to anyone over the age of 18. Children accompanied by their parents or guardians are welcome (and if they are under 12, they may attend free of charge). No daycare will be available, but supervised children are welcome. Be aware when you register that you need to be totally responsible for you and yours, human and non-human alike, so that you do not needlessly restrict anyone else by your inattention. Pet owners with unruly pets may be advised to leave. > > The cost of this Io Pan Jam is a mere $35 by advance registration postmarked before June 8, which is highly recommended. There will be tickets available at the gate for $45, but attendance is capped at 250, so call us if you can't pre-register! After June 8, call (512) 443-7382 or email logistrix@scarletwoman.org to find out if we still have room for gate registrants. There are no refunds, but tickets are completely transferable. > > Vendors are encouraged and welcomed at Io Pan Jam, and there is no cost for vending your wares. > > If you have any questions regarding this event, you may call (512) 443-7382 or email content@babalon.com. Hope to see you there! > > Io Pan Jam website with photos: http://www.scarletwoman.org/iopan/pandoor.htm > > Love is the law, love under will. > > Io Pan! > > Content > Lodge Master, Scarlet Woman Lodge, O.T.O. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:55:38 +0900 From: Darren Subject: easy funds for the TS Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980514175538.00686278@ozemail.com.au> James Randi's foundation has put up pledges of over US$1 million to any person who can demonstrate in controlled conditions a supernatural ability or effect. There must be some member with a slight degree of telekinetic power or some other Siddhi. This would be some easy funds for the TS to channel to some worthy cause. And (sorry!) back to issue of drugs again. I haven't kept this thread going because my computer has been out of service for a couple of weeks but in that time i've managed to find HPB's reference to drugs in the SD - "SOMA is the moon astronomically; but in mystical phraseology, it is also the name of the sacred beverage drunk by the Brahmins and the Initiates during their mysteries and sacrificial rites. The 'soma' plant is the asclepias acida, which yields a juice from which that mystic beverage, the Soma drink, is made. Alone the descendants of the Rishis, the Agnihotri (the fire priests) of the great mysteries knew all it's powers. But the real property of the true Soma ['The Elixir of Life'] was (and is) to make a new man of the initiate, after he is reborn... "The partaker of Soma finds himself both linked to his external body, and yetv away from it in his spiritual form. The latter, freed from the former, soars for the time being in the ethereal higher regions, becoming virtually 'as one of the gods,' and yet plainly preserving in his physical brain the memory of what he sees and learns. Plainly speaking, Soma is the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge forbidden by the jealous Elohim to Adam and Eve or Yah-Ve, 'lest man should become as one of us.'" -H.P. Blavatsky The Secret Doctrine, Vol. II: Anthropogenesis (p. 499) Theosophical University Press Of course since then many have argued over the nature of the true Soma. R. Gordon Wasson, Clark Heinrich and Terrence McKenna have shown fairly conclusively that it was more likely Amanita Muscara or Psilocybin Cubensis. These natural psychadelics recreate the experience of death of which initiation is. When you've died and been reborn you will have seen the great truth. LSD can also be used to imprint the Tibetan Buddhist experience however this is not the preferred method as the drug does not have a strong morphogenic field as compared with the natural psychadelics. For more information see the Deoxyribonucleic Hyperdimension. NOS * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2678258 (go there and try it!) or, * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 2678258@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:17:07 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: easy funds for the TS Message-ID: <355AFCE3.AD1638F5@sprynet.com> Darren wrote: > > James Randi's foundation has put up pledges of over US$1 million to any > person who can demonstrate in controlled conditions a supernatural ability > or effect. There must be some member with a slight degree of telekinetic > power or some other Siddhi. This would be some easy funds for the TS to > channel to some worthy cause. I have known James Randi for about 20 years, and can verify that the offer is genuine. He sponsored a group of Philadelphia nurses trying to set up a test of Therapeutic Touch, which was to be broadcast by Scientific American. I tried mightily to get TT practitioners, including Dora Kunz, to participate, to no avail; the test was cancelled because they could not find any practitioners willing to be tested. Based on TT literature, the test was 100% fair, but I received responses (not from Dora, who did not respond at all) ranging from, "Anything that Randi is involved with must be crooked", to "TT is WIMMIN'S science; it can't be tested the same way men's science is!". The test was that the practitioners would check out the energy fields of a number of volunteers, and pick the 10 who had the strongest fields. These people would be covered by a cloth, as well as 10 mannequins. The idea was to tell the people from the mannequins, without touching them. Randi does not dictate the tests; he merely determines whether they are scientifically valid or not. Both Randi and the subject must agree to the testing conditions. A lot of people have tried for the prize, but nobody has collected, yet. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:20:40 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: death of John Cooper Message-ID: <199805141516.KAA24525@proteus.imagiware.com> A number of list members may have known John Cooper, and may be interested to hear that he has passed on. The following news was reported by someone in Australia: > I rang our National Pres. Bev Champion and she confirmed that > Danielle Cooper (his daughter) rang her yesterday to say that > John died on Tues afternoon l2th at the University. Someone had > just been talking to him and John appeared to be his usual jovial > self. A short time later two of John's students knocked on his > office door and found John slumped over his desk - dead. He put > his Ph.D thesis in last week & has just finished the HPB letters, > so she thinks. > > The T.S is going to have a memorial service on Sunday afternoon > in Sydney for John, and Bev would appreciate any contributions. > Her tel no. is 02 9264.7056 and FAX is 02 9264 5857. To contact the T.S., write tshq@austheos.org.au. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:50:59 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Does the Theosophical Society have a Doctrine? Message-ID: <35573A83.1822F2E0@sprynet.com> A number of theosophists have reacted very negatively to a statement that the Theosophical Society has a doctrine. Now, given that there IS a difference between doctrine and dogma, a statement (whether true or not) can be made: The Theosophical Society has a teaching or set of teachings, which the individual members can either accept or reject as they see fit. This was the gist of every statement I have heard or read by Theosophists that the Theosophical Society has a doctrine. Now, given that there are a number of representatives of a number of Theosophical Societies here, I would like to know who agrees or disagrees with the statement given above (The Theosophical Society has a teaching or set of teachings, which the individual members can either accept or reject as they see fit), and, more importantly, why. Bart Lidofsky P.S. I will forgo answering the question myself, at first, so that people who agree with me won't decide to let me speak for that side by myself. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:20:33 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Does the Theosophical Society have a Doctrine? Message-ID: Bart Lidofsky writes > Now, given that there are a number of representatives of a number of >Theosophical Societies here, I would like to know who agrees or >disagrees with the statement given above (The Theosophical Society has a >teaching or set of teachings, which the individual members can either >accept or reject as they see fit), and, more importantly, why. The statement is, to those of us who have been there, a self-evident truth. The *attitude* of many - often "high-ranking" - TS organisational theosophists is, however, often far less objective, and newcomers can be made to feel that they are expected to study these teachings (and why not?) and *then* accept these teachings (why?). Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:17:40 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Message-ID: <000801bd7e7a$559ffc60$03e78ccc@nwc.net> May 13th 1998 Dallas offers some ideas: What about "Universal Evolution ?" Thesis: The doctrine of Universal Evolution offered by the Sages of the "Wisdom Religion" is based on the proposition that the Spirit (Purusha) proceeds from the "First Cause" [ an emanation of the "Causeless Cause' -- the "Eternal Background of ALL" ]. And, the Universe "awakes" from its vast and periodical "sleep (Pralaya). At that time : the necessary form to provide the awakening spirit is provided by Nature, following the pattern of past manifestations. Matter is evolved at the same time as Spirit awakens. These two as "primaries" of every aspect of life, are inseparable. Therefore, the Sages state that evolution proceeds, beginning in the world of the spiritual from the highest; and simultaneously, in the material world from the lowest form. Therefore the mineral, vegetable and animal forms each imprison a spark of the Divine, a portion of the indivisible "Purusha." These "sparks" struggle to "return to the Father" or, to secure self-consciousness and at last come into the highest forms on Earth, that of Mankind, where alone self-consciousness is possible to them. This embraces millions of ages and therefore each of such "Sparks" has ample time in which to accomplish its further mission -- the obtaining of complete self-consciousness while in the form of a "man." By this it is not meant that the coming into a human form confers self-consciousness. That great work may be accomplished in the same "Manvantara" (evolutionary age) during which the "spark" first reaches the human stage and form, or it may not, and several such periods may be required, as it is immortal. All depends on the individual's will and efforts. Each particular Spirit/spark thus goes through the Manvantara for its own enrichment and for that of the Whole. It is the saga of the development of the will, of the freedom to choose, and learning how to handle that power. Each of us is engaged in that now. Adepts, Mahatmas and Rishis are gradually evolved during each Manvantara, and become after its expiration "planetary spirits" who guide the evolution of future planets. The planetary Spirits of our earth are those who in previous Evolutions made, successfully, the effort needed, and became in the course of that long period the "Mahatmas" the Great Souls. Each Manvantara is for the same end and purpose. This systematic process is seen to be based on the "identity of Spiritual Being." and, under the name of "Universal Brotherhood," it continues the basic idea and work as proposed in the doctrines that Theosophy offers: for the establishing of Brotherhood among all humans; and, for them to realize their parentage and inseparable relation with all other beings in Nature. The same essence is in each. The Adepts state that "Purusha" -- the Universal Spirit -- is at the basis of all manifested objects. Without It, nothing could exist or cohere. It interpenetrates everything, everywhere. It is the "Reality" of which, or upon which, those things that we call "real" are mere images. As Purusha, the Spirit, reaches to and embraces all beings, they and we, are all connected together (by the constant interchange of molecular and atomic substance, as well as, the emanations of our thinking and of our feelings). On the plane of that Spirit, there is a perfect consciousness of every act, thought, object, feeling and circumstance of this plane of living, or of any other. Below the spirit and above the intellect is a plane of consciousness in which experiences are noted. This is commonly referred to as "man's spiritual nature." It is frequently said that it can be cultivated, as also his body or his mind. This intermediary plane performs another function: it is the real register of all sensations and experiences. It is intimately connected, therefore, to individual and mass Karma. "Spiritual culture" is a misnomer. It is our human nature than can be enhanced, raised in its aspirations. The real object to be kept in view is to so open or make porous our lower nature that the "spiritual nature" (the divine Spark) that we really are, may shine through it, and become our constant guide and ruler. It is only "cultivated" in the sense of having a vehicle prepared by us for its use, and, into which it may 'descend.' It is held by the Sages that the real Man is the Higher Self. It is a being, a Spark of the Divine, before alluded to. It overshadows us, as material beings and forms, and we have the possibility, the potential, of uniting ourselves to the Spark that dwells inside, or rather, "above" us. The choice and the effort to do this represents the next step in our living. But we may ask: What is the nature of this divine spark ? They answer: It is always peaceful, harmless, unconcerned, blissful, and full of absolute knowledge. It constantly bathes in the Divine Absoluteness, and being that state itself, it sustains not only our living, but is conjoined to, and a vital part of the vast network of all living beings. The object of the student seeker for Wisdom and Knowledge is to let the light of that spirit shine through the lower coverings in which he finds himself now living. "Spiritual cultivation" is only attainable as the grosser interests, passions, and demands of the flesh are subordinated to the interests, aspirations and needs of the higher nature. And, this is a matter of both system and of established experience and law covering untold aeons of time. The Spirit can only become the ruler when the firm intellectual acknowledgment or admission is made that IT alone IS. And this has to be made with the full realization that it is not the person alone who makes that decision in isolation, but that it is made with a knowledge of, and a deep concern for the whole. It is profoundly ecological. All selfishness has to be eliminated from the lower nature before it can reach to its divine estate. It is said by the Sages, who have gone through this process by the strength of their will, that so long as the smallest personal or selfish desire--even for spiritual attainment for our own personal sake--remains, so long is the desired goal put off. Hence the phrase: "demands of the flesh" includes demands those that are not of the "flesh," -- but desires of the personal nature, including those of the "individual soul." This process of "spiritual cultivation" is one which has been developed over many Manvantaras of living and of effort in the immeasurable past. When systematically trained according to the age-old system and law, the human can attain to clear insight into the immaterial, spiritual wold. The interior and finer faculties of the soul are developed so that truth on any subject can be immediately apprehended, as readily as our physical hands grasp the tools of the sense, or our mental faculties handle reason and argument. It has been said that the successful student in this "spiritual self-cultivation" is "able to look directly upon ideas." In the course of such spiritual cultivation and training a student acquires perception of, and power over, various forces in Nature. Some of these are not commonly known. And employing these powers, they can perform what appear as "miracles," though, in reality, it is but the use of natural laws which are not widely known--because of the danger inherent in their selfish use. What these powers are may be found in Patanjali's "Yoga Aphorisms." The testimony of the Masters of Wisdom, through Theosophy, as to the super-sensuous truths and secret laws of Nature, verified by evidence of their possession and use of such powers, challenges candid examination from every interested mind. The process of evolution up to a "reunion with the Divine" is and includes successive elevation from rank to rank of power and usefulness. The most exalted beings still in the flesh are known as Sages, Rishis, Brothers, Masters of Wisdom. Their great function is the preservation at all times, and when cyclic laws permit, the extension of spiritual knowledge and influence. They employ a designation for themselves which epitomizes the attitude of the true seeker for wisdom. They call themselves the "servants of humanity." Students who are interested in more details concerning this aspect of "spiritual cultivation" will find that Mr. Wm. Q. Judge details the steps in his EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY, pp 25-27. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:39:55 -0400 From: jim meier Subject: Wesak Message-ID: <199805101340_MC2-3C86-1223@compuserve.com> The Taurus full moon is celebrated as the Festival of the Buddha and His enlightenment. In many parts of the world, it is a public holiday. For students of Alice Bailey, the Wesak festival is the second of three which make up the highpoint of the spiritual year; the first is the Aries full moon (Easter), and Wesak is followed next month by the Gemini festival of Goodwill. One of the clear demarcations between "orthodox" theosophy and the Bailey teachings is on the importance of the monthly cycles and the energies which are available for group use. The Eastern religions have their "holy" days and Western religion recognizes different days as being of special significance, but the Tibetan said that in the not distant future, there will be one set of universally recognized religious days: the times of the full moon, with the three festivals of Aries, Taurus and Gemini having special importance as times when extraordinary energies of Restoration, Enlightenment and Reconstruction are available for our use. Group meditations on "Letting in the Light" will occur this Sunday afternoon and again at the exact moment of the Taurus full moon, Monday morning at 10:30 EST (2:30 GMT) and all are invited to participate. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:40:06 -0400 From: jim meier Subject: Bailey and discipleship groups/Abraham Message-ID: <199805101340_MC2-3C86-1224@compuserve.com> Back on April 30, Konstantin wrote, >BTW, have anyone of you read "Disciple's mirror", a book written down >by Brigit Lomborg? Is it popular among the western theosophists? >That book states that sex is not prohibited, and moreover, recommended >for the disciples. An author, who declared himself to be that Tibetan >who wrote Bailey books, stated that an experiment with the groups of >disciples has failed because humanity isn't developed enough, so hie- >rarchy tried an experiment with the least possible group - a pair. >One member of the pair is more developed (approx. one life ahead) and >leads another one. An author, whoever he could be, seems to me a very >informed person; our Roerich fans don't deny that though regard him >to be a black lodge emissar. Of course the book overviews different >questions, most of them have no obvious connection with a sex. I have not seen the book, but I will keep looking for it as a curiosity, if nothing else. It would be difficult to imagine the Tibetan's experiment in externalizing an Ashram continued with a "group of two"; looking at the original group goals as outlined in the two AAB books which are compilations of the instructions of the Tibetan to his group members, DISCIPLESHIP IN THE NEW AGE vols. I and II, it seems that two people just wouldn't be enought to pull it off... i.e., telepathic interplay within the group and sensitivity, enabling group unity, group meditation and group activity for certain specific ends. Those two AAB books are quite lengthy and consist of a series of personal instructions as well as some group teaching which were made public as an aid to the rest of us who are trying to manage our personalities, that we might benefit from seeing how others dealt with (or were unable to handle) problems which are common to humanity. The identities of the original disciples are not given, but are coded with initials. There is a new book by Kurt Abraham titled TECHNIQUES OF SOUL ALIGNMENT with the premise that the initials given for each disciple are "keywords" for that individual's life purpose. From the jacket, "One of the purposes of ESOTERIC PSYCHOLOGY is to aid in the revelation of one's higher spiritual possibilities. This is not a path of acquisition and self-aggrandizement, rather it is a path of self-discipline and service. There are several very practical techniques that help facilitate this all important process, including - Knowledge of the Seven Rays and how these ray energies relate to the suble bodies - Meditative reflection on certain seed thoughts - The use of a daily review - The use of certain KEYWORDS that balance specific ray energies and draw forth the energy of the higher Self or Soul. The use of KEYWORDS is a most important technique used by the Adepts who guide and teach through profoundly meaningful phrases and often through the use of a *single word.* This major technique is explored in depth, including suggestions as to how one can determine one's own guiding KEYWORDS. The "trap of many words," -- a trap into which intellect and personality invariably fall -- is avoided in the *soul-to-soul single keyword technique.*" I found it to be an interesting and useful book. It is ISBN 0-9609002-6-8, $14.00, from Lampus Press, also available from the Lucis Trust Publishers. Jim From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:56:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Theosophy/Tibet Message-ID: <199805111356.JAA20395@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> According to theos-l@vnet.net: > From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" > The further from India & Tibet, the more numerous are the critics of > theosophy. It's a well-known fact that in India TS is more popular than > in many european countries. Sorry, that may have been true once but hasn't been for a long time. I suppose one could define "popular" in many ways, but sicne you specify the TS rather than Theosophy, here's some food for thought: with 12,000 TS members out of 950,000,000 population, the ratio for India is .000012631; with 4,000 members out of 260 million in the US, the ratio here is .000015384, slightly higher. (Just over one hundredth of one percent in either case.) And in Europe as it has been reported to me there are several countries where Theosophists are much higher as a percentage of population: the Netherlands and Iceland are two of whom I've seen this stated, but have no statistics on hand. As for there being more critics of Theosophy the further one gets from India and Tibet, there are two reasons for this. First, there are more Theosophists the further one gets from India and Tibet, Western Europe, the English-speaking world and Latin America being the strongholds of membership. (Maybe Russia now changing that?) But there are *very* few Theosophists in Asia outside India. And in India there are few critics of Theosophy because it has a certain honor for its role in the Freedom Movement, Indian education, etc., and because it has long ceased having any real presence in the country's intellectual life. Krishnamurti, a definite critic of Theosophy, is vastly better known and more appreciated in India than anyone Theosophical. It's true, theosophical understanding of > Buddhism is far from western orientalists' understanding of it, > for criticize originates mostly from them. It would be better to > hear the opinion of the authorities of Tibetian Buddhism, for > example, Dalai-lama XIV. Though I've never heard his opinion about > Blavatsky teachings, I would suspect that it's rather positive than > negative. The DL is also positive about aspects of Christianity and generally avoids being critical of those who are friendly to him, as Theosophists have certainly been. Therefore I suspect his private opinion may be more critical than any of his public statements. Otherwise he wouldn't come to celebrate 100th TS anniver- > sary & so on. That probably has more to do with the role of the TS in supporting him than how he feels about its specific teachings that present an interpretation of Tibetan Buddhism. An interesting question, though, one I'd like more info on. For instance, in his books and lectures Dalai-lama says > that Buddha has attained illumination long before his well-known > incarnation. So it contradicts popular exoterical point of view > and matches the theosophical understanding. Not sure that there has been any doubt as to the admissibility of this view in Tibetan Buddhism. > > > aspect, interval between births, but there are several. For > > An interval between births is not dogmatized both in Buddhism and > in theosophy. Short intervals which are widely known concern tulku, i.e. > advanced lamas who can incarnate by will. Experience of people who re- > member their past lives shows an average value of 7-15 years. > There actually are rather dogmatic statements in Theosophical teachings, giving an average of 1500 years. Or various other intervals but all far longer than the one you cite. > > For example the doctrine of the three kayas is presented by HPB as > > alternative choices of vehicle, where in Tibetan tradition they are > > simultaneous and not separable. > > The following quotation clearly shows that Blavatsky didn't deny > the conception of simultaneous kayas: > Dhyani-Bodhisattva), in his Sambhogakaya "robe of absolute complete- > ness", and in Dhyana, or a state which must cut him off from the world > and all its connections; and finally and lastly he is, besides being a > Nirmanakaya and a Sambhogakaya, also a Dharmakaya "of absolute purity", > a Vairotchana or Dhyani-Buddha in full Nirvana! (See Eitel's Sanskrit- > Chinese Dictionary.) This is the jumble of contradictions, impossible > to reconcile, which is given out by missionaries and certain Orientalists > as the philosophical dogmas of Northern Buddhism. Sounds like a denial to me! If not an intentional > confusion of a philosophy dreaded by the upholders of a religion based > on inextricable contradictions and guarded "mysteries", then it is the > product of ignorance. As the Trailokya, the Trikaya, and the Triratna > are the three aspects of the same conceptions, and have to be, so to say, > blended in one, the subject is further explained under each of these > terms. (See also in this relation the term "Trisharana".) Following these up would show whether she does indeed deny it, as the above passage makes it appear, or not. But it is surely not "clear" from what you quote, which seems to say the opposite of what you read it as saying. snip > > But masters never declared themselves to be the lamas. There are a great many inconsistent statements about the precise relationship of HPB's Masters (which Masters do you refer to?) to the Tibetan tradition. > You might similarly declare that "clergymen of russian orthodox church > would never do such things". It would be the correct statement but would > have no value as an argument. It does depend on what the argument is. David-Neel wasn't really arguing for anything, just mentioned this in passing, but her opinion was clearly that Theosophical writings misrepresent Tibet. Since the modus operandi of the Mahatmas was presented as consistent with that of Tibetan lamas, whether or not they themselves were lamas does not negate the implication of ADN's comment. Cheers, Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 21:15:45 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: re: Newsewwk mentions Message-ID: <199805091715.VAA06786@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello! 5 May 1998 K. Paul Johnson wrote: > That image is not entirely inaccurate, but glamorizes and > mythologizes a real living culture. It was recently asked here > how HPB and Theosophy conflict with genuine Tibetan > understandings of their religion. Jerry has mentioned one The further from India & Tibet, the more numerous are the critics of theosophy. It's a well-known fact that in India TS is more popular than in many european countries. It's true, theosophical understanding of Buddhism is far from western orientalists' understanding of it, for criticize originates mostly from them. It would be better to hear the opinion of the authorities of Tibetian Buddhism, for example, Dalai-lama XIV. Though I've never heard his opinion about Blavatsky teachings, I would suspect that it's rather positive than negative. Otherwise he wouldn't come to celebrate 100th TS anniver- sary & so on. For instance, in his books and lectures Dalai-lama says that Buddha has attained illumination long before his well-known incarnation. So it contradicts popular exoterical point of view and matches the theosophical understanding. > aspect, interval between births, but there are several. For An interval between births is not dogmatized both in Buddhism and in theosophy. Short intervals which are widely known concern tulku, i.e. advanced lamas who can incarnate by will. Experience of people who re- member their past lives shows an average value of 7-15 years. > For example the doctrine of the three kayas is presented by HPB as > alternative choices of vehicle, where in Tibetan tradition they are > simultaneous and not separable. The following quotation clearly shows that Blavatsky didn't deny the conception of simultaneous kayas:
Trikaya (Sk.). Lit., three bodies, or forms. This is a most abstruse teaching which, however, once understood, explains the mystery of every triad or trinity, and is a true key to every three-fold metaphysical symbol. In its most simple and comprehensive form it is found in the human Entity in its triple division into spirit, soul, and body, and in the universe, regarded pantheistically, as a unity composed of a Deific, purely spiritual Principle, Supernal Beings — its direct rays — and Humanity. The origin of this is found in the teachings of the pre- historic Wisdom Religion, or Esoteric Philosophy. The grand Panthe- istic ideal, of the unknown and unknowable Essence being transformed first into subjective, and then into objective matter, is at the root of all these triads and triplets. Thus we find in philosophical Northern Buddhism (1) Adi-Buddha (or Primordial Universal Wisdom); (2) the Dhyani-Buddhas (or Bodhisattvas); (3) the Manushi (Human) Buddhas. In European conceptions we find the same: God, Angels and Humanity symbolized theologically by the God-Man. The Brahmanical Trimurti and also the three-fold body of Shiva, in Shaivism, have both been conceived on the same basis, if not altogether running on the lines of Esoteric teachings. Hence, no wonder if one finds this conception of the triple body — or the vestures of Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya and Dharmakaya, the grandest of the doctrines of Esoteric Philosophy — accepted in a more or less disfigured form by every religious sect, and explained quite incorrectly by the Orientalists. Thus, in its general application, the three-fold body symbolizes Buddha's statue, his teach- ings and his stupas; in the priestly conceptions it applies to the Buddhist profession of faith called the Triratna, which is the formula of taking "refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha". Popular fancy makes Buddha ubiquitous, placing him thereby on a par with an anthropomorphic god, and lowering him to the level of a tribal deity; and, as a result, it falls into flat contradictions, as in Tibet and China. Thus the exoteric doctrine seems to teach that while in his Nirmana- kaya body (which passed through 1000000 kotis of transformations on earth), he, Buddha, is at the same time a Lochana (a heavenly Dhyani-Bodhisattva), in his Sambhogakaya "robe of absolute complete- ness", and in Dhyana, or a state which must cut him off from the world and all its connections; and finally and lastly he is, besides being a Nirmanakaya and a Sambhogakaya, also a Dharmakaya "of absolute purity", a Vairotchana or Dhyani-Buddha in full Nirvana! (See Eitel's Sanskrit- Chinese Dictionary.) This is the jumble of contradictions, impossible to reconcile, which is given out by missionaries and certain Orientalists as the philosophical dogmas of Northern Buddhism. If not an intentional confusion of a philosophy dreaded by the upholders of a religion based on inextricable contradictions and guarded "mysteries", then it is the product of ignorance. As the Trailokya, the Trikaya, and the Triratna are the three aspects of the same conceptions, and have to be, so to say, blended in one, the subject is further explained under each of these terms. (See also in this relation the term "Trisharana".)
(Theosophical glossary by H.P.B.) > Alexandra David-Neel, a one-time Theosophist, reports in her Magic and > Mystery in Tibet that her Tibetan lamas regarded the stories about the > Mahatma letters as ridiculous and took them as a joke, insisting that > no real lama would do such things. But masters never declared themselves to be the lamas. You might similarly declare that "clergymen of russian orthodox church would never do such things". It would be the correct statement but would have no value as an argument. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 02:39:12 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Website Message-ID: <3eKL8GAAP7U1EwbA@nellie2.demon.co.uk> Ken Malkin writes >Alan, >Every time I hit your site I am more and more impressed. You do a great >job ! >Thank you for the time and energy you are putting into the project. >Yours is the manifestation of a world server if there ever was one. >-K- > Well thank 'ee kindly, good sir! Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 04:08:58 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Welcome! Message-ID: <2LXQZFAKj8U1Ewqp@nellie2.demon.co.uk> Thesopshy International welcomes Stephanie Spalding! Personal welcomes to elyria@jerseycape.com Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 03:59:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaqtarin Triele Subject: Re: Sex and spirituality Message-ID: <19980509105957.18249.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> > Best regards to you, too, Konstantin. I am communicating with you in the > Soviet Union. Our big world is getting smaller! Your English is terrific. > Have you studied it for a long time? > > Thoa :o) Oh my god, Thoa...Soviet Union is, like, SO five years ago... *giggle* --- ^ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:11:16 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Sex and spirituality Message-ID: > > >> Best regards to you, too, Konstantin. I am communicating with you >in the >> Soviet Union. Our big world is getting smaller! Your English is >terrific. >> Have you studied it for a long time? >> >> Thoa :o) > >Oh my god, Thoa...Soviet Union is, like, SO five years ago... > >*giggle* Oh, my gosh, you are so right, smart carrot. I was typing too many responses and had a brain fart. All that talk about sex, drugs and extraterrestrials on TI got to me. Konstantin, which part are you from? Russia? Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 21:13:29 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Sex & spiritualiryty Message-ID: <199805091713.VAA06763@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hello Thoa! >and it replaced celibate as "a standard of right spiritual life" :) >So he had to introduce something revolutionary new :) th> Marital infidelity is nothing new. Even things going on nowadays is Marital infidelity isn't new in civil life, but as a standard of right spiritual life it seems to be a breakthrough. ;) > With beat regards, Konstantin. th> I am communicating with you in the Soviet Union. th> Our big world is getting smaller! Your world seems to be not only small, but also rather old. There's no Soviet Union at least for 7 years. th> Your English is terrific. _My_ English? English is terrific language at all :) th> Have you studied it for a long time? I've _never_ studied it. I've studied German in the school & institute. All I know in English is from rock songs & PC programs. Anyway I'm trying to read & write English approx. for 12 years ;) With beast regards, Konstantin. ;) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 21:14:18 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Etherdynamics abstract 1/2 Message-ID: <199805091714.VAA06771@idg.chph.ras.ru> From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 07 May 98 12:00:00 MST From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: An abstract of General Ether-Dynamics Hi, Thoa! > I would be very interested in reading the work, if you wouldn't mind > posting it. Thanks. Here I send a short overview of "Etherdynamics" in English. I've contacted with the author & he said that none of his work is translated to English still though he has one publication in german. Vladimir A. Atsukovsky GENERAL ETHER-DYNAMICS Simulation of the matter structures and fields on the basis of the ideas about the gas-like ether [Moscow, Energoatomizdat, 1990. ISBN 5-283-04014-3] Abstract On the basis of the ideas about the ether, a gasiform medium filling the Universe space, the structures of the material formations from microparticles to the Universe in general, the mechanisms of elementary interactions and physical phenomena are considered in the work. The numerical values of the main ether parameters and the parameters of its element amere are obtained. The vortical models of the main stable elementary particles, i.e. proton, neutron, electron and photon, the models of nuclei and atoms, the models of the main types of interactions, i.e. strong and weak nuclear, electromagnetic and gravity and also laminary ether-dynamic ones, the models of the main electromagnetic, optical and gravity phenomena are worked out. The gasomechanical interpretation of the main quantum mechanics equations are given. The model of the stationary dynamic Universe based on the ideas about the ether circulation is worked out. It is shown, that the ether-dynamic ideas solve the cosmological paradoxes within the limits of the eternally existing matter, uniformly passing time and Euclidean space. Prospectus The author attempts to create a united theory of the ether on the basis of purely mechanical ideas about phenomena's nature. With the purpose of elucidation of the reasons which have not allowed the authors of the similar attempts to work out noncontradictory conception of the ether, the analysis of their works is conducted and their mistakes are revealed. The methodology of the ether-dynamics based on the idea of generalization of experimental data accumulated in the main domains of macro- and microworld, and formulating on this base of general physical invariants is worked out. The revelation of general physical invariants, which proved to be four categories: motion and its components -- matter, space and time, allowed to formulate the idea about the unity of the macro- and microworld laws, what in its turn gave the ground for the wide usage of analogies between phenomena of macro- and microworld. From the previous thesis and from the fact of the formation of microparticles by the vacuum clearly follows the fact that space is filled with material medium, which has the properties of the ordinary real viscous compressible gas. The main parameters of tins gas -- the ether and its element -- amere (according to Democrit) are determined in this work. The author considers the structures of the material formations, mechanisms of elementary interactions and physical phenomena. The numerical values of the main parameters of the ether (density, pressure, viscosity, temperature, sound velocity, heat capacity, energy content in the volume unit) and the values of the amere parameters (mass, dimensions, quantity per volume unit, mean free path, thermal motion velocity) are obtained. The vortical models of the main stable elementary particles, i.e. proton, neutron, electron and photon, the models of Nuclei, atoms and some molecules are considered in the work. The models of the main fundamental interactions, namely, strong and weak nuclear, electromagnetic and gravity and also laminary ether-dynamic are worked out. The models of the main electromagnetic, optical and gravity phenomena are worked out. The hydromechanical interpretation of the main quantum mechanics equations is given, the equations of electromagnetic field and gravitation are defined more precisely. The model of the stationary dynamic Universe based on the idea about the circulation of the ether in the steady galaxies and exchange of the ether between galaxies is worked out. The author explained that the ether-dynamics ideas make it possible to solve the cosmological paradoxes naturally, within the limits of the ideas about Euclidean space, uniformly passing singledirected time, non-destructible eternal matter. The monograph consists of preface, introduction, ten chapters, containing 36 paragraphs. Each chapter is provided with bibliography containing 423 names. There are 101 illustrations, 25 tables, 336 equations in the work. The volume of the monograph is 20 printer's sheets. [270 pages] Chapter 1. Brief History of the Ether contains brief review of theories and models of the ether, from Phales de Milet, ancient Chinese taoism, ancient Greek materialists to the modern ideas about the possibility of the ether existence. There is the paragraph in this chapter, where the main shortcomings of the known hypotheses, models and theories of the ether are stated, and idealization of the ether qualities practically by all authors, which has not allowed them to work out noncontradictory theory of the ether, is exposed. The significant thing is that these authors had not necessary information about existence and conduct of "elementary particles" of the matter, and existence of the known at present fundamental interactions. This information was obtained only in the 20th century when the problem of existence of the ether in the nature was actually excluded from the agenda. The little known data about the ether drift discovered by some scientists early in the 20th century (E. Morley (1901-1905), D.C. Miller (1921-1925) and A.A. Michelson himself (1929)) are given here. Chapter 2, Methodological Bases of the Ether-dynamics, consists of 3 paragraphs dealing with the methodology of ether-dynamics. Principle possibility and need for qualitative model presentation of phenomena are shown in paragraph 1; the same paragraph shows, that there were moments in the history of natural science when bringing of some forms of matter motions to others was considered as impossible, but later, these ideas were proved to be wrong. Paragraph 2 deals with the approach to determination of general physical invariants. It is shown here, that only universal categories, presenting in all, without exception, material formations and physical phenomena can be general physical invariants, such as: motion and three components of it -- matter, space and time. The rest categories are of particular nature and they can not be considered as universal categories. Paragraph 3 describes the ways of revealing the internal mechanisms of phenomena. The main proposed way is petition of the phenomena into components, exposure of general properties of elements, on which material formation can be partitioned, simulation of phenomena structures using corresponding analogies of macrocosm. The chapter comprises the conclusion about unity of physical laws at all levels of matter organization and permissibility of broad use of analogies for studying the microcosm phenomena. Chapter 3. The Structure of the Ether also consists of three paragraphs. In the first of them the most general properties of macro and microcosm are compared; this comparison leads to synonymous conclusion, that the material medium filling the Universe space, which further should be named as the ether is an ordinary real, viscous and compressible gas. Paragraph 2 of this chapter defines numerical values of the ether parameters in the atmosphere space, in this case ordinary formulas of electrostatics and gas mechanics are used, and the summary table of the ether parameters is listed, with such parameters as: density, pressure, temperature, sound velocity, thermal diffusivity coefficient, kinematic viscosity, viscosity (internal friction coefficient), adiabatic exponent, heat capacity, energy per volume unit. This table comprises also the basic parameters of amere -- element of the ether -- its mass, diameter, quantity per unit of volume, average length of free path and average velocity of thermal motion. Paragraph 3 is about basis forms of the ether motions and about their hierarchical interactions. The oldest, the most general form is the translational motion of a single amere; the elementary volume of the ether comprises three forms of motion -- diffusion, translational and rotary, to which further ensure seven kinds of motion. Corresponding formulas of gas mechanics are listed for all forms and kinds of motion. Chapter 4, The Structure of Gas Vortexes, consists of three paragraphs. The first paragraph is about formation and particularities of the structures of the gas vortexes, attention is paid to the role of boundary layer, ensuring the stability of the gas vortexes, epures of density distribution, circular velocity and angular velocity of rotation are also given. In this paragraph the author considers the structures of spiral thoroidal vortexes as gas formations capable to retain a dense gas. The second paragraph of chapter 4 is about the power of the gas vortexes, it is shown here, that the gas vortex is a mechanism ensuring spontaneous transformation of potential energy of the gas medium pressure into kinetic energy of the gas mass rotation. The third paragraph is about the peculiarities of gas motion in the vicinity of the spiral toroidal vortex. It is shown here that there are three kinds of motion in the vicinity of such a vortex -- circular, described by expression analogous to the expression of electro-static Gauss theorem; toroidalic, described by Biot Savart's law, which describes particles magnetic field; thermodiffusion, which is the consequence of the lowered temperature of the vortex surface and which forms gradient of temperature and pressing gradient in the environment, this motion is described by heat equation. [split, to be continued] From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 21:14:41 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Etherdynamics abstract 2/2 Message-ID: <199805091714.VAA06776@idg.chph.ras.ru> [continuaton of the split message] (Abstract of Etherdynamics) Chapter 5. Nucleons and Atomic Nuclei is about nucleons structures and construction of atomic nuclei. The first paragraph of this chapter defines ether-dynamics' parameters of proton and neutron, in particular, the structure and surface motion velocity and also internal energy and relaxation time. It is shown that neutron differs from proton only by presence of external boundary layer, in which the circular motion declines, that allows to accept the neutron as an electrically neutral particle. Paragraph 2 describes the boundary -- strong nucleons and distance-electromagnetic interactions of the spiral vortical rings -- nucleons. This paragraph determines an energy of strong nucleons interactions taking into account the condensation of the ether in the boundary internucleous layer. Coulomb's law is deduced for distance interaction of the spiral vortical rings. The point of a charge polarity, essence of the charge, point of a magnetic moment are shown here; it is shown that deduced gas-mechanical dependences are fully equivalent to corresponding electromagnetic relations. In paragraph 3 the models of atomic nuclei, hydrogen-helium group, general properties of component nuclei are considered, it is shown, that the basis of nucleous structures is alfapartical model This paragraph gives description of atomic nuclei structures, possessing the magic number of neutrons as basic structures of all atomic nuclei. Further, on the basis of analysis of nucleons interaction energies in nuclei, rules of nuclei structures organization are proposed and nuclei structures forming from basic structures by collecting the nucleons are considered in sequence. Nuclei structures of lithium-oxygen, fluorine-calcium, scandium-ruthenium, rhodium-gadolinium, terbium-actinium groups are considered. The forth paragraph of the chapter is about excitation state of vortical rings and conformity of this state with weak nucleons interaction. Chapter 6, Atoms and Molecules, gives description of structures of atoms electron shells as added to nuclei of the ether vortexes with opposite orientation of the ether spiral motion. The subject of the first paragraph is hydromechanical interpretation of quantum mechanics equations, for the purpose the data obtained by E. Madelung in 1926 are listed. On the basis of Schroedinger wave equation transformation, Madelung showed the conformity of quantum mechanics equations with hydrodynamics equations. In this paragraph some relations of quantum mechanics are deduced: line spectra Balmer's law, relations (law) of Plank, the point of Paul's exclusion principle is revealed and mechanical interpretation of conservation laws of quantum mechanics. In the same paragraph the rules of electron shells construction as added vortexes on the basis of psi-function knowledge are formulated. Paragraph 2 of chapter 6 is about the structures of atoms electron shells. It is shown here that proton can have three stable states: as a proton, neutron, i.e. a proton with boundary layer of the ether and as an atom, i.e. as a proton with added vortex of ether. Different states of added vortexes corresponding to different states of hydrogen are shown. Further, on the basis of analogies with Taylor's vortex structures of some atoms -- helium, lithium, beryllium and oxygen, as compound ether vortical systems are considered. In paragraph 3 organization principles of general for several atoms added vortexes -- principles of molecules organization are considered. As an example structures of hydrogen molecules H2, H4 and water H2O are given. Chapter 7, Electromagnetic Phenomena, deals with electricity and magnetism from positions of ether-dynamics' ideas. Paragraph 1 gives analysis of present hydromechanical models of electromagnetism and shows their drawbacks. Paragraph 2 gives hydromechanical model of electricity and magnetism on the basis of ideas about the ether as a real gas, this model corresponds to ether-dynamical conception. Interaction of spiral vortical rings is analysed and the essence of electrical and magnetic interactions is considered in sequence. The third paragraph deals with the structure of free electron and its basic parameters -- dimensions, density, rotation velocity are calculated. Paragraph 4 gives ether-dynamical interpretation of electrical and magnetic phenomena such as electric current, formation of magnetic field, self-induction mechanism, capacitor energy, the essence of permittivity and permeability, the origin of Lorentz force. Paragraph 5 pays attention to principal incompleteness of Maxwell's equations, describing magnetic field and certain their modernization is proposed in order to take into consideration some electromagnetic effects. Several additional members linked in particular, with: longitudinal spreading of electric field, intersection of conductors by magnetic field lines, compressibility of magnetic field, the limit of its diffusion and some other aspects are proposed and grounded. Paragraph 6 gives experimental data, proved the given refinement of electrodynamic field equations -- longitudinal dipole radiation, predicted deviations from Ampere's circuital law, functional dependences of conductors interinduction. Paragraph 7 is about the possibility of transformation of the four-dimensional MKSA system of Units into the threedimensional MKS system. Such a transition was possible after elucidation of the essence of permittivity, interpretated as ether density in atmosphere and the essence of electric charge, interpretated as a product of surface ether circulation by its density. The table of electromagnetic values in MKSA and MKS systems is given in this section. Chapter 8, Light, deals with subject of formation and diffusion of light and the essence of optical phenomena Paragraph 1 is about photon formations and their structure. It is shown, that the most precise analogy in hydromechanics is Carman's vortex trail, possessing, in principle, some photon properties: corpuscle-wave dualism, polarization. Ether-dynamical parameters of photon are calculated, including its density, the core dimensions, time of photon relaxation is determined. Dependence of photon wave length on time diffusion of photon at the expense of the ether viscosity are studied, the essence of spectra "red shift" as a result of loss of energy by photons as their movement in the ether (the exponential law of loss of energy by photons in time) is shown. In the second paragraph the mechanism of basic physical phenomena: reflection and refraction of light, interference, diffraction, aberration are studied. It is shown, that deduced formula expressions are in accordance with known optical laws. In case of calculation of aberration, taking into account the ether, dependences are deduced, which are in analogy with relative ones. It is predicted, that after reflection from metal mirror a photon spin should change its charge to opposite. Chapter 9, Gravity Interactions, consists of four paragraphs. Paragraph 1 shows, that the basis of gravity interaction of bodies is thermal diffusion processes in the ether. Proceeding from thermal conductivity equation the thermal diffusion interaction of bodies is deduced. The law of bodies attraction is deduced, which differs from known Newton's law of gravitation with additional cofactor, which considerably decreases the force of bodies intergravitation at long distances and do not practically influence upon the law on short distances. The temperature difference between the free ether and the surface of temperature nucleons boundary layer is determined. The reasons of Mercury perihelion shift are given, which are within the ordinary limits of classical mechanics. In the second paragraph the velocity of the gravitation diffusion is determined, this velocity is equal to sound velocity in the ether and considerably exceeds velocity of light, which is the velocity of diffusion of the second sound. In the third paragraph the calculation of absorption of the ether by gravitational masses is done. It is shown here, that the ether is permanently absorbing by all bodies and the ether enters bodies at escape velocity. For different celestial bodies the velocity of their mass increase is determined and the constant of time of its increase is determined. For the Earth this time constant is equal to 3.75 billion. It is shown, that absorption of the ether by the Earth is the reason of its volume increase of continents spreading and subduction of ocean floor under continent plates. In the paragraph 4 the hypothesis of origin of celestial bodies magnetic field as a result of formation of Coriolises forces in the ether in the surface layers of celestial bodies. These forces are the result of absorption of the ether and rotation of celestial bodies. The summary table of calculations of magnetic fields strengthes for bodies of solar system is given and comparison of calculated data with astronomical data is carried out, good coincidence of the results is shown. Chapter 10, The Ether and Cosmology, deals with the ether-dynamical model of Universe In paragraph 1 laminary interactions of bodies and circulation of the ether in stable galaxies and change with the ether among galaxies are studied. It is shown, that in spiral galaxy ether circulation is carrying out: along the spiral arms of a galaxy the ether flows are going to its nucleus, which is resulted in magnetic fields strength of the arms, after collision, these flows ensure formation of vortexes, which form protons in the nucleus of the galaxy. Formed proton-hydrogen gas is jointed in stars, which with the help of gas expansion have motion from the nucleous to periphery, the stars move along the arms to periphery, where protons disintegrate because of relaxation and after this return to state of free ether. In the second paragraph the resistance of the ether to motion of celestial bodies is considered. Some calculations are given, proving that the time constant of deceleration of the planets motion velocity is about 30 billion years. In the third paragraph the solar system is considered as an element of the Galaxy. Ether-dynamical hypothesis of origin and development of the solar system is presented, this hypothesis explains, in total, the peculiarities of the solar system structure: the mechanism of the planet formation is shown, the reasons of the sun rotation and the planets in the straight direction and in common plane are given, the reasons of excess orbital planets moment over the sun orbital moment are shown. In the forth paragraph the calculation of a galaxy latent mass is done. Paragraph 5 gives analysis of cosmological paradoxes--thermal dynamical paradox, photo metrical paradox and gravitation paradox and their natural solving within limits of ether-dynamical ideas. In conclusion the author make an assumption about need of development of special directions of ether-dynamics in biology and many other fields, because ether-dynamics gives principal opportunity to study the internal mechanism of phenomena and on this base found new directions of research. This monograph is written by Vladimir Atsukovsky, master in technical sciences, senior scientific worker. He is also an author of five books, including three monographs in physical instrument making, information theory and theoretical physics. One of the books was published in Czechoslovakia in 1972, in China in 1973. V. Atsukovsky is an author of more than twenty articles, twenty inventions and many other scientific works. His first article on ether-dynamics was published in "Ideen des exakten Wissens" magazine N 2 in Stuttgart, FRG, in 1974. He made more than 40 reports on problems of ether-dynamics at various scientific seminars and conferences. He is a specialist in the ether-dynamics field for more than 25 years. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 23:13:24 -0400 From: Ken Malkin Subject: Website Message-ID: <35527854.DD3E4192@gate.net> Alan, Every time I hit your site I am more and more impressed. You do a great job ! Thank you for the time and energy you are putting into the project. Yours is the manifestation of a world server if there ever was one. -K- From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:13:38 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: In a message dated 98-05-07 17:55:28 EDT, you write: >> Is this a battle zone or a theosophical "Brotherhood of Humanity" >list? Olcott lately is like a place under siege, if that's any indication. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:06:27 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Sex and spirituality Message-ID: Hello Konstantin, Konstantin: > Maybe it is because by his time some already recommended normal marriage >and it replaced celibate as "a standard of right spiritual life" :) >So he had to introduce something revolutionary new :) Marital infidelity is nothing new. Even things going on nowadays is probably nothing new. They just get magnified by the glare of openness and the media. >> He always said what people wanted to hear from him >th> Doesn't that also mean he is touching upon the "guru" within each of those > I'm not sure. Otherwise it would mean that these internal guru too >often follow mode & public opinion :) That would not be the internal guru. That's the guru of mode and public opinion. I have to admit, it can be difficult to differentiate the two, since we are saturated by the opinions of our parents, our country, our religious organization, our educational institution, and the media. That's when deep meditation is in order! Another good way to desaturate yourself is to believe in all of these opinions and see that they greatly conflict with one another. Once they cancel each other out, all you have left is you. :o) >> explaned all the psychic activity by action of the brain cells >th> He did not explain the soul through the action of the brain cells. > Of course not. I wrote "psychic activity". He said that people have >invented soul. We can deny soul but cannot deny psychic activity. >So he couldn't say that people invented psychic activity, too. Did he actually use the word "invented soul?" From what I know, he was concerned about people conceptualizing things, to the point where they spend most of the time pondering on things that could never be known for certain. For example, let's consider soul. It's enough that we are here and aware, without having to get into some conceptual arguments about what a soul is, where it's going, what's going to doom it, etc. All that conceptual argument will get you nowhere but into more conceptual argument, which will increase compartmentalization of the mind. (I'm not a Krisnamurti follower, so I'm very guilty of this. :o) ) As far as psychic activity, my last post without the mentioning of soul, still applies to psychic activity. In fact, he said that mind is energy. This is energy that is beyond the brain cells. As an aside, have you heard of the recent scientific research that support that mind is energy? Have you heard of the work of David Bohm, and other quantum physicists, that the mind is like a hologram? > Is CWL camp big? I know no one of his followers here in Russia. >There are some who read his books with an interest, like me, but no more. I'm really not qualified to answer that. But on the theosophical lists, there are quite a few of CWL followers. Some are in organizations not affiliated with the T.S., such as The Summit Lighthouse. Just as everyone's an individual, each theosophist takes from various teachers and combine them to a unique understanding. Among theosophists, we have Kabbalists, Krisnamurtites, CWL/Besant followers, Blavatsky followers, the Masters followers, Bailey followers, Magickians, etc. > I agree, but maybe he was the only one who could to fix that. >Instead of leaving TS he could direct its activity his own way. >Since he was a popular person in TS and members might pay attention. >But what he has done seems to me an escape from responsibility. >Maybe he didn't understand what theosophy is. It seems to me that >he confounded theosophy & CWL/AB teaching. I suspect that he haven't >read works by HPB & other authors of early TS. Anyway, he said that >had never read "Yoga sutra". I agree that he could have a huge impact on the growth and influence of the TS. Maybe he is shirking responsibility, who knows but Krisnamurti himself. It could also be he's widening his "organization" to include the whole world. Which is worse, that he read the early works and rejected them, or that he did not find it necessary to read them? > With beat regards, Konstantin. Best regards to you, too, Konstantin. I am communicating with you in the Soviet Union. Our big world is getting smaller! Your English is terrific. Have you studied it for a long time? Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:43:43 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: Bart Lidofsky writes > I don't want to get into another word-twisting war. Doss has mentioned >the incidents himself, numerous times. I can only conclude that he is >feigning ignorance, so that I say something that can be twisted against >me. I refuse to fall into that trap. Is this a battle zone or a theosophical "Brotherhood of Humanity" list? ??????? Alan :-( --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:43:14 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: from THEOS-L digest 1519/Sy/Bart Message-ID: <35512DD2.11C4C5EE@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > Any one interested can read the archives themselves and see what the issues > are and come to their own conclusions which is better than taking anyone's > opinion. Agreed. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 98 12:44:43 +0400 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Forming a study center Message-ID: <58435.zaitzev@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hi, Alan. > The Adyar TS is not the only official Theosophical Society. There is > also the TS Pasadena. I know that, but most (maybe all) members here are of TS Adyar. If I join Pasadena, it may happen that I'n the only member in Russia :) And I'll have to recruit other 6 members to form a lodge. Maybe I'll try to join both societies, if it is possible. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:41:20 EDT From: Bodhijack Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1520 Message-ID: <7853da83.3551abf1@aol.com> can someone please let me know how to un-subscribe? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:45:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaqtarin Triele Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <19980507214508.20619.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> > Is this a battle zone or a theosophical "Brotherhood of Humanity" list? > > ??????? > > Alan :-( And in this corner... --- ^ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:03:39 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Constructive suggestions for Daniel Message-ID: That's the reason why my funny bone got tickled when Daniel listed his titles. The titles looked like something out of yellow journalism. Either that, or it looked like one of Monty Python's exaggerated skits. Very catchy, though. Thoa :o) >I'm delighted, Daniel, that you are embracing an ethic of calm, >civil discussion about Theosophical history and look forward to >the results of this change of heart. It may well be a good thing >that your House of Cards is to be issued in a revised and >expanded version. I have a number of suggestions that would help >make it more credible to people who are not fundamentalist >Theosophists, and more constructive in encouraging discussion of >the issues addressed. > >1. Change the title. Using an individual's name followed by >"House of Cards" implies both a personal focus and a destructive >approach. Something much more neutral and objective-sounding >will add to your scholarly credibility. How about "M. and K.H.: >an Examination of Evidence Concerning Their Identities?" > >2. This is one I repeatedly implored you to do for years before >it came out. Get rid of the ALL CAPS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!! >It comes off like screaming from an enraged partisan rather than >scholarly investigation. > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:35:47 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Crocker" Subject: ACT Website Message-ID: Greetings Listmembers ... For anyone that has been waiting, the Website of The Association of Concerned Theosophists (ACT) is up and running on the web. The address of the homepage is: Much of the substance currently on the site has already been discussed in these online discussion lists - however, as ACT (and the TS) move towards election time, the site will be updated with new material. bookmark the site when (and if) you visit - and stop back periodically ... -JRC From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:16:50 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Forming a study center Message-ID: <6hS4zAAiDkU1Ewpz@nellie2.demon.co.uk> Konstantin Zaitzev writes > > Hi, Alan. > >> The Adyar TS is not the only official Theosophical Society. There is >> also the TS Pasadena. > > I know that, but most (maybe all) members here are of TS Adyar. >If I join Pasadena, it may happen that I'n the only member in Russia :) >And I'll have to recruit other 6 members to form a lodge. >Maybe I'll try to join both societies, if it is possible. > Some people belong to both of these *and* The United lodge of Theosophists! Even Theosophy International has members (104) :) Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:18:54 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <+hd5DLAeFkU1EwpQ@nellie2.demon.co.uk> Jaqtarin Triele writes >And in this corner... .. a carrot! --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 02:01:42 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Gnostic Archive Message-ID: Dear All, A link to the Gnostic Archive web page has bee added to the "TI" site. Click on "About Theosophy International" and the link will be found near the bottom of the page. The site has numerous links to other pages and sites of gnostic interest. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 20:23:24 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Website Message-ID: <35525E8C.3D6E@eden.com> I just visited the ACT website at: JRC has done a wonderful job and I am sure it demanded hours and hours of work. What this simply illustrates is anything is possible with a few dedicated individuals and *without* a large bank account to support. TS was built by the personal sacrifices of a large number of people many of whose name we do not even know. I am looking forward to a glorious future for TSA as a result of the task that ACT has undertaken. ...MKR From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 06:35:12 -0400 From: jim meier Subject: from THEOS-L digest 1519/Sy/Bart Message-ID: <199805060635_MC2-3C16-41CA@compuserve.com> Regarding some past threads, > M K Ramadoss wrote [to Bart]: Do you have any details of on what issues conflicts were as far as the > first two - Sy and Bing are concerned? to which Bart replied, > You have referred to them often enough. and Alan chipped in, >With respect, Bart, you do not answer the question, and Doss's reply to >the above suggests you are incorrect. with a minor chide for "unbrotherlyness," and Doss ended with >I don't recall mentioning any conflict. I am not feigning ignorance. Were I Bart, I would probably have answered much the same way. The posts on Bing -- or rather, the most recent series of threads on Bing -- was around the time of the election bylaws changes, as were most of Sy's posts. These went on for weeks, and anyone interested can pull up the old digests. In a nutshell (for those who were not on theos-l at the time), Sy's "problems" involved Florida section elections and Bing's came from National elections some years back, both involving legal determinations from TSA hq on election procedures. The "not pro Algeo" faction of the TSA (trying not to write "anti-Algeo," which would be less correct) stems in large part from the way Bing was treated -- and some say unfairly denied the opportunity to head the American Society. Since Algeo was the beneficiary *whether or not he was part of any allegedly unfair actions by hq* he naturally gets his share of the "anti-hq" feeling (and here, "anti" probably is accurate -- ala ACT, etc.). Doss, you may have forgotten, but they were both threads lasting more than a few days each and you did participate; does anything post here that you don't participate? :) Bart evidently remembers either the originals or followup-threads. Jim From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 98 10:02:24 +0400 From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" Subject: Sex and spirituality Message-ID: <49570.zaitzev@idg.chph.ras.ru> Hi Thoa. >Maybe he is simply theoretical? th> I heard he had an affair with someone's wife. Doss would know the story. Maybe it is because by his time some already recommended normal marriage and it replaced celibate as "a standard of right spiritual life" :) So he had to introduce something revolutionary new :) > He always said what people wanted to hear from him th> Doesn't that also mean he is touching upon the "guru" within each of those I'm not sure. Otherwise it would mean that these internal guru too often follow mode & public opinion :) > explaned all the psychic activity by action of the brain cells th> He did not explain the soul through the action of the brain cells. Of course not. I wrote "psychic activity". He said that people have invented soul. We can deny soul but cannot deny psychic activity. So he couldn't say that people invented psychic activity, too. th> I find it interesting what the Leadbeater camp and the Krisnamurti camp th> have to say about one another. I find misconceptions from both camp. Is CWL camp big? I know no one of his followers here in Russia. There are some who read his books with an interest, like me, but no more. th> I wouldn't say Krisnamurti alone set the wheel of change in action. I'd th> say several other events, including the political atmosphere of the TS, I agree, but maybe he was the only one who could to fix that. Instead of leaving TS he could direct its activity his own way. Since he was a popular person in TS and members might pay attention. But what he has done seems to me an escape from responsibility. Maybe he didn't understand what theosophy is. It seems to me that he confounded theosophy & CWL/AB teaching. I suspect that he haven't read works by HPB & other authors of early TS. Anyway, he said that had never read "Yoga sutra". > "Disciple's mirror", a book written down by Brigit Lomborg th> I haven't been focusing on sex beyond the earthly part of it. I'm just th> trying to get through the basic esoteric writings, and they are numerous! The original name of that book is "Disciplens Spejl". Maybe it will help you to find it. As an experiense with digest from AAB has shown, editors often seriously change a book title. With beat regards, Konstantin. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 03:06:43 -0700 From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" Subject: Drugs - Theosophy on their use Message-ID: <004701bd78ea$ae686700$03e78ccc@nwc.net> May 6th 1998 RE: DRUGS, etc. Dallas offers: In the past few days several opinions have been exchanged concerning the use of drugs. Mme.Blavatsky offers the following in THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, p. 262 : "Wine and spirit drinking is only slightly less destructive to the development of inner powers that the habitual use of hashish, opium. and similar drugs." In PRACTICAL OCCULTISM [ "Lucifer"April 1888 -- HPB Articles (ULT), Vol. II, p. 95 ] HPB wrote concerning the rules of occultism to be followed by "chelas" who desire to develop their own inner powers : "No animal food of whatever kind, nothing that has life in it, should be taken by the disciple. No wine, no spirits, or opium should be used; for these are like the "lamayin" (evil spirits), who fasten upon the unwary, they devour the understanding." In LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, (pp. 177-8) Mr. Wm. Q. Judge wrote to a friend : "Generally speaking, the habit of drinking intoxicants is due to the desire to get rid of what might be called the present personal consciousness. When people drink to try and drown sorrow, pain, worry, they clearly do it with that motive in view .. it is an effort to produce by extraneous aids what can only be done properly and lastingly by interior development ... Ultimately the race will come to realize that this can only be done by the identification of the ego with the higher instead of the lower nature ... [one] should be made to understand that the desire for drink is now a habit in certain lives in his body whose very existence depends upon their being fed with alcohol [or some other drug]. The desire is not in himself unless he is foolish enough to identify himself with the desire. Once he ceases to so identify himself, the desire will lose more than half its power over him." LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, 1946 Centennial Edition, ULT, p. 177-8 Dallas ================================= From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:57:50 -0400 From: Ken Malkin Subject: Bart's need Message-ID: <35505E4E.4FC951DF@gate.net> OK Bart, You've had another shot at using air to create wind. You've stolen another fifteen minutes in the sun. Give it up early this time my friend, everyone is tired off your silly ass "chase your tail" game.. Either PUT or SHUT UP. Answer the question you posed by your own mouth and verification of that requested from Doss a gentlemen or lets move on. Ken Malkin Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > With respect, Bart, you do not answer the question, and Doss's reply to > the above suggests you are incorrect. There was a period when Sy > himself posted a great deal of information about this on theos-l, of > course, so maybe he will respond to your question. > > In any event, might it not be construed by some that your reply to Doss > comes across as less than brotherly? I don't want to get into another word-twisting war. Doss has mentioned the incidents himself, numerous times. I can only conclude that he is feigning ignorance, so that I say something that can be twisted against me. I refuse to fall into that trap. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:50:17 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: from THEOS-L digest 1519/Sy/Bart Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980506085017.007a4490@mail.eden.com> Jim: There were a lot of discussions. All the discussions were on issues. At no time I suggested there being conflict. ..mkr At 06:42 AM 5/6/1998 -0400, you wrote: > > >Regarding some past threads, > >> M K Ramadoss wrote [to Bart]: Do you have any details of on what issues >conflicts were as far as the >> first two - Sy and Bing are concerned? > >to which Bart replied, > >> You have referred to them often enough. > >and Alan chipped in, > >>With respect, Bart, you do not answer the question, and Doss's reply to >>the above suggests you are incorrect. > >with a minor chide for "unbrotherlyness," and Doss ended with > >>I don't recall mentioning any conflict. I am not feigning >ignorance. > > >Were I Bart, I would probably have answered much the same way. The posts >on Bing -- or rather, the most recent series of threads on Bing -- was >around the time of the election bylaws changes, as were most of Sy's posts. > These went on for weeks, and anyone interested can pull up the old >digests. > >In a nutshell (for those who were not on theos-l at the time), Sy's >"problems" involved Florida section elections and Bing's came from National >elections some years back, both involving legal determinations from TSA hq >on election procedures. The "not pro Algeo" faction of the TSA (trying not >to write "anti-Algeo," which would be less correct) stems in large part >from the way Bing was treated -- and some say unfairly denied the >opportunity to head the American Society. Since Algeo was the beneficiary >*whether or not he was part of any allegedly unfair actions by hq* he >naturally gets his share of the "anti-hq" feeling (and here, "anti" >probably is accurate -- ala ACT, etc.). > >Doss, you may have forgotten, but they were both threads lasting more than >a few days each and you did participate; does anything post here that you >don't participate? :) Bart evidently remembers either the originals or >followup-threads. > >Jim > > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:40:08 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Bart's need Message-ID: <35508458.5B84F41@sprynet.com> Ken Malkin wrote: > > OK Bart, > You've had another shot at using air to create wind. You've stolen > another fifteen minutes in the sun. > Give it up early this time my friend, everyone is tired off your silly > ass "chase your tail" game.. > Either PUT or SHUT UP. Answer the question you posed by your own mouth > and verification of that requested from Doss a gentlemen or lets move > on. Someone who participated heavily in discussions (Doss) on the problems several individuals have had with the current TSA administration asked me, when I mentioned the existence of such problems, to detail them as if he knew nothing about them. And then you, who have also participated very heavily, use strong language and implies that I may be lying about the existence of the problems. Now, Jim has stated some of the problems to which I was referring. Now, I ask myself why Doss (and you) would ask me to state facts of which he (and you) are well aware. Based on past experience here, one highly probable reason is so that the words that I use to describe the problems can be twisted into an attack against me. And I will not fall into that trap. And if there is no such trap, then perhaps you should consider your own past behavior, and try to figure out why I would believe that there was one. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:43:35 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: from THEOS-L digest 1519/Sy/Bart Message-ID: <35508527.A0C6482@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > > Jim: > > There were a lot of discussions. All the discussions were on issues. At no > time I suggested there being conflict. Please look up "conflict" in the dictionary. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:10:51 -0700 From: Caldwell/Graye Subject: Re: Truth or Untruth? Message-ID: <35508B8B.518D@azstarnet.com> Thanks Paul for giving a detailed example (below) in response to Dallas' challenge. I would encourage Blavatsky students (i.e., Jerry HE, Dick Slusser, Frank, Tony M., Dallas, Mark Jaqua, Dara Eklund, Nicholas Weeks, David Pratt, etc.) to grapple with what Paul Johnson writes about below and post their comments on Theos- talk. I wonder how John Cooper who has *just finished* with Vol. I of HPB's Collected Letters dealt with this letter of HPB's. Daniel K. Paul Johnson wrote: > > The question of how much of HPB's claims about her personal > history, her Masters, the sources of her teachings, etc. are true > and how much untrue is the central question facing anyone who > tries to study her objectively. Anyone who asserts at the outset > that she always told the truth is simply ignoring the facts. > Nothing wrong with that for those who choose that path, but then > to make such a position the basis of harsh personal attacks on > others is indeed wrong. > > Just one example of an obviously false statement will suffice to > prove that she didn't *always* tell the truth. Just one example > of a demonstrably true claim suffices to prove that she didn't > always lie. Which leaves us in the position of having to decide > when she told the truth and when not, and why. Unless we opt out > of that difficult question and try to create a climate where no > one is allowed to bring it up without being attacked and > ostracized. Some religions like it that way; Theosophy was > certainly not intended to foster such a climate. > > One example of deliberate untruth, from TMR: > > ...Krishnavarma is described by HPB in letters she wrote her Aunt > Nadyezhda from New York in 1877. She mentions a Krishnavarma who > had come to New York from Multan in the Punjab by cart (?!) and > was staying with the Founders. He had praised Nadyezhda's last > letter to HPB and forwarded it to Swami Dayananda. HPB proceeds > to tell of a trip "almost to California" that she and Olcott had > taken with Krishnavarma: > > In Milwaukee and Nevada alll the ladies were all the time > walking near our windows and the terrace where we were sitting to > look at Krishnavarma; he is exceptionally beautiful although of > the color of a light coffee. In his long white pyjama dress and > a white narrow turban on his head with diamonds on his neck and > in bare feet he is really a curious sight among the Americans in > black coats and white collars...When one sees him the first time > he seems not more than 25, but there are moments he looks like a > 100 years old man.(HPB Speaks, vol. 1, pp. 198-99) > > The facts: Swami Dayananda's disciple Krishavarma never visited > the TS Founders in America, first meeting them in Bombay in 1879. > They had corresponded prior to departure with him and other Arya > Samaj members. Olcott and HPB never went together to Milwaukee > or to Nevada. And all the details are invented. > > What does this tell us about HPB? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Constructive suggestions for Daniel Message-ID: <199805061545.LAA02115@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> I'm delighted, Daniel, that you are embracing an ethic of calm, civil discussion about Theosophical history and look forward to the results of this change of heart. It may well be a good thing that your House of Cards is to be issued in a revised and expanded version. I have a number of suggestions that would help make it more credible to people who are not fundamentalist Theosophists, and more constructive in encouraging discussion of the issues addressed. 1. Change the title. Using an individual's name followed by "House of Cards" implies both a personal focus and a destructive approach. Something much more neutral and objective-sounding will add to your scholarly credibility. How about "M. and K.H.: an Examination of Evidence Concerning Their Identities?" 2. This is one I repeatedly implored you to do for years before it came out. Get rid of the ALL CAPS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!! It comes off like screaming from an enraged partisan rather than scholarly investigation. 3. Start out with some acknowledgment of what you see as the strengths of the book(s) and whatever value they contribute to the field before starting to attack two particular chapters. That will come across as much more fair and balanced. 4. Take into account all my responses as published on Dave Lane's website and revise your own epistemological assumptions accordingly. You might as well take advantage of my work in answering your objections. That's enough advice for a start. I don't doubt that you have some genuinely constructive intentions behind what you're doing, but believe that they've been overwhelmed by a destructive attitude and presentation that does nothing to help anyone. There are some extremely right-wing Theosophists out there who have and will continue to egg you on to be personally hostile in tone and to make untenable assumptions about HPB always telling the truth. But having allowed your discourse to be shaped by the demands or expectations of that tiny audience, you have greatly diminished your contribution to objective scholarly consideration of the subject. That can be set right by revising the work with the help of a nonpartisan observer, and I assume such can be found. Finally, I suggest that you reread David Pratt's piece, which makes all the same mistakes mentioned above, and consider it an example to be avoided rather than followed or promoted. You can do better, as evidenced by the tone of your recent posts, than he did at being fair, balanced and objective in tone. Best wishes on your new edition and all other things, Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:45:33 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: from THEOS-L digest 1519/Sy/Bart Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980506204533.0165bae0@mail.eden.com> At 11:51 AM 5/6/1998 -0400, you wrote: >M K Ramadoss wrote: >> >> Jim: >> >> There were a lot of discussions. All the discussions were on issues. At no >> time I suggested there being conflict. > > Please look up "conflict" in the dictionary. > > Bart Lidofsky Any one interested can read the archives themselves and see what the issues are and come to their own conclusions which is better than taking anyone's opinion. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:57:21 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: THEOS-BUDS digest 276 Message-ID: e: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:43:54 EDT >> From: Roxnow >> To: theos-buds@vnet.net >> Subject: Re: THEOS-BUDS digest 274 >> Message-ID: <9eae1fae.354dc61b@aol.com> >> >> Editor, I would like to subscribe to your monthly magazine >> >> Thank you. Welcome Roxanne, Theos-Buds is a very quiet list. You might want to also log onto other theosophical lists which are more active, such as TI-L, Theos-L, and theos-talk. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:44:18 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980505144418.00d3f7bc@mail.eden.com> At 02:02 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >M K Ramadoss wrote: > >> >Also, note that some of >> >the personalities involved in ACT have past histories of strained >> >relationships with the TSA management, and it is possible that the >> >>>>>>>>>>> clip<<<<<<<<<< >> >> MKR >> >> This is news to me. >> >> Can you provide details on the strained relationships you mention? > > I currently don't have the ACT newsletter in hand, and therefore don't >have the list of the titled members and their titles handy, and don't >wish to misrepresent or misspell. But, just to name three, both Sy, >Bing, and Paul have all had well-publicized conflicts with the TSA >management. > > Bart Lidofsky Do you have any details of on what issues conflicts were as far as the first two - Sy and Bing are concerned? mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:44:34 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Source Books Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980505144434.00d3f3e0@mail.eden.com> The viewer can be downloaded from www.adobe.com or www.tucows.com. mkr At 02:01 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Recently Eldon gave ftp links to two source books for theosophical >students. These are Balavatsky's "Key to Theoosophy" and Purucker's >"Fundamentals of Theosophy". Both are in Adobe Acrobat PDF >format and are very large - they are *complete* e-books. To view >them students will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer, which is available >from a number of sources. It is late here, so I don't have time to look >them up right now, but the viewer is often found on Magazine cover >disks, and can be found I am sure by a Yahoo or Alta Vista search. > >I have placed links to both books on the TI website (see below) > >Happy reading, > >Alan >--------- >THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: >http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ >E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:58:15 -0700 From: Caldwell/Graye Subject: K. Paul Johnson on HPB, the Mahatmas, Buddhism and Tibet Message-ID: <354F6F08.4074@azstarnet.com> K. Paul Johnson on HPB, the Mahatmas, Buddhism and Tibet K. Paul Johnson wrote: > > The current Newsweek (5/11/98) mentions Theosophy in an article > on pp. 64-65, "A Scratch in the Teflon Lama." The article is > about the conflict within Tibetan Buddhism over the worship of > Dorje Shugden, but becomes a quasi-book review of Donald S. > Lopez, Jr.'s *Prisoners of Shangri-La* (University of Chicago > Press) which examines Western distortions of Tibet. The review > doesn't mention HPB, but does say: > > In this century, spiritual seekers from the West invented a very > different Tibet. Several were eccentric American theosophists > who mined the Tibetan Buddhist texts (which they knew only in > translation) for the secrets of ancient occult knowledge. Their > personal agendas-- much like those of New Age spiritual seekers > of today-- advanced the image of Tibet as a treasure chest of > mustic lore long lost to the West.(p. 65) > > That image is not entirely inaccurate, but glamorizes and > mythologizes a real living culture. It was recently asked here > how HPB and Theosophy conflict with genuine Tibetan > understandings of their religion. Jerry has mentioned one > aspect, interval between births, but there are several. For > example the doctrine of the three kayas is presented by HPB as > alternative choices of vehicle, where in Tibetan tradition they > are simultaneous and not separable. Alexandra David-Neel, a > one-time Theosophist, reports in her Magic and Mystery in Tibet > that her Tibetan lamas regarded the stories about the Mahatma > letters as ridiculous and took them as a joke, insisting that no > real lama would do such things. I'm no expert on the topic but > will comment that here is another subject where HPB clearly has > learned a lot more by the end of her life than she knew when > writing *Isis* which makes the colossal error of calling Ladakh > "central Tibet." In posthumously published material she makes it > pretty clear that she has access to Tibetan primary source material but > does not fully understand it, warning that she might be mistaken > in her presentation. Daniel Caldwell replies: I haven't seen the book by Donald Lopez yet but I have been told that 7 or 8 pages are devoted to Theosophy, HPB and the Mahatma Letters. Lopez is not "negative" toward Theosophy and HPB, but overall his review is not favorable. Again I haven't read the book. Paul in his above quoted posting brings up some *extremely important issues* that need to be seriously discussed. I hope various subscribers on Theos-talk and Theos-l will give some serious thought to these issues. Are Paul's observation on HPB, Tibet and the Mahatmas accurate? [NOTE: I know one fairly well known Blavatsky student and scholar who would agree with much of what Paul has written.] Even if we accept all these observations as true and accurate, what legitimate and reasonable conclusions may be drawn from them about HPB and her claims? If these observations are more or less true, do they negate any of the claims put forward by HPB and the Mahatmas? Does Alexandra David-Neel's account seriously invalidate the alleged precipitation of letters from the Masters M and KH? If so, why? If not, why? Why should we believe these Tibetan lamas? Do these Tibetan lamas interviewed by Alexandra David-Neel have misconceptions or biases? Etc. Etc. Another example: One well known Blavatsky student has asked the current Dalai Lama if he knew of the BOOK OF DZYAN. The Dalai Lama said he knew of no such book in the Tibetan religious writings. What can we reasonably conclude from this? Etc. Etc. I hope everyone (on both sides of the issues) will challenge their own thinking and assumptions. Let's have a thoughtful, calm discussion even if some of us have disagreements. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:25:49 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <354F83DD.37841DD4@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > Do you have any details of on what issues conflicts were as far as the > first two - Sy and Bing are concerned? You have referred to them often enough. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:36:17 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980505163617.00779ff4@mail.eden.com> At 05:31 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >M K Ramadoss wrote: > >> Do you have any details of on what issues conflicts were as far as the >> first two - Sy and Bing are concerned? > > You have referred to them often enough. > > Bart Lidofsky I don't recall my referring to any "conflict" as far as either of them are concerned. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 05:42:29 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Energy_N_Emptiness (resend) Message-ID: Mark told me that he never receive this post in his theos-l digest. Thus, I am resending it. *********** Welcome K! I enjoyed your post. I have the following comments: K: >C.W. Leadbeater, the great & terrible, illustrated it good in "Occult >Chemistry" (p. 21 in 1919 edition) >
>"The atom can scarcely be said to be a "thing", though it is tha material >out of which all things physical are composed. It is formed by the flow of >the life-force and vanishes with its ebb. When this force arises in >"space"* - the apparent void which must be filled with substance of some >kind, of inconceivable tenuity - atoms appear; if this be artificially >stopped for a single atom, the atom disappars; there is nothing left. >Presumably, were that flow checked but for an instant, the whole physical >world would vanish, as a cloud melts away in the empyrean. It is only the >persistence of that flow which maintains the physical basis of the >universe. >_________ >* When Fohat "digs holes in space"." >
The paragraph before this gives a clarification to this. "In this ultimate state of physical matter two types of atoms have been observed: they are alike in everything save the direction of their whorls and of the force which pours through them. In the one case force pours in from the "outside," from fourth-dimensional spaceð(ðThe astral plane) and passing through the atom, pours into the physical world. In the second, it pours in from the physical world, and out through the atom into the "outside" again,ð i.e., vanishes from the physical world." I put this in to clarify the meaning of the "disappearance" and "appearance" of the atom. For those who do not understand the passing on to various planes, SDI, p. 148 gives a good description. >Many people like to say that nature of things is emptyness, but they >normally don't try to underatans what it really means. Though nature of >things is emptyness, nature of akasha isn't emptiness, but the energy >creates emptiness in akasha and thus creates the things. Some scientists >defined the physical vacuum as "superdense degenerated media". This "superdense degenerated media" is the "ether" that permeates through all physical matter. This "ether" also varies in density depending on the plane, with the most ethereal being Akasa or Space. The energy that permeates all, that "creates emptiness" is the energy of creation, the outbreath of the One. This energy was borned of "emptiness." It is the life energy that cannot be contained. It is Desire projecting outside of itself. It is a dream that is playing itself out. Yet this energy and this outside projection is not a separate or outside thing but an indivisible part of the One. The substance of the dreaming, the Mayavic matter, resulted from the tension of separation between the Mother Root of Matter and the Father Spirit. The projection is the matter that "came out" of the "emptiness." This "emptiness" is actually the backbone of Mayavic matter, a "space" in which matter can find its place, and where it can exist. Matter cannot exist without this "emptiness." >Th> called "ether." Ether, as science has defined it, does not exist. >It is not exactly so. It would be more correct to say that "science has >defined that ether does not exist" ;) For Einstein it was simply >unnecessary hypothesis, like god for Laplace. And moreover, Einstein kept >that opinion not more than 10-15 years. Yet in 1920's he wrote: >"Corresponding the general relativity theory, the space is inconceivable >without ether" (Ether & relativity theory, 1920) "We cannot in theoretical >physics to handle without ether, i.e. continuum provided with physical >characteristics" (On ether, 1924) >(of course it's in reverse translation form russian.) That is also true. However, ether, as a definite property defined by science, does not exist. Of course, some of the grossest properties of ether as defined by science can be considered. >Here in Russia several scientists are continuing to develop theories of >ether. Some of them derived equations known as "quantum" & "relativistic" >assuming an ether to be a gaseous meduim and remaining on the classical >"Newtonian" basis. Leadbeater wrote that an ether has its pressure and it >is inconceivably high, Aciukovsky in 1980's has calculated it to be 10^29 >atmospheres. He makes relativity obsolete, deriving everything on >mechanical basis. I can post a short sketch of his main work, "Ether- >dynamics", if someone's interesting in it. So, we still cannot say that >science has acknowldged an ether yet, but we already can say that there's >no unified opinion. Ultimately, it would be impossible to define ether. Ether, ultimately, is Mulaprakriti, the spirit-substance that defies description, for it is "not this." I would be very interested in reading the work, if you wouldn't mind posting it. Thanks. I wish you the best of luck in setting up your study center. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 05:43:31 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: sex_n_spirituality (resend, sorry) Message-ID: Hi K again, K.: >Mon, 27 Apr 1998 M K Ramadoss wrote: >R> (Leadbeater)Theosophy (and ES)followers are firm believers in the >"theory" R> that with sex you cannot progress spiritually, in spite of all >the >It isn't Leadbeater's invention. Blavatsky wrote that "in practical >occultism all sexual contacts are prohibited". But most of so called >followers, as Bailey, Roerich, Prophet, Lomborg - were all married. >They & their followers say that now times has changed & sex is allowed now. Modern psychology has discovered that such strict sexual prohibition only creates neuroticism and is unhealthy for the psyche. I'd rather follow a leader with a healthy sexual outlook, not extreme one way or the other. >R> undisputed allegations about Leadbeater on sex matters. (Some >Leadbeater R> followers try to clear him by saying that he was never >convicted and R> hence in "our" system of justice, a man is innocent until >proven guilty.) >In "Letters of masters of wisdom" vol.I K.H. warns Leadbeater that because >he is a priest, he may yield karma of that "caste". So it makes me suspect >that convictions against Leadbeater could be false, as those made by other >priests against Blavatsky. Either way, I wouldn't discount Leadbeater or Blavatsky's studies based on their personal shells. They're both dead, so what does it matter? Only their concepts survive. If some concepts don't appeal to me, I don't use it. A true student of theosophy will make discerning choices of any teaching from any teacher. To blindly and rigidly follow anybody goes against all that a seeker of truth would try to do. >R> And he [K] never "presented" himself as being celibate. According to the >Did he ever mentioned, had he a sex himself? Maybe he is simply theoretical? I heard he had an affair with someone's wife. Doss would know the story. >>So sex becomes the one issue which is our very own, which is not >>second-hand. And in the act of sex there is a forgetting of oneself, >>one's problems and one's fears. In that act there is no self at all." >He always said what people wanted to hear from him, so in it lies the >secret of his popularity. Doesn't that also mean he is touching upon the "guru" within each of those people? Since his popularity reflects that, that would mean that his teaching is mostly true. Whatever our education and our background, it all comes down to what rings true within us after we try to discard all the outside distractions. >Similiarly of Osho Rajnish & others of >that kind. Anyway, what other he could recommend, if he denied existence >of any kind of soul and explaned all the psychic activity by action of the >brain cells? It's natural for lokayata. He did not explain the soul through the action of the brain cells. I don't think he went on at length about soul. Instead, his focus was on conceptual thinking, which makes use of psycho-somatic energy. Contrary to what you say, he wants to use the mind-energy which will not go back to the brain cells. Instead of using the computer mind, which is composed mostly of memories and preset ideas, he wanted us to increase our awareness. This awareness uses our dynamic mind-energy, which is more creative, more total. I would consider his teaching to be an enhancement to all the other teachings, and not a detriment to them. I find it interesting what the Leadbeater camp and the Krisnamurti camp have to say about one another. I find misconceptions from both camp. >I think that Krishnamurti was the greatest CWL's mistake, much worse than >his sexual affairs. Impurity of one, even leading TS member doesn't mean a >thing at all, but Krishnamurti destroyed the work of many years and >converted TS from a newage locomotive to mere club of amateurs of the >occult. I wouldn't say Krisnamurti alone set the wheel of change in action. I'd say several other events, including the political atmosphere of the TS, the deference to gurus, and the hierarchical structure helped it along. I don't believe any event in this world occurs singularly. If you think on it deeply enough, everyone's to blame. Everything is the flow of the tao. Maybe it was time the atmosphere of Leadbeater's time be changed to democracy and independence. In this case, the meaning of democracy includes the world outside of the occult societies. >Returning to sex, I think that many arguments pro are collected in "Sex & >marriage", the digest from several Bailey books. >BTW, have anyone of you read "Disciple's mirror", a book written down by >Brigit Lomborg? Is it popular among the western theosophists? That book >states that sex is not prohibited, and moreover, recommended for the >disciples. An author, who declared himself to be that Tibetan who wrote >Bailey books, stated that an experiment with the groups of disciples has >failed because humanity isn't developed enough, so hie- rarchy tried an >experiment with the least possible group - a pair. One member of the pair >is more developed (approx. one life ahead) and leads another one. An >author, whoever he could be, seems to me a very informed person; our >Roerich fans don't deny that though regard him to be a black lodge >emissar. Of course the book overviews different questions, most of them >have no obvious connection with a sex. Sounds interesting. I think the balance of yin and yang, whether it be in a couple, or within one person, is the best solution. I haven't been focusing on sex beyond the earthly part of it. I'm just trying to get through the basic esoteric writings, and they are numerous! Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:43:33 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: Bart Lidofsky writes >M K Ramadoss wrote: > >> Do you have any details of on what issues conflicts were as far as the >> first two - Sy and Bing are concerned? > > You have referred to them often enough. > > Bart Lidofsky With respect, Bart, you do not answer the question, and Doss's reply to the above suggests you are incorrect. There was a period when Sy himself posted a great deal of information about this on theos-l, of course, so maybe he will respond to your question. In any event, might it not be construed by some that your reply to Doss comes across as less than brotherly? Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:53:08 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <354FC284.D3A8A2D2@sprynet.com> Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > With respect, Bart, you do not answer the question, and Doss's reply to > the above suggests you are incorrect. There was a period when Sy > himself posted a great deal of information about this on theos-l, of > course, so maybe he will respond to your question. > > In any event, might it not be construed by some that your reply to Doss > comes across as less than brotherly? I don't want to get into another word-twisting war. Doss has mentioned the incidents himself, numerous times. I can only conclude that he is feigning ignorance, so that I say something that can be twisted against me. I refuse to fall into that trap. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 01:00:55 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980506010055.0085ca10@mail.eden.com> At 09:55 PM 5/5/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > >> With respect, Bart, you do not answer the question, and Doss's reply to >> the above suggests you are incorrect. There was a period when Sy >> himself posted a great deal of information about this on theos-l, of >> course, so maybe he will respond to your question. >> >> In any event, might it not be construed by some that your reply to Doss >> comes across as less than brotherly? > > I don't want to get into another word-twisting war. Doss has mentioned >the incidents himself, numerous times. I can only conclude that he is >feigning ignorance, so that I say something that can be twisted against >me. I refuse to fall into that trap. > > Bart Lidofsky I don't recall mentioning any conflict. I am not feigning ignorance. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 13:45:27 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Nathan Greer's Letter Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980504134527.0121d9d0@mail.eden.com> I just posted a response to Bart's response to my msg on the subject. Please delete the first line of the just posted response. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:41:32 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Late response Message-ID: Jaqtarin Triele writes >DO YOU YAHOO!? Only on the website. No Hairy Purple Bunnies there, though. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 03:51:21 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Source Books Message-ID: Recently Eldon gave ftp links to two source books for theosophical students. These are Balavatsky's "Key to Theoosophy" and Purucker's "Fundamentals of Theosophy". Both are in Adobe Acrobat PDF format and are very large - they are *complete* e-books. To view them students will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer, which is available from a number of sources. It is late here, so I don't have time to look them up right now, but the viewer is often found on Magazine cover disks, and can be found I am sure by a Yahoo or Alta Vista search. I have placed links to both books on the TI website (see below) Happy reading, Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 23:09:13 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <354E82D9.C51F1AF2@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > >Also, note that some of > >the personalities involved in ACT have past histories of strained > >relationships with the TSA management, and it is possible that the > >>>>>>>>>>> clip<<<<<<<<<< > > MKR > > This is news to me. > > Can you provide details on the strained relationships you mention? I currently don't have the ACT newsletter in hand, and therefore don't have the list of the titled members and their titles handy, and don't wish to misrepresent or misspell. But, just to name three, both Sy, Bing, and Paul have all had well-publicized conflicts with the TSA management. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 09:31:42 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Site with Spanish Material on Theosophy Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980505093142.01262420@mail.eden.com> The following site has some good Spanish material as well as material in English. You may want to visit the site: http://www.whidbey.com/TheosophicalLiterature/ Thanks to Dallas for the info. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Newsweek mentions Theosophy Message-ID: <199805051528.LAA26561@vlinsvr.vsla.edu> The current Newsweek (5/11/98) mentions Theosophy in an article on pp. 64-65, "A Scratch in the Teflon Lama." The article is about the conflict within Tibetan Buddhism over the worship of Dorje Shugden, but becomes a quasi-book review of Donald S. Lopez, Jr.'s *Prisoners of Shangri-La* (University of Chicago Press) which examines Western distortions of Tibet. The review doesn't mention HPB, but does say: In this century, spiritual seekers from the West invented a very different Tibet. Several were eccentric American theosophists who mined the Tibetan Buddhist texts (which they knew only in translation) for the secrets of ancient occult knowledge. Their personal agendas-- much like those of New Age spiritual seekers of today-- advanced the image of Tibet as a treasure chest of mustic lore long lost to the West.(p. 65) That image is not entirely inaccurate, but glamorizes and mythologizes a real living culture. It was recently asked here how HPB and Theosophy conflict with genuine Tibetan understandings of their religion. Jerry has mentioned one aspect, interval between births, but there are several. For example the doctrine of the three kayas is presented by HPB as alternative choices of vehicle, where in Tibetan tradition they are simultaneous and not separable. Alexandra David-Neel, a one-time Theosophist, reports in her Magic and Mystery in Tibet that her Tibetan lamas regarded the stories about the Mahatma letters as ridiculous and took them as a joke, insisting that no real lama would do such things. I'm no expert on the topic but will comment that here is another subject where HPB clearly has learned a lot more by the end of her life than she knew when writing *Isis* which makes the colossal error of calling Ladakh "central Tibet." In posthumously published material she makes it pretty clear that she has access to Tibetan primary source material but does not fully understand it, warning that she might be mistaken in her presentation. Cheers, Paul From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:09:31 -0400 From: Ken Malkin Subject: Re: THEOS-BUDS digest 275 Message-ID: <354E045B.1C8BA3DD@gate.net> Roxanne Looks like your on theos-buds. Welcome ! -K- theos-buds@vnet.net wrote: > THEOS-BUDS Digest 275 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: THEOS-BUDS digest 274 > by Roxnow > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:43:54 EDT > From: Roxnow > To: theos-buds@vnet.net > Subject: Re: THEOS-BUDS digest 274 > Message-ID: <9eae1fae.354dc61b@aol.com> > > Editor, I would like to subscribe to your monthly magazine > > Thank you. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:20:53 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: When you gotta grow ... Message-ID: Thesophy International Welcomes Peter S. Hamilton! Personal welcomes to peter@uppertriad.org Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:25:09 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Copyright Issues Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980503192509.009848a0@mail.eden.com> I recently came across a couple of instances of silly to outrageous copyright claims on the cyberspace. Is anyone knowledgeable in copyright matters in cyberspace want to comment for the general benefit and benefit of Humanity? mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:55:34 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: "TI" Website Message-ID: Dear All, I have been having a glitch or two while uploading new links to the website below. This is now fixed, but users may need to "refresh" the site when logging on to it (If using Internet Explorer, anyhow). Apologies for any problems encountered when trying to access the new links. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:09:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaqtarin Triele Subject: Re: Late response Message-ID: <19980504040911.21301.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> > I did a complete OT Bible check. Nothing at all relevant to be found. > Same with carrots. > > Alan *smile*; any exoteric links to the esoteric meaning of the carrot were removed from the religious texts of the world by the hairless purple bunnies. I did a little research myself. When taken out of context, some statements could be twisted enough to signify a weapon, but I seriously doubt that a weapon was ever meant in any case. My research wasn't complete, however. I thank you for taking the time. I will be going to the "big city" pretty soon, so I should be able to locate whatever book in which this sword was supposedly found. I am beginning to think it doesn't exist, and that it is a fictional item formed by the wonderful imagination of my Scottish friend. She tells such excellent stories...*growl* I can't find a reference to it anywhere. I'll let everyone know what I came up with when I return. --- ^ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:11:22 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: Theosophical Encyclopedia Message-ID: I received the following request from Phillip Harris regarding his seeking help to finish the Theosophical Encyclopedia. He can be reached at: harrisps@opera.iinet.net.au -- Eldon Tucker ---- Dear Friend, The Theosophical Encyclopedia project is moving along much more quickly now we have the boon of the Internet and e.mail. Of the some 1,300 articles listed all but about 260 have been either written or allocated by or to about 300 writers. It has been a long process -- ten years in fact, so far! The work will be in two volumes. We need all the help we can get to clear up the last items and I though that you might be willing to help us. I include a list of the articles outstanding at this time. The lengths indicated are purely arbitrary and subject to change in the light of discussion with the writer (within reason!). We will give a prospective writer all the help he or she may request regarding style of treatment etc. If you are kind enough to draw this request to the attention of someone not on the Internet my mail address is: Philip S. Harris 1540 Bunning Road, Mt.Helena, WA Australia 6082 Length/Length 0300 Alchemy 0100 Alexandrian School 0100 All-India Home Rule League 0500 Architecture, Theosophy in 0200 Arkansas Camp 0100 Aromatic Therapy 0500 Arundale, Rukmini devi 1000 Astral Body 2000 Astral Plane 1000 Astrology 0500 Atmic Plane 0250 Auric Egg 0150 Barker, A Trevor 0050 Bendit, Laurence J 0050 Bendit, Phoebe 0250 Besant Memorial School (Adyar) 1000 Besant, Bibliography 0500 Besant, Biographies of 1500 Bible, Holy 0100 Blavatsky Institute, The 0050 Blavatsky Trust 1000 Blavatsky, Bibliography 0500 Blavatsky, Biographies of 0075 Bowen, Robert 0050 Boy Scouts Association in India 0050 Braille Literature, Theosophical Branch of 1500 Buddhic Body 1500 Buddhic Plane 1000 Buddhism, Japanese and Korean 0100 Buddhist Schools in Sri Lanka 0200 Bulgaria, Theosophy in 0100 Camps, Theosophical, list of 0050 Cataclysms 2000 Causal Body 0050 Cayce, Edgar 0350 Celestial Beings 0100 Central Hindu College 1000 Chain, Planetary 0250 China, Theosophy in 0300 Christmas, Origin and Esoteric Significance 0500 Civilisations, Theosophical View of 0250 Colombia, Theosophy in 0050 Colonia Teosofica (Argentinan Camp) 0100 Comets 0250 Cook, Sidney A 0050 Cooper-Oakley, A J 0500 Cosmic Priciples 1000 Cosmology, Theosophical 0100 Coulomb, Emma 0500 Creation, According to Theosophy 0250 Cross, Symbolic Significance of 0100 Crucifixion, Symbolic Significance of 1000 Dead Sea Scrolls 0250 Deity, Blavatsky on 0050 Devaloka 0300 Devas 0300 Discipleship 0100 Eckankar 0050 Eclectic Theosophical School 0050 Egg, as Theosophical Term 0250 Egypt, Theosophy in 1000 Egyptian Religion, Ancient 1750 Elemental Kingdoms 0250 Emblem, Of the Theosophical Society 1000 Esoteric School of Theosophy 0750 Essenes 2000 Etheric Body 0100 Evil, Blavatsky on 1000 Evolution, Theosophical view of 0050 Eye(s), Esoteric Significance of 0100 Fabian Society, and A Besant 0500 Fairies 0050 Far Horizons Sierra Camp 0025 Fellowship School 0025 Fire Philosophers 0500 Fohat 0200 Freemasonry 0100 Gaia 0500 Germain, Comte de St 2500 Gnosticism 0200 Greece, Theosophy in 0750 Greek Religion , Ancient 0200 Group Souls 0300 Guna(s) 0100 Happy Valley School 0025 Hindu School, Almora 0025 Hindu, The (Pub) 0100 Ideation, Divine 0050 Independant Theosophical Foundation 0200 Indo-Pacific Theosophical Federation 0050 International Theosophical Brotherhood 0100 Intra-American Theosophical Federation 0250 Israel, Theosophy in 2000 Jesus the Christ, Theosophical View of 1000 Judaism 0500 Kabalah (Kabbalah) 0050 Kaiser-i-Hindi Medal 0100 Kalki-Avatar 0050 King Arthur's School, North Sydney 0050 Kirilian Photography 0300 Laya Yoga 0150 Loka(s) 0050 Lords of Venus 0200 Mahatmas 0100 Maitreya, Lord 0200 Malasia, Theosophy in 0300 Mantra Yoga 0250 Matter and Energy 0250 Maya Yoga 2000 Meditation 2000 Mental Body 1500 Mental Plane 0150 Miracles 1000 Monad 0150 Moon, Theosophical Significance of 0050 Motion, Blavatsky on 0050 Mundane Egg 2000 Mystery Traditions and Cults 1000 Mythology 0500 Nag Hammadi Library 0100 Necromancy 0100 Neo-Platonism 0050 New India (Newspaper?) 0100 Oahspe 0150 Ocean of Theosophy (Pub) 0050 Olcott Memorials 0050 Order of the Rising Sun, The 0050 Overshadowing 0100 Padma Kalpa 0075 Panchen, Bandhechan Rimpoche 0200 Paracelsus 0200 Paraguay, Theosophy in 0050 Parliament of Religions 0100 Patala 0100 Pathamam Jhanam 0200 Perkins, James Scudday 0250 Pistis Sophia 0500 Planes 0500 Planetary Spirits 0200 Portugal, Theosophy in 0050 Pratyeka-Buddha 0200 Prayers, Used by Theosophical Society 0300 Precipitation, Phenomena of 0100 Predestination 0050 Primordial Fire 0050 Psyche 0500 Psychology, Theosophy in 1000 Publishing Houses, Theosophical 0200 Puerto Rico, Theosophy in 0150 Pumpkin Hollow Farm 0050 Punarjanmajaya 0100 Purgatory 0050 Purusha-Sakti 0200 Pythagorus 0200 Qualifications, for Spiritual Path 0750 Race(s), in Theosophy 0050 Rajput Press, The 1000 Rays, The Seven 0350 Rosicrucianism 0500 Rounds 0200 Rumania, Theosophy in 0500 Russia, Theosophy in 0050 Sabda-Brahma 0050 Saddharma Pundrika 0250 Saint-Germain, Count de 0050 Sakti 0150 Sakto Yoga 0050 Salamanders 0150 Samadhi Yoga 0050 Samma Sambuddha (P) 0050 Sankhya Yoga 0050 Saptaparna 0050 Sat Karma 0050 Satcakrabheda 0050 Satchitananda 0050 Satguru 0050 Satya-Loka 0050 Schmiechen, Hermann 0100 School of the Wisdom (Adyar) 0200 Sections, of Theosophical Society (list) 0250 Septenary Laws 0050 Shaivism 1000 Shamanism 0100 Shambhala 0050 Shankaracharya 0150 Shell(s) 0250 Sikhism 1500 Sinnett, Alfred Percy 0300 Skandas 0200 Sleep, Theosophical View of 0100 Socrates 0250 Solar Logas 0500 Solar System, Occult view of 0150 Sons of Fire 0075 Sons of Mind 0200 Sorcery 0100 Soul, Theosophical view of 0500 Spain, Theosophy in 0030 Spirillae 0050 Spirit -Matter 0100 Spirit, Theosophical View of 0100 Spiritual Path, The 0050 Sri Ram, Shrimati Bhagirathi 0100 Still-light Centre 0100 Sun, Theosophical Concepts of 0200 Swedenborg, Emmanuel 0050 Sylphs 0500 Symbolism 0050 Syzygy 0250 Talmud 0100 Taormina Community 0300 Temple of the People 0050 Temple of the Rosy Cross, The 0150 Theology, Blavatsky on 0025 Theosophical Toward Democracy League 0050 Theosophical Worker (Pub) 0050 Theosophy in Action (Pub) 1000 Therapeutic Touch 0100 Third Eye 0050 Thor 0050 Thoth, Books of 0500 Thought Forms 0050 Thought(s), Blavatsky on 0200 Tibet, Blavatsky on 0150 Trinity, Theosophical View of 0050 Tripitaka 0030 Triple Hypostasis 0100 Truth, Blavatsky on 0100 Twin-Souls 0050 Vaisak Festival, The 0050 Venetian, The 1000 Venezuela, Theosophy in 0075 Vestures 0100 Vidyodaya College for Buddhist Priests 0250 Vietnam, Theosophy in 0300 Virgin Birth, Theosophical view of 0250 Vivekananda, Swami 0300 Vivisection (of Animals) 0250 Voodooism 0050 Wadia, B P 0500 Witchcraft 0100 World Congresses, Theosophical 0200 World Theosophical Youth Federation 0300 Yantra Yoga 0100 Yoga Nidra 0100 Yoga Vidya 0100 Young Theosophists, Federations of 0500 Zoroastrianism From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 13:27:33 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980504132733.00b52b40@mail.eden.com> At 03:36 PM 5/2/1998 -0400, Bart Lidofsky you wrote: MKR: >> 1. Why have we not heard from any of the prominent theosophists who command >> respect and trust of a large number of members? > BART: > Probably just because they command respect and trust. I long ago noted >that Dora Kunz, for example, is very free with her strong opinions. If, >however, you ask her for her opinion, and tell her that a decision you >are making depends on it, she becomes far more moderate. Also, I would >not be surprised if they, like myself, support most, but not all, the >ACT points, and feel that they cannot, and therefore should not, answer >either way until they have more information (on things such as the 1996 >elections, the staff situation at Olcott, etc.). >Also, note that some of >the personalities involved in ACT have past histories of strained >relationships with the TSA management, and it is possible that the >>>>>>>>>>> clip<<<<<<<<<< MKR This is news to me. Can you provide details on the strained relationships you mention? If this is true, then everyone here can view the contents of ACT Newsletter with this background info and use their intelligence to make up their own mind. If not, it would not be a fair representation of the motives of those who have taken the time and trouble to get the ACT going in the interests of TS/TSA. Also it will cloud and bias the judgement of members and prospective members who read ACT Newsletter. As we all believe "There is no Religion Higher than Truth", we should be even handed to all. BART: >The theosophists who command respect and trust do so with good >reason, one of which is that they do NOT speak (or type) without >thinking things through, first. MKR >From what I have seen, level of respect and trust is built over a long period of time. But they can be destroyed by a few instances by ones actions. I think there is more to it than *thinking* *before* *acting* -- by word (written, spoken or typed) or deed. BART >I believe that the National Secretary is an elected post, as well, but MKR I believe the National Secretary is an appointed post. And also he is a full time employee who can be terminated at the pleasure of the National President. BART >A possibility >which I HOPE is not true is that they are thinking that if they ignore >it, it will go away. MKR Who knows. I also wish it is not the case. MKR >> 3. Why John Algeo is not directly dealing with the issues raised and defend >> or explain anything instead of pointing the support from paid employees >> over whose job security he has unilateral power (and few other members)? > BART > The only reason I can think of (and I have NOT asked him directly) is >that he doesn't want the issues to become personal, and that he believes >that anything he says will be twisted against him. > MKR There are many policy matters that ACT has raised. Most leaders address them head on and resolve them quickly. MKRamadoss From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:43:54 EDT From: Roxnow Subject: Re: THEOS-BUDS digest 274 Message-ID: <9eae1fae.354dc61b@aol.com> Editor, I would like to subscribe to your monthly magazine Thank you. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:30:27 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980502163027.016043c0@mail.eden.com> At 03:36 PM 5/2/1998 -0400, you wrote: >M K Ramadoss wrote: >...clip... >>judgment based on a 1/4-written web site (and you, I believe, were the >one who posted the address of that not-ready-for-public-consumption web >site). > ...........clip.................. > Bart Lidofsky I think it was first posted by someone else. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:39:41 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Update Message-ID: The URL below now has two new links on the front page (near the bottom), Enjoy, Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:33:17 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: Bart Lidofsky writes >When I discussed these lists with certain TSA officials, I was asked to >not use the NYTS account on these lists, and that there was no problem >at all with my personal participation, except that those advising me >felt that it was a waste of time. How wrong they were .... Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 08:33:12 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Topics for WWW Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980503083312.00985100@mail.eden.com> Dallas brought up a very basic question. If you ask a man/woman in cyber space, you will find very few ever heard of Theosophy. So how does a cybertraveller find out about Theosophy. It is thru search engines. So a list is compiled so that someone searching a topic on which theosophy has something to offer, can find Theosophy. Here is the list with the help of Dallas and Sophia. channeling, trance hypnotism Mesmerism Dreams Visions, Intuitions Fancy Imagination Clairaudience, clairvoyance, Prophecy, second sight Spiritualism Messages from the Dead, Adepts, Masters, Mahatmas Psychic Phenomena Levitation Apportation Automatic writing, Astral body Divination, dowsing, Pyramid power Hatha Yoga Raja Yoga Cohesion/dispersion of materials by mental willing Spiritual visions Ghosts, apparitions, Materialization and precipitation of letters, etc. Mdiumship and Adeptship The Higher Self, Initiation, the 3 planes of Consciousness, Death Astral Plane, Evil entities, Occult laws, powers Soul and Spirit God Saviours Psychology Deities God and Gods Meditation, Contemplation Mind and Brain Knowledge, Wisdom Self Knowledge Religion and Religions Philosophies Truth Esoteric Sacred and Holy Magic Sorcery Witches, wizards Occult Adepts Masters Mahatmas Chelas Initiation Alchemy Origin man and Cosmos Life Hell, Heaven Paradise Revelation Duties Morality Ethics Cycles Solar System Cosmos, Chaos Evolution Environment Chakras Any one has any more ideas. ..mkr PS: If a website is developed, it could just be short paragraphs on the above subjects with pointers for more detailed info. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 10:26:20 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The May THEOSOPHY WORLD is Out Message-ID: The May issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Joy Mills on the Internet" "Reminders" "Theosophy and Modern Science" by Alan E. Donant "The Sacred Seasons and Initiation" by L. Gordon Plummer "Step out of the Dark" by Eldon Tucker "Food, Values, and Ecology" by Roar Bjonnes "Treasures Behind the Gate" by Eldon Tucker "Druidism: The Theosophy of Ancient Wales" Part II, by Kenneth Morris "Emanation and Evolution" by Eldon Tucker "Ourselves and Others" by Kenneth Morris THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 10:28:12 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The May THEOSOPHY WORLD is Out Message-ID: The May issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Joy Mills on the Internet" "Reminders" "Theosophy and Modern Science" by Alan E. Donant "The Sacred Seasons and Initiation" by L. Gordon Plummer "Step out of the Dark" by Eldon Tucker "Food, Values, and Ecology" by Roar Bjonnes "Treasures Behind the Gate" by Eldon Tucker "Druidism: The Theosophy of Ancient Wales" Part II, by Kenneth Morris "Emanation and Evolution" by Eldon Tucker "Ourselves and Others" by Kenneth Morris THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 10:27:02 -0700 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The May THEOSOPHY WORLD is Out Message-ID: The May issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Joy Mills on the Internet" "Reminders" "Theosophy and Modern Science" by Alan E. Donant "The Sacred Seasons and Initiation" by L. Gordon Plummer "Step out of the Dark" by Eldon Tucker "Food, Values, and Ecology" by Roar Bjonnes "Treasures Behind the Gate" by Eldon Tucker "Druidism: The Theosophy of Ancient Wales" Part II, by Kenneth Morris "Emanation and Evolution" by Eldon Tucker "Ourselves and Others" by Kenneth Morris THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 04:23:07 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Energy_n_emptiness Message-ID: Welcome K! I enjoyed your post. I have the following comments: K: >C.W. Leadbeater, the great & terrible, illustrated it good in "Occult >Chemistry" (p. 21 in 1919 edition) > >
> "The atom can scarcely be said to be a "thing", though it is tha >material out of which all things physical are composed. It is formed >by the flow of the life-force and vanishes with its ebb. When this >force arises in "space"* - the apparent void which must be filled with >substance of some kind, of inconceivable tenuity - atoms appear; if >this be artificially stopped for a single atom, the atom disappars; >there is nothing left. Presumably, were that flow checked but for an >instant, the whole physical world would vanish, as a cloud melts away >in the empyrean. It is only the persistence of that flow which maintains >the physical basis of the universe. >_________ > * When Fohat "digs holes in space"." >
The paragraph before this gives a clarification to this. "In this ultimate state of physical matter two types of atoms have been observed: they are alike in everything save the direction of their whorls and of the force which pours through them. In the one case force pours in from the "outside," from fourth-dimensional spaceÝ(ÝThe astral plane) and passing through the atom, pours into the physical world. In the second, it pours in from the physical world, and out through the atom into the "outside" again,Ý i.e., vanishes from the physical world." I put this in to clarify the meaning of the "disappearance" and "appearance" of the atom. For those who do not understand the passing on to various planes, SDI, p. 148 gives a good description. >Many people like to say that nature of things is emptyness, but they >normally don't try to underatans what it really means. Though nature >of things is emptyness, nature of akasha isn't emptiness, but the >energy creates emptiness in akasha and thus creates the things. >Some scientists defined the physical vacuum as "superdense degenerated >media". This "superdense degenerated media" is the "ether" that permeates through all physical matter. This "ether" also varies in density depending on the plane, with the most ethereal being Akasa or Space. The energy that permeates all, that "creates emptiness" is the energy of creation, the outbreath of the One. This energy was borned of "emptiness." It is the life energy that cannot be contained. It is Desire projecting outside of itself. It is a dream that is playing itself out. Yet this energy and this outside projection is not a separate or outside thing but an indivisible part of the One. The substance of the dreaming, the Mayavic matter, resulted from the tension of separation between the Mother Root of Matter and the Father Spirit. The projection is the matter that "came out" of the "emptiness." This "emptiness" is actually the backbone of Mayavic matter, a "space" in which matter can find its place, and where it can exist. Matter cannot exist without this "emptiness." >Th> called "ether." Ether, as science has defined it, does not exist. > It is not exactly so. It would be more correct to say that "science >has defined that ether does not exist" ;) For Einstein it was simply >unnecessary hypothesis, like god for Laplace. And moreover, Einstein >kept that opinion not more than 10-15 years. Yet in 1920's he wrote: >"Corresponding the general relativity theory, the space is inconceivable >without ether" (Ether & relativity theory, 1920) >"We cannot in theoretical physics to handle without ether, i.e. continuum >provided with physical characteristics" (On ether, 1924) > (of course it's in reverse translation form russian.) That is also true. However, ether, as a definite property defined by science, does not exist. Of course, some of the grossest properties of ether as defined by science can be considered. >Here in Russia several scientists are continuing to develop theories of >ether. Some of them derived equations known as "quantum" & "relativistic" >assuming an ether to be a gaseous meduim and remaining on the classical >"Newtonian" basis. Leadbeater wrote that an ether has its pressure and >it is inconceivably high, Aciukovsky in 1980's has calculated it to be >10^29 atmospheres. He makes relativity obsolete, deriving everything on >mechanical basis. I can post a short sketch of his main work, "Ether- >dynamics", if someone's interesting in it. So, we still cannot say that >science has acknowldged an ether yet, but we already can say that there's >no unified opinion. Ultimately, it would be impossible to define ether. Ether, ultimately, is Mulaprakriti, the spirit-substance that defies description, for it is "not this." I would be very interested in reading the work, if you wouldn't mind posting it. Thanks. I wish you the best of luck in setting up your study center. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 04:22:51 -0700 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Sex_and_spirituality Message-ID: Hi K again, K.: >Mon, 27 Apr 1998 M K Ramadoss wrote: > >R> (Leadbeater)Theosophy (and ES)followers are firm believers in the "theory" >R> that with sex you cannot progress spiritually, in spite of all the > > It isn't Leadbeater's invention. Blavatsky wrote that "in practical >occultism all sexual contacts are prohibited". But most of so called >followers, as Bailey, Roerich, Prophet, Lomborg - were all married. > They & their followers say that now times has changed & sex is >allowed now. Modern psychology has discovered that such strict sexual prohibition only creates neuroticism and is unhealthy for the psyche. I'd rather follow a leader with a healthy sexual outlook, not extreme one way or the other. >R> undisputed allegations about Leadbeater on sex matters. (Some Leadbeater >R> followers try to clear him by saying that he was never convicted and >R> hence in "our" system of justice, a man is innocent until proven guilty.) > In "Letters of masters of wisdom" vol.I K.H. warns Leadbeater that because >he is a priest, he may yield karma of that "caste". So it makes me suspect >that convictions against Leadbeater could be false, as those made by other >priests against Blavatsky. Either way, I wouldn't discount Leadbeater or Blavatsky's studies based on their personal shells. They're both dead, so what does it matter? Only their concepts survive. If some concepts don't appeal to me, I don't use it. A true student of theosophy will make discerning choices of any teaching from any teacher. To blindly and rigidly follow anybody goes against all that a seeker of truth would try to do. >R> And he [K] never "presented" himself as being celibate. According to the > Did he ever mentioned, had he a sex himself? >Maybe he is simply theoretical? I heard he had an affair with someone's wife. Doss would know the story. >>So sex becomes the one issue which is our very own, which is not >>second-hand. And in the act of sex there is a forgetting of oneself, >>one's problems and one's fears. In that act there is no self at all." > > He always said what people wanted to hear from him, so in it lies >the secret of his popularity. Doesn't that also mean he is touching upon the "guru" within each of those people? Since his popularity reflects that, that would mean that his teaching is mostly true. Whatever our education and our background, it all comes down to what rings true within us after we try to discard all the outside distractions. >Similiarly of Osho Rajnish & others of >that kind. Anyway, what other he could recommend, if he denied existence >of any kind of soul and explaned all the psychic activity by action of >the brain cells? It's natural for lokayata. He did not explain the soul through the action of the brain cells. I don't think he went on at length about soul. Instead, his focus was on conceptual thinking, which makes use of psycho-somatic energy. Contrary to what you say, he wants to use the mind-energy which will not go back to the brain cells. Instead of using the computer mind, which is composed mostly of memories and preset ideas, he wanted us to increase our awareness. This awareness uses our dynamic mind-energy, which is more creative, more total. I would consider his teaching to be an enhancement to all the other teachings, and not a detriment to them. I find it interesting what the Leadbeater camp and the Krisnamurti camp have to say about one another. I find misconceptions from both camp. > I think that Krishnamurti was the greatest CWL's mistake, much worse >than his sexual affairs. Impurity of one, even leading TS member doesn't >mean a thing at all, but Krishnamurti destroyed the work of many years >and converted TS from a newage locomotive to mere club of amateurs of the >occult. I wouldn't say Krisnamurti alone set the wheel of change in action. I'd say several other events, including the political atmosphere of the TS, the deference to gurus, and the hierarchical structure helped it along. I don't believe any event in this world occurs singularly. If you think on it deeply enough, everyone's to blame. Everything is the flow of the tao. Maybe it was time the atmosphere of Leadbeater's time be changed to democracy and independence. In this case, the meaning of democracy includes the world outside of the occult societies. >Returning to sex, I think that many arguments pro are collected in >"Sex & marriage", the digest from several Bailey books. > >BTW, have anyone of you read "Disciple's mirror", a book written down >by Brigit Lomborg? Is it popular among the western theosophists? >That book states that sex is not prohibited, and moreover, recommended >for the disciples. An author, who declared himself to be that Tibetan >who wrote Bailey books, stated that an experiment with the groups of >disciples has failed because humanity isn't developed enough, so hie- >rarchy tried an experiment with the least possible group - a pair. >One member of the pair is more developed (approx. one life ahead) and >leads another one. An author, whoever he could be, seems to me a very >informed person; our Roerich fans don't deny that though regard him >to be a black lodge emissar. Of course the book overviews different >questions, most of them have no obvious connection with a sex. Sounds interesting. I think the balance of yin and yang, whether it be in a couple, or within one person, is the best solution. I haven't been focusing on sex beyond the earthly part of it. I'm just trying to get through the basic esoteric writings, and they are numerous! Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:04:49 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Forming_a_study_center Message-ID: K. Zaitzev writes >MKR> Also what advantages you are all expecting by forming a or study >MKR> center or branch? > Lodges, as i understood, have a self-ruling status. Yet our unattached >members cannot act from the name of TS. For example, registering as a >public organization gives much advantages. Russian laws don't prohibit >us to create an organization, call it "Theosophical society" and re- >gister as non-commercial organization but our members say it won't be >proper behaviour from TS's point of view. Still we have no official >status all the activity is paralized. We can't have our bank account, >etc. All that we do is meeting each week in a library because the >director of library kindly permitted us to do it. The Adyar TS is not the only official Theosophical Society. There is also the TS Pasadena. If you have a Web browser you can get their address via the Theosophical University Press link on the website below. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:07:00 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Late response Message-ID: Jaqtarin Triele writes >I just discovered that there may have been a >sword used by the Hebrews (although I am not sure of the time period) >called "The Hand of God." Apparently, one side of the primary blade >was hammered as to create a whistling-type noise on the backswing. >The sound it made was referred to as "The Voice of God." I am not >sure if the source is accurate, (as it is hearsay, quoted by a friend >from a text I have never seen), but I was curious if anyone on this >list has come across this info. I haven't flipped through the Bible >yet, but I'm wondering if the hand and voice of god was ever a >reference to this weapon... I did a complete OT Bible check. Nothing at all relevant to be found. Same with carrots. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 08:46:24 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: How the world look at. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980502084624.01419b90@mail.eden.com> Here is a comment by a newsman Eric Margolis" "When I was growing up in Europe, Canadians used to be known as no-nonsense, tough customers. Mess with Canuks, and you'd risk a good thumping. Decades of Trudeau's soft socialism, perpetuated by the media and education system, transformed Canada into an overly feminized society where inoffensiveness and wimpishness has become national art forms. . Just look at PM Jean Chretien's embarrassing visit this week to Cuba." In the hard driving modern world, any one not acting so, is looked down. >From a Theosophical point of view, may be Canada is doing the right thing in developing a society whose values are different. my 0.02 mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 10:50:46 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Krishnaji Publications Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980502105046.0085ae60@mail.eden.com> Anyone visiting the New Age section of large books stores will find quite a few Krishnaji Titles on the shelf as compared to a very few ones on Theosophy or from Theosophical Publishing Outfits. Most of the Krishnaji publications are put out by various commercial publishers and I have not seen any new Krishnaji's book published by Theosophical Publishing House in several years. Wondered about all the profit TPH could have made if they had published Krishnaji books. Of course the couple of books edited by D. Rajagopal and published from a long time ago are still being published by TPH. I have found out the answer to the situation. In a signed and notorized statement Krishnaji issued in 1972, it states: "After my death it is my wish and desire that all my work and teachings, including but not limited to the distribution and dissemination of books and all other publications of every kind which are written by or about me or my views or teachings, and translations thereof, motion pictures or television film in which I appear or which are about me or any views or teachings, and biographies about me or my views or teachings, be carried on and promulgated throughout the world by Krishnamurti Foundation of America, the Krishnamuri Foundation (London), the Krishnamurti Foundation (India) and Foundacion Krishnamurti Hispanoamericana adn the trustees of those organizations, and not by Krishnamurti Writings Inc., K&R Foundation, D. Rajagopal, or any other organization with which Rajagopal or any other trustee or officer of Krishnamurti Writings, Inc. or K&R Foundation is or may become associated." It appears that all the trustees of Krishnamurti Writings etc. were members of TS. One of the current officers of TSA, is a long time member and held elected office in the past, is one of the trustees covered above. So this association precluded any Krishnaji's publications from *ever* being published by any publication arm of Theosophical Society (Adyar) (anywhere in the world) and this is a very serious loss of opportunity. Some who are interested in the above info now know the answer. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:08:31 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Information Age Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980502130831.009d55d0@mail.eden.com> According to an article titled " Teacher review site under fire by profs By Robert Lemos and Matthew Broersma, ZDNN, May 1, 1998 5:48 PM PDT" - "TeacherReview.com allows students, and anyone else, to get online and write in comments about 361 of the professors that teach at the City College. At issue: the more than 15 percent of the reviews that gave the teachers a grade of "Incompetent." Everyone knows the "review" of teachers in colleges among student community is well known and student make decisions on course selections on this basis. The above website which is offsite and free, has irked the teachers. What is worse is the continuous updates based on individual experiences and such information is hard to disseminate. Where the line between defamation and opinion is drawn will be decided as the whole issue evolves. What the above points is the way feedback works in a democratic is evolving and we will see more of it. What this does is to put a lot of light on the doings of people in position of responsibility and power. ..mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:05:40 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980502130540.009cea50@mail.eden.com> At 11:18 AM 5/2/1998 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>clip<<<<<<<<<<<<< >William N. Greer >National Secretary >318 W. Geneva Road >Wheaton, Illinois >(630) 510-0668 >To: TSA Lodges, Study Centers, and Members > >Re: The newsletter, THE ACTIVIST, and the response of David P. Bruce > >>>>>>>>big clip<<<<<<<<<<<<< >> >Like David, I wish to avoid any appearance of impropriety of office — thus, >like David, I am mailing you this letter at my own expense. >>>>>>>>>>clip<<<<<<<<<<< Nathan should be congratulated on his initiative and courage. He has taken a very balanced and sane approach. It is to be noted that he is mailing it at his own expense, which is substantial unless one is independently wealthy, which I suppose is not the case with Nathan. Considering the peanut salary paid to Olcott staff (who provide outstanding service to all of us under very difficult conditions, for which each one of us should be grateful), the mailout expense is a significant financial burden. I personally support open and frequent exchanges of communication (especially using net) as more the communication, easier to find a good solution without any serious side effects. So I am contributing a small amount towards Greer's mailing expenses. I urge every one who can afford, to do the same. Any amount small or big, will go a long way to help Greer. BTW, I am for helping all Theosophists. I have also sent a small contribution to both ACT and John Algeo, latter towards the mailout of his testimonial letter. There are some troubling issues. 1. Why have we not heard from any of the prominent theosophists who command respect and trust of a large number of members? 2. Why have we not heard from any of the elected Board Members other than Bruce? 3. Why John Algeo is not directly dealing with the issues raised and defend or explain anything instead of pointing the support from paid employees over whose job security he has unilateral power (and few other members)? 4. Why are none of the letters posted by the authors on the net? Nor have we seen Algeo or any other elected official on the net. Is there a policy edict, whether emanting from Himalayas/Tibet or anywhere prohibiting the TSA officials/elected members of BOD engaging and using the theosophy maillists, which are free and unmoderated/controlled? My 0.02 ..mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:31:27 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Letter RE ACT from Nathan Greer Message-ID: <354B748F.DBF0E16B@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > 1. Why have we not heard from any of the prominent theosophists who command > respect and trust of a large number of members? Probably just because they command respect and trust. I long ago noted that Dora Kunz, for example, is very free with her strong opinions. If, however, you ask her for her opinion, and tell her that a decision you are making depends on it, she becomes far more moderate. Also, I would not be surprised if they, like myself, support most, but not all, the ACT points, and feel that they cannot, and therefore should not, answer either way until they have more information (on things such as the 1996 elections, the staff situation at Olcott, etc.). Also, note that some of the personalities involved in ACT have past histories of strained relationships with the TSA management, and it is possible that the people to whom you are referring are withholding judgment so that they can separate the issues from the personalities. Certainly, I made some errors (which I have since admitted, several times) when I rushed to judgment based on a 1/4-written web site (and you, I believe, were the one who posted the address of that not-ready-for-public-consumption web site). The theosophists who command respect and trust do so with good reason, one of which is that they do NOT speak (or type) without thinking things through, first. > 2. Why have we not heard from any of the elected Board Members other than > Bruce? I believe that the National Secretary is an elected post, as well, but I don't have the bylaws in front of me (and am too lazy to look). I would guess that it is for the same reasons as above. A possibility which I HOPE is not true is that they are thinking that if they ignore it, it will go away. > 3. Why John Algeo is not directly dealing with the issues raised and defend > or explain anything instead of pointing the support from paid employees > over whose job security he has unilateral power (and few other members)? The only reason I can think of (and I have NOT asked him directly) is that he doesn't want the issues to become personal, and that he believes that anything he says will be twisted against him. > 4. Why are none of the letters posted by the authors on the net? Nor have > we seen Algeo or any other elected official on the net. Is there a policy > edict, whether emanting from Himalayas/Tibet or anywhere prohibiting the > TSA officials/elected members of BOD engaging and using the theosophy > maillists, which are free and unmoderated/controlled? Well, the only clue I can give you to that is what I have been told (and I will not say by whom, except that it was more than one source). When I discussed these lists with certain TSA officials, I was asked to not use the NYTS account on these lists, and that there was no problem at all with my personal participation, except that those advising me felt that it was a waste of time. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:21:41 +0400 From: "K. Zaitzev" Subject: Attention_of_Russian_speaking Message-ID: <199804300821.MAA03146@idg.chph.ras.ru> Attention of Russian speaking persons (new site) Hello All! NONSENSE STATION - http://www.chat.ru/~ziatz Contains a collection of theosophical books mostly in Russian (All texts are in Russian except those which are specially noted) Our page also delivers an information about Theosophical Society (Adyar) in Russia Last updated: 7 apr 97. File collection File Size Comment Occult sciences theosoph.zip 189k "The Theosophist" 1996 (selected, in English) adyarlst.zip 9k Book order catalogue of TPH, Adyar (English) bon.zip 116k Wonders of natural mind. Dzogchen in Bon tradition ynr-bon.zip 12k Y.N. Roerich about Bon teaching kalapa.zip 17k Y.N. Roerich. On study of Kalachakra astral.zip 70k C. W. Leadbeater. Astral Plane clair.zip 70k C. W. Leadbeater. Clairvoyance myslform.zip 535k C. W. Leadbeater & A. Besant. Thoughtforms vimany.zip 17k Vimana - aircraft of ancient India platon.zip 116k Plato. Parmenid, Phaedo plotin.zip 308k Plotinus. Enneades (cosmogony) [offline] paracels.zip 36k Paracelsus. Secrets of Alchemy. Occult philosophy alch-sw.zip 24k Alchemical wedding of Christian Rosenkreuz faust.zip 72k Story of dr. Faust. 1587 (Before Goethe!) popolvuh.zip 71k Popol-vuh. Book of Quiche (Amer.indian bible) hpb-peru.zip 32k H.P.Blavatsky. Terra incognita (S.Amer. civiliz.) hpb-sbor.zip 60k H.P.Blavatsky. Articles 1880-1883. hpb-otr.zip 47k H.P.Blavatsky. Articles 1882-1883. hpb-phil.zip 84k H.P.Blavatsky. Notes of unpopular philosopher esoevang.zip 36k H.P.Blavatsky. Esoterism of Gospels hpb-prak.zip 16k H.P.Blavatsky. Pract esoter. teaching & occ. sciences chely.zip 48k H.P.Blavatsky. Articles on chelas & related elementa.zip 50k H.P.Blavatsky. Elementals. Elementaries. venera.zip 10k H.P.Blavatsky. Story of a planet (on Lucifer) izi-bibl.zip 45k H.P.Blavatsky. From "Isis Unveiled" (on Bible) izidevil.zip 57k H.P.Blavatsky. From "Isis Unveiled" (on Devil) td-pred.zip 45k Preface & Index to the "Secret Doctrine" by H.P.B. hpbtales.zip 121k H.P.Blavatsky. Nightmare tales hpbdeath.zip 12k Blavatsky & E. Levi on death & Satan key-theo.zip 211k H.P.Blavatsky. Key to Theosophy hpb-lrel.zip 31k Some of H.P.B. letters on Christianity, etc. wl-theo.zip 91k Blavatsky influence in XX cent. science, lit. & arts biogrhpb.zip 228k Mary K. Nef. Biography of H.P. Blavatsky khletter.zip 10k Last K.H. letter to Annie Besant spiritis.zip 144k Cardec. Heaven & Hell (philosophy of spiritualism) gnosis.zip 83k J. Rijkenborg & K. Petri. De Gnosis Universalis yogadict.zip 96k E. Wood. Yoga Dictionary hoja.zip 9k Some anecdotes about Hoja Nasreddin cwl4ist.zip 10k Four noble truths for lamers Other stuff suhov.zip 11k N.Suhov on the dynamic bias & HX-pro hpdoc.zip 7k Program for tiny print on HP - 50kb per page ha.zip 38k For unpackihg the files received from here [important!] Visit URI BBS (www.chat.ru/~ulm) for more cool files! Files from neighbouring pages indexed here in English File Size Comment From Uri BBS Don't download *.ha archives by Netscape! usopshi.zip 78k E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" v. 1 usop-war.zip 113k E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" v. 2 usop-usa.zip 52k E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" v. 3 pis-mah.ha 489k Mahatma letters (to Sinnett & Hume) drevmudr.ha 153k A.Besant "Ancient Wisdom" ab-lest.ha 11k A.Besant "Stairway of life" eso-psyh.ha 214k A.Bailey "Esoteric Psychology" (Tr. 7 Rays v.1) ep_karma.ha 19k E.Pisareva "Karma or low of cause & effect" ep_mysl.zip 21k E.Pisareva "Thought power & thoughtforms" ep_struc.zip 22k E.Pisareva "Complicated constitution of man" grani_5.zip 192k Facets of Agni-yoga, v. 5 grani_6.zip 165k Facets of Agni-yoga, v. 6 grani_7.zip 180k Facets of Agni-yoga, v. 7 grani_8.ha 180k Facets of Agni-yoga, v. 8 agni_op.ha 64k Fire Experience colors.ha 12k Agni-yoga on colors dream.ha 29k E.I. Roerich "Dreams & visions" aseev.zip 510k E.I. Roerich Letters to Yugoslavia (to Aseyev) kript.ha 38k E.I. Roerich "Cryptogrammes of East" fosdik26.zip 13k E.Fosdick "In Moscow & in Altai with Roerichs" foma-eva.ha 9k Gospel of Thoma eva-mari.ha 9k Gospel of Maria kumran.ha 55k On Kumran scriptures from Nag-hammadi tibet-jc.ha 18k Tibetian gospel origen.ha 17k Origen "De principii", ch. 4 (on reincarnation) gita.zip 50k Bhagavad Gita masla.ha 25k Etheric oils, the ancient healing means okk-phil.ha 95k H.C.Agrippa "Occult philosophy" v.1 m-ether.ha 7k Sinnett. Mendeleev's conception of ether From Sukhavati page [temporary offline] bhagav05.zip 130k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 5 bhagav06.zip 107k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 6 bhagav07.zip 96k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 7 bhagav08.zip 96k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 8 bhagav09.zip 95k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 9 bhagav10.zip 63k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 10 bhagav11.zip 159k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 11 bhagav12.zip 55k Srimad Bhagavatam - song 12 bhagref.zip 10k Some additions to Srimad Bhagavatam krishna1.zip 149k Some vaishnav texts - Brahma-samhita, etc. glosary.zip 26k Prayers of different religions From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:43:19 EDT From: Drpsionic Subject: lest we forget Message-ID: <79f275fc.3548f078@aol.com> As the fundies are preparing for the National Day of Prayer next week and guess which organization is probably going to be top on their list to get rid of, I thought it would be nice if took some time to remember just whose side we are on. Chuck the Heretic OK, we all know that 666 is the Number of the Beast. But did you know that: $665.95 - Retail price of the Beast $699.25 - Price of the Beast plus 5% sales tax $769.95 - Price of the Beast with all accessories and replacement soul $656.66 - Walmart price of the Beast 6, uh... what was that number again? - Number of the Blonde Beast 00666 - Zip code of the Beast 1-900-666-0666 - Live Beasts! One-on-one pacts! Call Now! Only $6.66/minute. Over 18 only please. Route 666 - Highway of the Beast 666 F - Oven temperature for roast Beast 666k - Retirement plan of the Beast 6.66 % - 5 year CD interest rate at First Beast National Bank, $666 minimum deposit. i66686 - CPU of the Beast 666i - BMW of the Beast DSM-666 - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the Beast 668 - Next-door neighbor of the Beast From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:07:27 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Something to think about Message-ID: Excerpted from an article in the San Francisco Chronicle By Amy Harmon New York Times Bowman, N.D. For nearly a year, Elisa DeCarlo had been logging on to the Internet daily to type messages to an online support group about her battle against alcohol. It did not matter that she did not know where most of the 200 or so other participants in the group lived, or even their names. All that mattered was that they were there for her, and she for them, in a fight that some days sapped all of her strength and sense of humor. But the morning of Monday, March 23, drinking her usual cup of coffee as she scrolled through the previous day's e-mail, DeCarlo, a 38-year-old comedian in New York City, lost faith in her vitual community. Along with the typical postings from members about their weekends was a message from a man she knew as Larry. In graphic detail, Larry described how three years ago he killed his 5-year-old daughter, Amanda, in a North Dakota town of Bowman. In the message, posted at 12:50 p.m. on March 22, Larry recounted how, overcome by a bitter custody dispute with his ex-wife, he had set fire to his home and trapped his daughter inside. The e-mail message struck DeCarlo as horrifying, but she grew further dismayed over the online debate that followed. While some members of the support group were appalled by Larry's account, others rushed to his defense, trying to assure him that he was experiencing a fantasy driven by guilt over his divorce. Others tried to comfort him by telling him that the crime was long past. On March 24, in the midst of what is known on the Internet as a flame war, DeCarlo was one of three members of the support group to notify law-enforcement officials. Bowman police said Larry Froistad, a 29-year-old computer programmer in San Diego, called them March 27 and confessed. Froistad has since been extradited to Bowman, a town of about 1,800 people, and he is scheduled to be arraigned on murder charges tomorrow in the courthouse. The courthouse is a few blocks from a slab of concrete and rusted plumbing where his daughter died in a fire that was ruled accidental at the time. Jim Shirk, 59, went to the FBI. When news of Larry's arrest reached the group, someone called for the squealers to come forward. Shirk, of Bremerton, Wash., who said he had been sober for 19 years and is a licensed chemical dependency counselor, sent the person private e-mail explaining his desire to remain anonymous. Instead, the person posted the e-mail to the whole list, and sent Shirk private e-mail back: "Just how big a pervert are you?" it read. "I bet you really get off talking to the FBI. Wow. Did you ask them if you could see their guns?" Experts who study the sociology of cyberspace say the intersection of the confidentiality ethic of self-help groups and the sometimes illusory anonymity of online communion can make for particularly sticky situations. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:45:50 +0100 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: lest we forget Message-ID: Drpsionic writes >OK, we all know that 666 is the Number of the Beast. > >But did you know that: Nearly all Demon Internet (UK) access phone numbers end in 666? Alan :-) Brought to you from West Cornwall, UK From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:53:21 -0500 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Handicapped and Masonry Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980430235321.0098aa30@mail.eden.com> I recall that anyone with a physical handicap cannot be admitted to Freemasonry. If this is true, then does Co-masonry also follow this policy? mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 02:19:02 -0400 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Handicapped and Masonry Message-ID: <35496956.8C8F281D@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > > I recall that anyone with a physical handicap cannot be admitted to > Freemasonry. If this is true, then does Co-masonry also follow this policy? You're out of date. Most Grand Lodges in the United States (possibly all) allow people with handicaps to join the Masons, with actions during the vows taken symbolically. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 13:09:56 -0700 From: Mark Kusek Subject: Re: Sex and spirituality Message-ID: <354A2C05.62AA@withoutwalls.com> K. Zaitzev wrote: > > I think that Krishnamurti was the greatest of CWL's mistake, much worse > than his sexual affairs. The impurity of one, even misleading TS members, doesn't > mean a thing at all, but Krishnamurti destroyed the work of many years > and converted TS from a New Age locomotive to mere club of amateurs of the > occult. Boy, you got that right. > Returning to sex, I think that many pro arguments are collected in > "Sex & Marriage", the digest from several Bailey books. Available from Lucis Publishing Company as "A Compilation on Sex." © 1980 Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:44:50 -0700 (PDT) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: lest we forget Message-ID: Love this! I'm still deciding which side I should be on. Thoa :o) >As the fundies are preparing for the National Day of Prayer next week and >guess which organization is probably going to be top on their list to get rid >of, I thought it would be nice if took some time to remember just whose side >we are on. > >Chuck the Heretic > >OK, we all know that 666 is the Number of the Beast. > >But did you know that: > >$665.95 - Retail price of the Beast >$699.25 - Price of the Beast plus 5% sales tax >$769.95 - Price of the Beast with all accessories and > replacement soul >$656.66 - Walmart price of the Beast >6, uh... what >was that number >again? - Number of the Blonde Beast >00666 - Zip code of the Beast >1-900-666-0666 - Live Beasts! One-on-one pacts! Call Now! > Only $6.66/minute. Over 18 only please. >Route 666 - Highway of the Beast >666 F - Oven temperature for roast Beast >666k - Retirement plan of the Beast >6.66 % - 5 year CD interest rate at First Beast National > Bank, $666 minimum deposit. >i66686 - CPU of the Beast >666i - BMW of the Beast >DSM-666 - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the Beast >668 - Next-door neighbor of the Beast