From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:19:03 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Free E-mail Message-ID: <3481E657.457C@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > What free e-mail is going to do is to make e-mail accessible to everyone. Everyone who has: A) A computer that can run Mac OS or Microsoft Windows, with a modem capable of 9600 baud+ communications (currently, IF you know where to look, such a setup can be had for about $400-$500; but that is a lot of money to the overwhelming majority of people). B) A place to PUT the computer system (more harder to find in urban than in non-urban environments). C) A phone line accessible to the place where the computer is placed (for a non-technical person, that can run into 3 figures). D) Technical knowledge or access to technical knowledge to set the whole thing up. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:07:58 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Free E-mail Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971130190758.007438e8@mail.eden.com> At 05:22 PM 11/30/97 -0500, Bart Lidofsky wrote: >M K Ramadoss wrote: >> What free e-mail is going to do is to make e-mail accessible to everyone. > > Everyone who has: > > A) A computer that can run Mac OS or Microsoft Windows, with a modem >capable of 9600 baud+ communications (currently, IF you know where to >look, such a setup can be had for about $400-$500; but that is a lot of >money to the overwhelming majority of people). > B) A place to PUT the computer system (more harder to find in urban >than in non-urban environments). > C) A phone line accessible to the place where the computer is placed >(for a non-technical person, that can run into 3 figures). > D) Technical knowledge or access to technical knowledge to set the >whole thing up. > > Bart Lidofsky Couple of comments. 1. At this time the Juno software runs only on PCs and need Windows 3.1 or Windows 95. 2. Whatever technology is available, there are going to be people who cannot afford to have it in house or have difficulty in using it. 3. More and more efforts are on the way to provide free-mail access via schools, libraries etc. In England there is a move in the Government to provide a e-mail address like the social security number is assigned in the USA. 4. Technology is moving so fast, that no one can forsee what it going to be the situation couple of years down the road. But one thing is clear. World wide communication is going to be expanding and be cheaper than it is today. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:10:53 -0800 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The December THEOSOPHY WORLD is out Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971130191053.008626e0@imagiware.com> The December issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Opening Sacred Celebrations" "Theosophical Resources Announcement" by Wesley Amerman "Studies in 'The Voice of the Silence', Part III, The Virtuous Mind, by B. P. Wadia "Historic Forces That Affect Our Lives" by Eldon Tucker "Ethics is a Part of Life" by Eldon Tucker "A Problem With Ethics" by Gerald Schueler "The Question of Ethics" by April Hejka-Ekins "Research That is Destructive of Belief Systems" by Paul Johnson "New Theosophical Email Addresses" "Conference on Theosophy and Modern Science" by Alan E. Donant "Chaos is Very Civilized" by Thoa Tran "Monk Gloats Over Yoga Championship" -- Anonymous "The Natural Process of Spiritual Development" by Eldon Tucker "Transplants?" by Richard Hiltner, MD "Manuscripts from the Gobi" by Mark Jaqua "Discussions on the Theosophical Philosophy" by Jerry Hejka-Ekins "On Science and Religion" by Annette Rivington "The Theosophical First Cause" by Eldon Tucker THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:30:03 -0800 From: Mark Kusek Subject: Geometric Image Message-ID: <34826772.764D@withoutwalls.com> Hi Doris, I have to apologize. I was in the middle of sending my response to your questions when my computer crashed. I lost both my letter and your post, along with your email address. The image you mentioned is by Johannes Kepler. It was originally published in a book called "Mysterium Cosmographicum' in 1660. I know of it by way of "The Hermetic Museum: Alchemy and Mysticism" (ISBN 3-8228-8653-X) as well as a few others in my library, "Sacred Geometry" by Robert Lawlor and "Mathematics of the Cosmic Mind" by L.Gordon Plummer. It relates to Platonic and Pythagoean teachings about the nature of reality expressed in geometric terms. The topic is fascinating and there is a lot of information in the books I've mentioned if you are interested in delving further. I originally put up those pictures because of some art related discussions on the various Theosophy lists. I am an artist by profession and have been collecting esoterica for years. It was a little labor of love. I spent a few weekends scanning and posting those pictures to my website. I never really intended to put up explanatory texts. Although, It would probably be a good idea. If there is something in particular that you are curious about, I'd be happy to share what I know about it with you. Thanks, Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 19:10:33 -0800 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: The December THEOSOPHY WORLD is out Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971130191033.00863100@imagiware.com> Oops. I just sent this saying "The November issue is just out," when it's really the December issue. ---- The December issue of THEOSOPHY WORLD just came out. It's contents are: "Opening Sacred Celebrations" "Theosophical Resources Announcement" by Wesley Amerman "Studies in 'The Voice of the Silence', Part III, The Virtuous Mind, by B. P. Wadia "Historic Forces That Affect Our Lives" by Eldon Tucker "Ethics is a Part of Life" by Eldon Tucker "A Problem With Ethics" by Gerald Schueler "The Question of Ethics" by April Hejka-Ekins "Research That is Destructive of Belief Systems" by Paul Johnson "New Theosophical Email Addresses" "Conference on Theosophy and Modern Science" by Alan E. Donant "Chaos is Very Civilized" by Thoa Tran "Monk Gloats Over Yoga Championship" -- Anonymous "The Natural Process of Spiritual Development" by Eldon Tucker "Transplants?" by Richard Hiltner, MD "Manuscripts from the Gobi" by Mark Jaqua "Discussions on the Theosophical Philosophy" by Jerry Hejka-Ekins "On Science and Religion" by Annette Rivington "The Theosophical First Cause" by Eldon Tucker THEOSOPHY WORLD is a free Internet monthly available via email (about 100,000 bytes in size). To subscribe, write to editor@theosophy.com. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:32:20 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Welcome! Message-ID: <+qVOjZAUc1g0Ew9s@nellie2.demon.co.uk> THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL welcomes Brigitte Balint of Canada! Individual welcomes to: balint@uniserve.com Alan :-) --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:46:08 EST From: TomG626 Subject: REGARDING JUNO MAIL Message-ID: <7b97c0a8.34842d43@aol.com> I've been on Juno, the free E-mail service, since they first came online. Believe it was around May 1996. The service has performed well for me under a variety of circumstances and I depend upon it for routine E-mail, saving myself time on the paid networks. The only limitation I have found was the size limitation posed by the centrral Juno computer. One list I subscribed to sometimes had rather long digests (as high as 100K) and Juno's computer couldn't handle them. At that time (February 1997) Juno's system would not accept messages larger than 64K. This has been adequate for most routine things, such as manuscripts of a couple thousand words, and virtually all other mail and attachments. (In addition, it has a spell check program.) The service has been gaining advertisers and you do have to click off ad displays, usually two, before getting into the service. Also there has been some E-mail solicitation,. but the volume is insignificant compared to, say, AOL. A few extra clicks now and then, but the price is still zero. I've recently subscribed to this list and appreciate the chance to "listen in." --Tom Griffin From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:06:24 -0600 From: ramadoss@eden.com Subject: Re: REGARDING JUNO MAIL Message-ID: <34843200.114D@eden.com> Very glad to have you on the list. I started looking into Juno after a friend was looking for an inexpensive way to send and receive e-mail. As you correctly mentioned, the only limitation I found was that the msgs longer than 64000 bytes cannot be sent or received. Also no attachments of pictures sound etc files. In theos-xxxx mail lists the 64K limit is ok. You cannot post a msg over 20K. I think the way Juno works is wonderful for its specific job of sending and receiving e-mail. I highly recommend it to everyone, even if you have an Internet service. mkr TomG626 wrote: > > I've been on Juno, the free E-mail service, since they first came online. > Believe it was around May 1996. The service has performed well for me under a > variety of circumstances and I depend upon it for routine E-mail, saving > myself time on the paid networks. The only limitation I have found was the > size limitation posed by the centrral Juno computer. One list I subscribed to > sometimes had rather long digests (as high as 100K) and Juno's computer > couldn't handle them. At that time (February 1997) Juno's system would not > accept messages larger than 64K. This has been adequate for most routine > things, such as manuscripts of a couple thousand words, and virtually all > other mail and attachments. (In addition, it has a spell check program.) The > service has been gaining advertisers and you do have to click off ad displays, > usually two, before getting into the service. Also there has been some E-mail > solicitation,. but the volume is insignificant compared to, say, AOL. A few > extra clicks now and then, but the price is still zero. > > I've recently subscribed to this list and appreciate the chance to "listen > in." > --Tom Griffin > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:41:46 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Important Info Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971202204146.0069637c@mail.eden.com> >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:42:33 -0500 (EST) >From: euser@euronet.nl (Martin_Euser) >Subject: To attention of all russian-speaking persons (fwd) Hi TI-l-er's, can anyone forward this message to theos-l? Alan? Martin Euser euser@euronet.nl >Apparently-To: euser@euronet.nl >To: "euser@euronet.nl" >From: Kay Ziatz >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 00:32:08 +0300 >Subject: To attention of all russian-speaking presons >Organization: Wildflowers don't care where they grow >X-FTN-FLAGS: TRN K/S >X-FTN-MSGID: 2:5020/360.4 bbc13298 >X-FTN-PID: PPoint 1.86 >X-FTN-Tearline: PPoint 1.86 >X-FTN-Origin: Wildflowers don't care where they grow (2:5020/360.4) >X-FTN-Via: 2:5020/360@fidonet @19971130.064744.UTC+4 T-Mail 2603.DOS >X-FTN-Via: UniMail/W32 0.41b 2:5020/79, 30 Nov 1997 03:56:02 UTC +0300 >X-FTN-Via: Squish/386 1.11 2:5020/204, Sun Nov 30 1997 at 11:58 UTC >X-UIDL: 108ddb9c6e8767c141f98f8dc0a64647 > >Hello Martin! > >Please post this to theos-l & other theosophical & newage newsgroup >to which you're subscribed. > > > New WWW site (all the texts here are in Russian) > > www.chat.ru/~ulm > > > Theosophia > >usopshi.ha 78.691 E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" vol 1 (1914) >usop-war.ha 113.268 E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" vol 2 (1915) >usop-usa.ha 52.560 E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" vol 3 (1918) >teo-dict.ha 333.866 Theosophical Glossary by H.P.B. >letrmah1.ha 42.775 Letters of Masters of Wisdom, vol 1 >letrmah1.ha 71.277 Letters of Masters of Wisdom, vol 2 >pis-mah.ha 489.827 Mahatma letters (to Sinnett & Hume) >drevmudr.ha 153.910 A.Besant "Ancient Wisdom" >ab-lest.ha 11.481 A.Besant "Ladder of life" >eso-psyh.ha 214.903 A.Bailey "Esoteric Psychology" (Tr. on 7 rays vol.1) >ep_karma.ha 19.659 E.Pisareva "Karma or low of cause & effect" >ep_mysl.zip 21.790 E.Pisareva "Thought power & thoughtforms" >ep_struc.zip 22.780 E.Pisareva "Complicated constitutuon of man" >biogr.zip 38.287 E.Pisareva Short biography of H.P.Blavatsky >bowen.zip 7.047 R.Bowen "H.P.B. on studying theosophy" >gita_kom.zip 61.060 A.Besant "Comments to Bhagavad-gita" >th&h.zip 9.391 A.Besant "Does theosophy contradict christianity?" >esochr.zip 128.953 A.Besant "Esoteric christianity" >okk-hpb.zip 217.805 "Occult world of Blavatsky" > > Agni Yoga > >zov.zip 43.545 Call >ozarenie.zip 83.601 Illumination >obschina.zip 87.447 Commune >obsh_urg.zip 83.918 Commune (Urga edition) >ay.zip 135.202 Agni Yoga >bezpred_1.zip 66.760 Unlimiteness part 1 >bezpred_2.zip 71.048 Unlimiteness part 2 >ierarhia.zip 77.870 Hirearchy >serdce.zip 114.968 Heart >mo-one.zip 131.068 Fireworld part 1 >mo-two.zip 88.466 Fireworld part 2 >mo-thr.zip 107.722 Fireworld part 3 >aum.zip 97.754 Aum >brone.zip 94.473 Brotherhood part 1 >brtwo.zip 287.215 Brotherhood part 2 >brthr.zip 131.809 Brotherhood part 3 >grani_1.zip 244.768 Facets of Agni-yoga 1 >grani_5.ha 192.565 Facets of Agni-yoga 5 >grani_6.ha 164.967 Facets of Agni-yoga 6 >hagrani_7.ha 180.056 Facets of Agni-yoga 7 >grani_8.ha 180.038 Facets of Agni-yoga 8 >agni_op.ha 64.323 Fire experience >colors.ha 12.288 Agni-yoga about colors >dream.ha 29.625 E.I. Roerich "Dreams & visions" >aseev.zip 510.343 E.I. Roerich letters to Yugoslavia (to Aseev) >kript.ha 38.238 "Cryptogrammes of East" >os_mirop.ha 549.982 A.Klisovsky "Basics of Newage world understanding" >abramov1.ha 47.116 B.Abramov "Intented heart" >rokotova.ha 52.606 E.I. Roerich "Basics of Buddhism" >shambala.ha 24.011 N.K. Roerich "Shambhala the glowing" >serdceaz.zip 99.433 E.I. Roerich "Heart of Asia" >svet.zip 15.498 Light on the path >belikov.zip 165.419 F.Belikov "Roerich" >fosdik26.zip 13.108 Z.Fosdick "In Moscow & on Altai with Roerichs" (1926) > > Christianity > >foma-eva.ha 9.264 Gospel of Thoma >feodora.ha 14.405 Ordeals of blessed Theodora's soul >eva-mari.ha 9.030 Gospel of Maria >kumran.ha 55.301 About Kumran manuscripts (from Nag-Hammadi) >tibet-jc.ha 18.334 Tibetian gospel >origen.ha 17.277 Origen "On principles", ch. 4 (reincarnations) >strannik.zip 75.620 Wonderer's sincere tales to spiritual father >i_sirin.zip 13.662 Phrases by reverend Isaak Sirin > > East doctrines > >gita.ha 50.464 Bhagavad-gita (?) >bg01.ha 46.491 Bhagavad-gita (transl. by Kamenska) >bg02.ha 36.006 Bhagavad-gita (transl. by Neapolitansky) >bg03.ha 44.897 Bhagavad-gita (transl. by Prabhupada) >bgshloka.ha 22.932 Shlokas from Bhagavad-gita >aparoksa.zip 7.349 Sri Shankaracharya "Immediate cognition" >vishnu.ha 63.069 Vishnu-purana >upanishs.ha 1.013 Full list of 108 upanishadas (English) >isha.zip 18.397 Isha upanishad >shvetaup.zip 99.433 Shvetashvatara upanishad >atma.ha 1.023 Atma upanishad >mandukya.ha 1.043 Mandukya upanishad >kaushita.ha 11.989 Kaushitaki upanishad >katha.ha 58.028 Katha upanishad >kena.ha 29.211 Kena upanishad >vedanta.ha 23.686 Vedanta-sutra >shiva.ha 13.129 Siva-sutra >shank02.ha 9.891 Sri Shankaracharya "Vakyavrittih" (Explaining phrases) >chaterji.ha 60.891 Catterju "Esoteric religious philosophy of India" >viveka01.ha 9.406 Vivekananda "Inspired talks" >krmurti1.ha 14.884 Krishnamurti "At the feet of Master" >krmurti2.ha 7.551 Krishnamurti "Book of life" >krmurti3.ha 63.127 Krishnamurti "Freedom from known" >satprem1.ha 258.492 Satprem "Sri Aurobindo" >satprem2.ha 36.478 Satprem "On the path to superhuman" >advaifaq.ha 5.727 Sunderesan "Advaita Vedanta FAQ" > > Dharma (buddhism) > >anapanas.ha 3.627 Anapanasati-sutra >vajra01.ha 19.843 Vajracchehedika-Prajniaparamita sutra >vajra02.ha 14.456 Vajracchehedika-Prajniaparamita sutra [2] >dharma.ha 1.007 Dharmachakra Pravartana сутра sutra >kashyapa.ha 2.160 Kasyapa sutra >mahapari.ha 31.328 Mahaparanirvana sutra >sinhe.ha 3.702 Sutra, gift to general Sinha >hridaya.ha 11.511 Hridaya sutra >chakka.ha 11.087 Chakravartisihananda sutra >paraloka.ha 12.534 Paralokasiddhi >dhammapd.ha 21.640 Dhammapada >saddharm.ha 206.967 Sutra about lotus flower of wonderful dharma >siddhas.ha 73.430 Abhayadatta "Chaturashiti-siddha-pravritti" >dalai01.ha 21.143 Dalai-lama XIV "Buddhism of Tibet" >dalai02.ha 26.407 Dalai-lama XIV "Path to illumination" >dalai03.ha 11.982 Dalai-lama XIV "Eight verses training the mind" >adalai04.ha 13.058 Dalai-lama XIV "Медитация" >calu01.ha 21.218 Kalu rimpoche "Foundation of Buddhic meditation" >calu02.ha 127.952 Kalu rimpoche "Spoken instructions" >chogyam1.ha 336.577 Chogyam Trungpa "Mahamudra" >shamatha.ha 85.188 Geshs Tinley "Shamatha: basics of tibetian meditation" >gyaltsen.ha 55.317 K.Giltzen "Kagyupa" >cagyu.ha 36.906 Early masters of Kagyu in India & Tibet >nidal01.ha 9.715 Ole Nidal "On death & reincarnation" >nidal02.ha 16.349 Ole Nidal "Six emansipating actions" >nidal03.ha 22.491 Ole Nidal "Mahamudra destroing the tamas" >nidal04.ha 19.754 Ole Nidal "Teaching on nature of mind" >nidal05.ha 19.968 Ole Nidal "Instruction of Ngendro" >nidal06.ha 258.108 Ole Nidal "Riding a tiger" >nidal07.ha 26.033 Ole Nidal "Pho-va" >nidal08.ha 20.352 Ole Nidal "Mahamudra" >asanga.ha 2.096 Carola Schneider "Story about Asanga" > > Yoga > >yogasutr.ha 6.577 Patanjali "Yoga-sutra" >ramach01.ha 104.953 Ramacharaka "Basics of indian yogis worldview" >ramach02.ha 132.971 Ramacharaka "Raja-yoga" >ramach03.ha 39.095 Ramacharaka "Science of breath of indian yogis" >chinmoy1.ha 27.649 Sri Chinmoy "Kundalini: Mother-force" >sarasv01.ha 12.066 Swami Sarasvati "Two talks on japa-meditation" >sarasv02.ha 73.085 Swami Sarasvati "Bihar school of yoga" >hatha.ha 91.110 Yesudian & Heich "Hatha-yoga & health" > > Other > >masla.ha 25.613 Etheric oils - an ancient healing means >okk-phil.ha 95.989 Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa "Occult philosophy" v.1 >orphei.zip 33.841 Churet "Great initiated. Orpheos" >rektif.zip 9.877 Manual on astrological rectification >tibet-m.zip 8.284 Tibetian medicine handbook >m-ether.ha 7.372 Sinnett. Mendeleev's conception of ether >deadbook.ha 58.592 "Tibetian book of dead" (transl. by Tzvetkov) > >Important note: don't download *.ha archives using Netscape! >They can be correctly downloaded by MS internet explorer. >The unique case when Microsoft has done better than others :) > > > > Ageless Wisdom in modern forms: http://www.euronet.nl/users/euser/index.html From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:58:45 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: To attention of all russian-speaking persons (fwd) Message-ID: ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Hi TI-l-er's, can anyone forward this message to theos-l? Alan? Martin Euser euser@euronet.nl >Apparently-To: euser@euronet.nl >To: "euser@euronet.nl" >From: Kay Ziatz >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 00:32:08 +0300 >Subject: To attention of all russian-speaking presons >Organization: Wildflowers don't care where they grow >X-FTN-FLAGS: TRN K/S >X-FTN-MSGID: 2:5020/360.4 bbc13298 >X-FTN-PID: PPoint 1.86 >X-FTN-Tearline: PPoint 1.86 >X-FTN-Origin: Wildflowers don't care where they grow (2:5020/360.4) >X-FTN-Via: 2:5020/360@fidonet @19971130.064744.UTC+4 T-Mail 2603.DOS >X-FTN-Via: UniMail/W32 0.41b 2:5020/79, 30 Nov 1997 03:56:02 UTC +0300 >X-FTN-Via: Squish/386 1.11 2:5020/204, Sun Nov 30 1997 at 11:58 UTC >X-UIDL: 108ddb9c6e8767c141f98f8dc0a64647 > >Hello Martin! > >Please post this to theos-l & other theosophical & newage newsgroup >to which you're subscribed. > > > New WWW site (all the texts here are in Russian) > > www.chat.ru/~ulm > > > Theosophia > >usopshi.ha 78.691 E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" vol 1 (1914) >usop-war.ha 113.268 E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" vol 2 (1915) >usop-usa.ha 52.560 E. Barker "Letters of alive dead" vol 3 (1918) >teo-dict.ha 333.866 Theosophical Glossary by H.P.B. >letrmah1.ha 42.775 Letters of Masters of Wisdom, vol 1 >letrmah1.ha 71.277 Letters of Masters of Wisdom, vol 2 >pis-mah.ha 489.827 Mahatma letters (to Sinnett & Hume) >drevmudr.ha 153.910 A.Besant "Ancient Wisdom" >ab-lest.ha 11.481 A.Besant "Ladder of life" >eso-psyh.ha 214.903 A.Bailey "Esoteric Psychology" (Tr. on 7 rays vol.1) >ep_karma.ha 19.659 E.Pisareva "Karma or low of cause & effect" >ep_mysl.zip 21.790 E.Pisareva "Thought power & thoughtforms" >ep_struc.zip 22.780 E.Pisareva "Complicated constitutuon of man" >biogr.zip 38.287 E.Pisareva Short biography of H.P.Blavatsky >bowen.zip 7.047 R.Bowen "H.P.B. on studying theosophy" >gita_kom.zip 61.060 A.Besant "Comments to Bhagavad-gita" >th&h.zip 9.391 A.Besant "Does theosophy contradict christianity?" >esochr.zip 128.953 A.Besant "Esoteric christianity" >okk-hpb.zip 217.805 "Occult world of Blavatsky" > > Agni Yoga > >zov.zip 43.545 Call >ozarenie.zip 83.601 Illumination >obschina.zip 87.447 Commune >obsh_urg.zip 83.918 Commune (Urga edition) >ay.zip 135.202 Agni Yoga >bezpred_1.zip 66.760 Unlimiteness part 1 >bezpred_2.zip 71.048 Unlimiteness part 2 >ierarhia.zip 77.870 Hirearchy >serdce.zip 114.968 Heart >mo-one.zip 131.068 Fireworld part 1 >mo-two.zip 88.466 Fireworld part 2 >mo-thr.zip 107.722 Fireworld part 3 >aum.zip 97.754 Aum >brone.zip 94.473 Brotherhood part 1 >brtwo.zip 287.215 Brotherhood part 2 >brthr.zip 131.809 Brotherhood part 3 >grani_1.zip 244.768 Facets of Agni-yoga 1 >grani_5.ha 192.565 Facets of Agni-yoga 5 >grani_6.ha 164.967 Facets of Agni-yoga 6 >hagrani_7.ha 180.056 Facets of Agni-yoga 7 >grani_8.ha 180.038 Facets of Agni-yoga 8 >agni_op.ha 64.323 Fire experience >colors.ha 12.288 Agni-yoga about colors >dream.ha 29.625 E.I. Roerich "Dreams & visions" >aseev.zip 510.343 E.I. Roerich letters to Yugoslavia (to Aseev) >kript.ha 38.238 "Cryptogrammes of East" >os_mirop.ha 549.982 A.Klisovsky "Basics of Newage world understanding" >abramov1.ha 47.116 B.Abramov "Intented heart" >rokotova.ha 52.606 E.I. Roerich "Basics of Buddhism" >shambala.ha 24.011 N.K. Roerich "Shambhala the glowing" >serdceaz.zip 99.433 E.I. Roerich "Heart of Asia" >svet.zip 15.498 Light on the path >belikov.zip 165.419 F.Belikov "Roerich" >fosdik26.zip 13.108 Z.Fosdick "In Moscow & on Altai with Roerichs" (1926) > > Christianity > >foma-eva.ha 9.264 Gospel of Thoma >feodora.ha 14.405 Ordeals of blessed Theodora's soul >eva-mari.ha 9.030 Gospel of Maria >kumran.ha 55.301 About Kumran manuscripts (from Nag-Hammadi) >tibet-jc.ha 18.334 Tibetian gospel >origen.ha 17.277 Origen "On principles", ch. 4 (reincarnations) >strannik.zip 75.620 Wonderer's sincere tales to spiritual father >i_sirin.zip 13.662 Phrases by reverend Isaak Sirin > > East doctrines > >gita.ha 50.464 Bhagavad-gita (?) >bg01.ha 46.491 Bhagavad-gita (transl. by Kamenska) >bg02.ha 36.006 Bhagavad-gita (transl. by Neapolitansky) >bg03.ha 44.897 Bhagavad-gita (transl. by Prabhupada) >bgshloka.ha 22.932 Shlokas from Bhagavad-gita >aparoksa.zip 7.349 Sri Shankaracharya "Immediate cognition" >vishnu.ha 63.069 Vishnu-purana >upanishs.ha 1.013 Full list of 108 upanishadas (English) >isha.zip 18.397 Isha upanishad >shvetaup.zip 99.433 Shvetashvatara upanishad >atma.ha 1.023 Atma upanishad >mandukya.ha 1.043 Mandukya upanishad >kaushita.ha 11.989 Kaushitaki upanishad >katha.ha 58.028 Katha upanishad >kena.ha 29.211 Kena upanishad >vedanta.ha 23.686 Vedanta-sutra >shiva.ha 13.129 Siva-sutra >shank02.ha 9.891 Sri Shankaracharya "Vakyavrittih" (Explaining phrases) >chaterji.ha 60.891 Catterju "Esoteric religious philosophy of India" >viveka01.ha 9.406 Vivekananda "Inspired talks" >krmurti1.ha 14.884 Krishnamurti "At the feet of Master" >krmurti2.ha 7.551 Krishnamurti "Book of life" >krmurti3.ha 63.127 Krishnamurti "Freedom from known" >satprem1.ha 258.492 Satprem "Sri Aurobindo" >satprem2.ha 36.478 Satprem "On the path to superhuman" >advaifaq.ha 5.727 Sunderesan "Advaita Vedanta FAQ" > > Dharma (buddhism) > >anapanas.ha 3.627 Anapanasati-sutra >vajra01.ha 19.843 Vajracchehedika-Prajniaparamita sutra >vajra02.ha 14.456 Vajracchehedika-Prajniaparamita sutra [2] >dharma.ha 1.007 Dharmachakra Pravartana sutra >kashyapa.ha 2.160 Kasyapa sutra >mahapari.ha 31.328 Mahaparanirvana sutra >sinhe.ha 3.702 Sutra, gift to general Sinha >hridaya.ha 11.511 Hridaya sutra >chakka.ha 11.087 Chakravartisihananda sutra >paraloka.ha 12.534 Paralokasiddhi >dhammapd.ha 21.640 Dhammapada >saddharm.ha 206.967 Sutra about lotus flower of wonderful dharma >siddhas.ha 73.430 Abhayadatta "Chaturashiti-siddha-pravritti" >dalai01.ha 21.143 Dalai-lama XIV "Buddhism of Tibet" >dalai02.ha 26.407 Dalai-lama XIV "Path to illumination" >dalai03.ha 11.982 Dalai-lama XIV "Eight verses training the mind" >adalai04.ha 13.058 Dalai-lama XIV "" >calu01.ha 21.218 Kalu rimpoche "Foundation of Buddhic meditation" >calu02.ha 127.952 Kalu rimpoche "Spoken instructions" >chogyam1.ha 336.577 Chogyam Trungpa "Mahamudra" >shamatha.ha 85.188 Geshs Tinley "Shamatha: basics of tibetian meditation" >gyaltsen.ha 55.317 K.Giltzen "Kagyupa" >cagyu.ha 36.906 Early masters of Kagyu in India & Tibet >nidal01.ha 9.715 Ole Nidal "On death & reincarnation" >nidal02.ha 16.349 Ole Nidal "Six emansipating actions" >nidal03.ha 22.491 Ole Nidal "Mahamudra destroing the tamas" >nidal04.ha 19.754 Ole Nidal "Teaching on nature of mind" >nidal05.ha 19.968 Ole Nidal "Instruction of Ngendro" >nidal06.ha 258.108 Ole Nidal "Riding a tiger" >nidal07.ha 26.033 Ole Nidal "Pho-va" >nidal08.ha 20.352 Ole Nidal "Mahamudra" >asanga.ha 2.096 Carola Schneider "Story about Asanga" > > Yoga > >yogasutr.ha 6.577 Patanjali "Yoga-sutra" >ramach01.ha 104.953 Ramacharaka "Basics of indian yogis worldview" >ramach02.ha 132.971 Ramacharaka "Raja-yoga" >ramach03.ha 39.095 Ramacharaka "Science of breath of indian yogis" >chinmoy1.ha 27.649 Sri Chinmoy "Kundalini: Mother-force" >sarasv01.ha 12.066 Swami Sarasvati "Two talks on japa-meditation" >sarasv02.ha 73.085 Swami Sarasvati "Bihar school of yoga" >hatha.ha 91.110 Yesudian & Heich "Hatha-yoga & health" > > Other > >masla.ha 25.613 Etheric oils - an ancient healing means >okk-phil.ha 95.989 Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa "Occult philosophy" v.1 >orphei.zip 33.841 Churet "Great initiated. Orpheos" >rektif.zip 9.877 Manual on astrological rectification >tibet-m.zip 8.284 Tibetian medicine handbook >m-ether.ha 7.372 Sinnett. Mendeleev's conception of ether >deadbook.ha 58.592 "Tibetian book of dead" (transl. by Tzvetkov) > >Important note: don't download *.ha archives using Netscape! >They can be correctly downloaded by MS internet explorer. >The unique case when Microsoft has done better than others :) > > > > Ageless Wisdom in modern forms: http://www.euronet.nl/users/euser/index.html --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:01:43 -0800 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: information on copyrights Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971203100143.007bda50@imagiware.com> A few weeks ago we were discussing intellectual rights and the Internet. I just came across the following in an email folder, and thought it would be useful to post, since it mentions a number of common misconceptions that I've seen mentioned in the discussion. -- Eldon ---- > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:00:15 GMT > From: brad@clari.net (Brad Templeton) > Subject: Copyright Myths FAQ: 10 big myths about copyright explained 10 Big Myths about copyright explained By Brad Templeton 1) "If it doesn't have a copyright notice, it's not copyrighted." This was true in the past, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. For example, in the USA, almost everything created privately after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. The default you should assume for other people's works is that they are copyrighted and may not be copied unless you *know* otherwise. There are some old works that lost protection without notice, but frankly you should not risk it unless you know for sure. It is true that a notice strengthens the protection, by warning people, and by allowing one to get more and different damages, but it is not necessary. If it looks copyrighted, you should assume it is. This applies to pictures, too. You may not scan pictures from magazines and post them to the net, and if you come upon something unknown, you shouldn't post that either. The correct form for a notice is: "Copyright by " You can use C in a circle instead of "Copyright" but "(C)" has never been given legal force. The phrase "All Rights Reserved" used to be required in some nations but is now not needed. 2) "If I don't charge for it, it's not a violation." False. Whether you charge can affect the damages awarded in court, but that's essentially the only difference. It's still a violation if you give it away -- and there can still be heavy damages if you hurt the commercial value of the property. 3) "If it's posted to Usenet it's in the public domain." False. Nothing is in the public domain anymore unless the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain(*). Explicitly, as in you have a note from the author/owner saying, "I grant this to the public domain." Those exact words or words very much like them. Some argue that posting to Usenet implicitly grants permission to everybody to copy the posting within fairly wide bounds, and others feel that Usenet is an automatic store and forward network where all the thousands of copies made are done at the command (rather than the consent) of the poster. This is a matter of some debate, but even if the former is true (and in this writer's opinion we should all pray it isn't true) it simply would suggest posters are implicitly granting permissions "for the sort of copying one might expect when one posts to Usenet" and in no case is this a placement of material into the public domain. Furthermore it is very difficult for an implicit licence to supersede an explicitly stated licence that the copier was aware of. Note that all this assumes the poster had the right to post the item in the first place. If the poster didn't, then all the copies are pirate, and no implied licence or theoretical reduction of the copyright can take place. (*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting someting into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this issue regarder older copyright law versions. However, none of this applies to an original article posted to USENET. Note that granting something to the public domain is a complete abandonment of all rights. You can't make something "PD for non-commercial use." If your work is PD, other people can even modify one byte and put their name on it. 4) "My posting was just fair use!" See other notes on fair use for a detailed answer, but bear the following in mind: The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. Are you reproducing an article from the New York Times because you needed to in order to criticise the quality of the New York Times, or because you couldn't find time to write your own story, or didn't want your readers to have to pay to log onto the online services with the story or buy a copy of the paper? The former is probably fair use, the latter probably aren't. Fair use is almost always a short excerpt and almost always attributed. (One should not use more of the work than is necessary to make the commentary.) It should not harm the commercial value of the work (which is another reason why reproduction of the entire work is generally forbidden.) Note that most inclusion of text in Usenet followups is for commentary and reply, and it doesn't damage the commercial value of the original posting (if it has any) and as such it is fair use. Fair use isn't an exact doctrine, either. The court decides if the right to comment overrides the copyright on an indidvidual basis in each case. There have been cases that go beyond the bounds of what I say above, but in general they don't apply to the typical net misclaim of fair use. It's a risky defence to attempt. 5) "If you don't defend your copyright you lose it." False. Copyright is effectively never lost these days, unless explicitly given away. You may be thinking of trade marks, which can be weakened or lost if not defended. 6) "Somebody has that name copyrighted!" You can't "copyright a name," or anything short like that. Titles usually don't qualify -- but I doubt you may write a song entitled "Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey." (J.Lennon/P.McCartney) You can't copyright words, but you can trademark them, generally by using them to refer to your brand of a generic type of product or service. Like an "Apple" computer. Apple Computer "owns" that word applied to computers, even though it is also an ordinary word. Apple Records owns it when applied to music. Neither owns the word on its own, only in context, and owning a mark doesn't mean complete control -- see a more detailed treatise on this law for details. You can't use somebody else's trademark in a way that would unfairly hurt the value of the mark, or in a way that might make people confuse you with the real owner of the mark, or which might allow you to profit from the mark's good name. For example, if I were giving advice on music videos, I would be very wary of trying to label my works with a name like "mtv." :-) 7) "They can't get me, defendants in court have powerful rights!" Copyright law is mostly civil law. If you violate copyright you would usually get sued, not charged with a crime. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of criminal law, as is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt." Sorry, but in copyright suits, these don't apply the same way or at all. It's mostly which side and set of evidence the judge or jury accepts or believes more, though the rules vary based on the type of infringement. In civil cases you can even be made to testify against your own interests. 8) "Oh, so copyright violation isn't a crime or anything?" Actually, recently in the USA commercial copyright violation involving more than 10 copies and value over $2500 was made a felony. So watch out. (At least you get the protections of criminal law.) On the other hand, don't think you're going to get people thrown in jail for posting your E-mail. The courts have much better things to do than that. This is a fairly new, untested statute. 9) "It doesn't hurt anybody -- in fact it's free advertising." It's up to the owner to decide if they want the free ads or not. If they want them, they will be sure to contact you. Don't rationalize whether it hurts the owner or not, *ask* them. Usually that's not too hard to do. Time past, ClariNet published the very funny Dave Barry column to a large and appreciative Usenet audience for a fee, but some person didn't ask, and forwarded it to a mailing list, got caught, and the newspaper chain that employs Dave Barry pulled the column from the net, pissing off everybody who enjoyed it. Even if you can't think of how the author or owner gets hurt, think about the fact that piracy on the net hurts everybody who wants a chance to use this wonderful new technology to do more than read other people's flamewars. 10) "They e-mailed me a copy, so I can post it." To have a copy is not to have the copyright. All the E-mail you write is copyrighted. However, E-mail is not, unless previously agreed, secret. So you can certainly *report* on what E-mail you are sent, and reveal what it says. You can even quote parts of it to demonstrate. Frankly, somebody who sues over an ordinary message might well get no damages, because the message has no commercial value, but if you want to stay strictly in the law, you should ask first. On the other hand, don't go nuts if somebody posts your E-mail. If it was an ordinary non-secret personal letter of minimal commercial value with no copyright notice (like 99.9% of all E-mail), you probably won't get any damages if you sue them. ----------------- In Summary --------------------------- These days, almost all things are copyrighted the moment they are written, and no copyright notice is required. Copyright is still violated whether you charged money or not, only damages are affected by that. Postings to the net are not granted to the public domain, and don't grant you any permission to do further copying except *perhaps* the sort of copying the poster might have expected in the ordinary flow of the net. Fair use is a complex doctrine meant to allow certain valuable social purposes. Ask yourself why you are republishing what you are posting and why you couldn't have just rewritten it in your own words. Copyright is not lost because you don't defend it; that's a concept from trademark law. The ownership of names is also from trademark law, so don't say somebody has a name copyrighted. Copyright law is mostly civil law where the special rights of criminal defendants you hear so much about don't apply. Watch out, however, as new laws are moving copyright violation into the criminal realm. Don't rationalize that you are helping the copyright holder; often it's not that hard to ask permission. Posting E-mail is technically a violation, but revealing facts from E-mail isn't, and for almost all typical E-mail, nobody could wring any damages from you for posting it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Permission is granted to freely copy this document in electronic form, or to print for personal use. If you had not seen a notice like this on the document, you would have to assume you did not have permission to copy it. This document is still protected by you-know- what even though it has no copyright notice. It should be noted that the author, as publisher of an electronic newspaper on the net, makes his living by publishing copyrighted material in electronic form and has the associated biases. However, DO NOT E-MAIL HIM FOR LEGAL ADVICE; for that use other resources or consult a lawyer. Also note that while most of these principles are universal in Berne copyright signatory nations, some are derived from Canadian and U.S. law. This document is provided to clear up some common misconceptions about intellectual property law that are often seen on the net. It is not intended to be a complete treatise on all the nuances of the subject. A more detailed copyright FAQ, covering other issues including compilation copyright and more intricacies of fair use is available in the same places you found this note, or for FTP on rtfm.mit.edu in pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/law/copyright/faq. Also consider gopher://marvel.loc.gov/11/copyright for actual statutes. Another useful document is http://www.eff.org/pub/CAF/law/ip-primer This FAQ can be found at http://www.clari.net/brad/copymyths.html From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: a chaos xmas Message-ID: <971203133234_-2060853001@mrin79> found this on Zee-List. Enjoy. Chuck the Heretic Not long ago or so far far away, Santa was making preparations for his annual trip, attempting to deal with the stress of too many problems at once. Four of his elves had fallen ill after engaging in a flame war with some crazee chaoz mages and toy production had fallen well behind schedule. Santa had attempted to augment the elf toys with imports from China, but El Nino was spawning freak storms in the northern Pacific and causing severe shipping delays. On top of this, Rudolf had gotten both Dancer and Prancer pregnant so they would not be able to help pull the sleigh on Christmas Eve. As Santa massaged his forehead worrying and wondering what else could possibly go wrong this year, Mrs. Claus came into his office, beaming, "Santa, I have good news. Mother will be visiting for the holidays. Oh, by the way, the sleigh shop called and said you need new runners, but they'll need a deposit before they can order them." Frustrated, feeling his blood pressure rising, Santa went to his liquor cupboard for a shot of whiskey only to find that the elves had cleaned it out while entertaining their cousins from Orlando the previous evening. He checked his stash box, but that too was empty. Feeling like he was near the breaking point and that he might snap if he saw another smiling cherubic face, Santa put on his coat intending to take a long walk. But when Santa opened the door to leave he was met by a tiny angel holding a large Christmas tree. Smiling beatifically, the angel asked, "Where would you like me to put this tree, Santa?" And that, my friends, is how the little angel came to be on top of the Christmas tree. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:36:48 -0500 From: Vincent Beall Subject: Re: information on copyrights Message-ID: <3485A6C0.3A6@dmv.com> Eldon B Tucker wrote: > > A few weeks ago we were discussing intellectual rights > and the Internet. I just came across the following in > an email folder, and thought it would be useful to post, > since it mentions a number of common misconceptions that > I've seen mentioned in the discussion. Eldon, I have been told directly by copyright examiners at the US Copyright office that noone has a copyright without a copyright certificate, which must be applied for and a fee paid. They have also said that putting a copyright notice on your work offers some protection, but it is weak and may mean that you would lose a costly leagle battle to collect damages. Why don't you check with the copyright office directly? Vincent -- vincent@dmv.com http://home.dmv.com/~vincent/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 14:53:17 EST From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: New (?) Theory about Stanzas Message-ID: <199712031953.OAA25383@leo.vsla.edu> SUNY Press has just released another major work in its Western Esoteric Traditions series, New Age Religion and Western Culturer: Esotericism in the Mirror of Secular Thought by Wouter J. Hanegraaff. The author is a Research Fellow at the Department for the Study of Religions at Utrecht University, the Netherlands. I've just started it, finding quite thorough coverage of Cayce and Blavatsky, but can't comment on it overall except to say that it appears magisterial. A comprehensive study that all New Agers, esotericists, Theosophists, etc. will benefit by studying carefully. One nugget I want to share immediately is on page 453: "Karl R.H. Frick has called attention to an article by the sinologist Giovanni Hoffman, who points to the teachings of a Taoist of the fourth century named Ly-tzyn, or Dzyan in Tibetan. His book, Yu-Fu-King or "The Book of Secret Correspondences," was published in Florence in 1878. It seems probable that Blavatsky knew the contents of this book but incorrectly interpreted its contents as Vedic." Turns out Frick wrote in the 1970s and Hoffman in 1908 (in The Theosophist!). Hanegraaff is mistaken in thinking that HPB presents the Stanzas as Vedic, since she presents them rather as older than that and in a different language. But it would be interesting to see this Yu-Fu-King and check out any parallels to the Stanzas. Wonder if it was translated into Italian, or just what this publication in Florence was. Will check it out. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:17:58 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: information on copyrights Message-ID: <3485CC86.AC6@sprynet.com> Vincent Beall wrote: > Eldon, I have been told directly by copyright examiners at the US > Copyright office that noone has a copyright without a copyright > certificate, which must be applied for and a fee paid. They have also > said that putting a copyright notice on your work offers some > protection, but it is weak and may mean that you would lose a costly > leagle battle to collect damages. > > Why don't you check with the copyright office directly? I am interested in the exact wording of the question you asked the examiner. Also, we are talking more about legal/illegal and right/wrong, not what one can get away with. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:38:46 -0500 From: Vincent Beall Subject: Re: information on copyrights Message-ID: <3485D166.6375@dmv.com> Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > Vincent Beall wrote: > > Eldon, I have been told directly by copyright examiners at the US > > Copyright office that noone has a copyright without a copyright > > certificate, which must be applied for and a fee paid. They have also > > said that putting a copyright notice on your work offers some > > protection, but it is weak and may mean that you would lose a costly > > leagle battle to collect damages. > > > > Why don't you check with the copyright office directly? > > I am interested in the exact wording of the question you asked the > examiner. Also, we are talking more about legal/illegal and right/wrong, > not what one can get away with. > > Bart Lidofsky The legality is simply that your legal right to copyright is established by registration and reciept of the certificate. If you only post a notice of copyright without registration your right is not definitely estabished by law. Vincent -- vincent@dmv.com http://home.dmv.com/~vincent/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:55:22 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: information on copyrights Message-ID: <3485D54A.5CF7@sprynet.com> Vincent Beall wrote: > > Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > > > Vincent Beall wrote: > > > Eldon, I have been told directly by copyright examiners at the US > > > Copyright office that noone has a copyright without a copyright > > > certificate, which must be applied for and a fee paid. They have also > > > said that putting a copyright notice on your work offers some > > > protection, but it is weak and may mean that you would lose a costly > > > leagle battle to collect damages. > > > > > > Why don't you check with the copyright office directly? > > > > I am interested in the exact wording of the question you asked the > > examiner. Also, we are talking more about legal/illegal and right/wrong, > > not what one can get away with. > > > > Bart Lidofsky > > The legality is simply that your legal right to copyright is established > by registration and reciept of the certificate. If you only post a > notice of copyright without registration your right is not definitely > estabished by law. From what I have read, it is not a matter of law, but a matter of proving it in court. Or, as I said, getting away with it. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:23:34 -0800 From: Eldon B Tucker Subject: Re: information on copyrights Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971203142334.007b9180@imagiware.com> At 04:38 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Bart Lidofsky wrote: >> >> Vincent Beall wrote: >> > Eldon, I have been told directly by copyright examiners at the US >> > Copyright office that noone has a copyright without a copyright >> > certificate, which must be applied for and a fee paid. They have also >> > said that putting a copyright notice on your work offers some >> > protection, but it is weak and may mean that you would lose a costly >> > leagle battle to collect damages. >> > >> > Why don't you check with the copyright office directly? >> >> I am interested in the exact wording of the question you asked the >> examiner. Also, we are talking more about legal/illegal and right/wrong, >> not what one can get away with. >> >> Bart Lidofsky > >The legality is simply that your legal right to copyright is established >by registration and reciept of the certificate. If you only post a >notice of copyright without registration your right is not definitely >estabished by law. That *was* true until 1978, when the laws changed. Since then, there is automatic copyright on anything you write, regardless of whether you register the copyright or not. The law is quite clear about this, and it's quite plainly stated in the literature available from the copyright office and any article or FAQ providing summary information on US copyrights. Before 1978, if you published something and failed to put a copyright notice on it, it might fall into the public domain; but then the laws changed. Other changes to the law that happened then included an retroactive extension of the 58-year limit on copyrights to 75 years, which means that books copyrighted in 1923 will enter the public domain in a few weeks, as 1998 begins. -- Eldon From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:27:24 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: information on copyrights Message-ID: In message <3.0.3.32.19971203142334.007b9180@imagiware.com>, Eldon B Tucker writes >Since then, there is >automatic copyright on anything you write, regardless of whether you >register the copyright or not. The law is quite clear about this, and >it's quite plainly stated in the literature available from the >copyright office and any article or FAQ providing summary information >on US copyrights. Before 1978, if you published something and failed to >put a copyright notice on it, it might fall into the public domain; >but then the laws changed. Other changes to the law that happened then >included an retroactive extension of the 58-year limit on copyrights >to 75 years, which means that books copyrighted in 1923 will enter the >public domain in a few weeks, as 1998 begins. This has long been the case in the UK - first publication automatically confers copyright upon the author, though it is advisable to use "Copyright" and append the 'C' in a circle with the author's or owner's name alongside. Copyright used to pass into the public domain fifty years after the *death* of the original author, but a year or two ago it was extended to 70 years to conform with European practice. Theoretically, all new printed publications must in law have five copies sent to various national libraries (eg., Wales, Scotland) plus the British Library, which provides the ISBN number for printed books, and the ISSN number for serial publications (viz., magazines and newspapers). UK authors may voluntary send a copy of their work to the US Library of Congress, as I did with my 1985 "Bishops Irregular," for which I rceived a grateful acknowledgement. Copyright may, of course, be sold or assigned. Some pulp fiction publishers only print works they have purchased the copyright to. In the case of my own work mentioned above, I assigned the copyright to an American Institute in 1989 - for a fee - for a period of ten years, so that in 1999, it will revert back to me again. As a matter of interest to list users, ALL of HPB's writings are now out of copyright and in the public domain. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:41:49 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: New (?) Theory about Stanzas Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971203204149.00bad410@mail.eden.com> Have you all seen an old article in AT wherein I recall HPB mentioning that the Stanzas were brought from Lemuria and brought thru Dravidian and are in the South Indian language of Telugu which is the oldest Dravidian language. mkr At 02:53 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >SUNY Press has just released another major work in its Western >Esoteric Traditions series, New Age Religion and Western >Culturer: Esotericism in the Mirror of Secular Thought by >Wouter J. Hanegraaff. The author is a Research Fellow at the >Department for the Study of Religions at Utrecht University, >the Netherlands. I've just started it, finding quite thorough >coverage of Cayce and Blavatsky, but can't comment on it >overall except to say that it appears magisterial. A >comprehensive study that all New Agers, esotericists, >Theosophists, etc. will benefit by studying carefully. One >nugget I want to share immediately is on page 453: > >"Karl R.H. Frick has called attention to an article by the >sinologist Giovanni Hoffman, who points to the teachings of a >Taoist of the fourth century named Ly-tzyn, or Dzyan in >Tibetan. His book, Yu-Fu-King or "The Book of Secret >Correspondences," was published in Florence in 1878. It seems >probable that Blavatsky knew the contents of this book but >incorrectly interpreted its contents as Vedic." > >Turns out Frick wrote in the 1970s and Hoffman in 1908 (in The >Theosophist!). Hanegraaff is mistaken in thinking that HPB >presents the Stanzas as Vedic, since she presents them rather >as older than that and in a different language. But it would >be interesting to see this Yu-Fu-King and check out any >parallels to the Stanzas. Wonder if it was translated into >Italian, or just what this publication in Florence was. Will >check it out. > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 97 19:25:09 EST From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: HPB and copyright Message-ID: <199712050025.TAA16546@leo.vsla.edu> I can testify from painful and expensive experience that not all of HPB's writings are public domain. Caves and Jungles, translated a few decades ago by Boris de Zirkoff, is in that version copyrighted by TPH--Wheaton. Some articles in the Collected Writings that had never been published in English before are also new translations and copyrighted. I had to pay a whopping $225 to Wheaton to quote less than 2000 words from these sources; amounting to about 10% of total royalties for TMR. You can guess whose idea it was to charge me that amount. Of course, it was my own honesty that caused me to write seeking permission to quote. I doubt if anyone there would have realized that these things were in a different category than HPB's other writings, had I not figured it out myself and written for permission. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:06:14 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: HPB and copyright Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971204220614.00f496c0@mail.eden.com> At 07:25 PM 12/4/97 -0500, K. Paul Johnson wrote: >I can testify from painful and expensive experience that not >all of HPB's writings are public domain. Caves and Jungles, >translated a few decades ago by Boris de Zirkoff, is in that >version copyrighted by TPH--Wheaton. Some articles in the Collected >Writings that had never been published in English before are >also new translations and copyrighted. I had to pay a whopping >$225 to Wheaton to quote less than 2000 words from these >sources; amounting to about 10% of total royalties for TMR. >You can guess whose idea it was to charge me that amount. Of >course, it was my own honesty that caused me to write seeking >permission to quote. I doubt if anyone there would have >realized that these things were in a different category than >HPB's other writings, had I not figured it out myself and written >for permission. > Paul: Honesty and trustworthiness pays itself in the long run. You have done the right thing even though it costs you money. Once you act dishonestly, once found out, causes such damage that can never be fixed for love or money. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:06:35 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Speculation on the Return of the PROGENITORS Message-ID: <04c7745110405c7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> The Seceret Doctrine describes the parents of humanity as coming from other life waves, on other globes such as Venus for the fathers of our minds and the moon for the mother of our bodies. Other such as Zecheriah Stichen has suggested that a careful reading of the ancient Sumerian tablets reveals that our anscestors created us in their image to mine gold. The gold was poweder and put in the atmosphere to prevent global warming and ozone layer repair (Oh, if you believe AL Gore and all that, why not this???) Anyway they return every 5,00o years give our take a mini-milenium and when they come back, do you think that they will be pleased? What if this were true in some form.. You can substitute the Master M and KH and the Maha Chohan or the Adi-Buddha or the Cosmic CHrist it all come to the same moral imperative. Who will be seperate and what will be the crieria. Will it BELIEF? Will it be Vegetarianism, then Hitler would be saved?! Will it be doing unto others as you would have them do unto you? Many are waiting and many are leaving, I mean look at HEAVEN's GATE! I would like to think that an "I am sorry and it is all the fault of take your choice: my parents, society, the church, the fascists, the communists, the moral majority, and evil white men everywhere!" I don't think our Cosmic Parent will buy it . But I am practicing just in case. Hey! It works for our Washington Earth Father; William Clinton! Namaste Keith Price From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:51:15 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Speculation on the Return of the PROGENITORS Message-ID: <18b7d6f3.34879656@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-05 00:09:39 EST, you write: >Anyway they return every 5,00o years give our take a mini-milenium and when >they come back, do you think that they will be pleased? Who cares whether they'll be pleased or not. If they object we'll nuke 'em! Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:55:01 -0500 From: John E Mead Subject: Theos-xxx lists down briefly. Message-ID: <01IQXDR8RDAQ95XTSW@InfoAve.Net> hi - vnet has upgraded all of its operating systems. The discussion lists should be up again. However, expect some brief glitches this week. peace - john e. mead --- John E. Mead (jmead@infoave.net) 1-803-802-4659 Info Avenue Internet Services, LLC (ideas & words above are NOT those of InfoAve) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:54:09 +0200 From: Nicole Suter Subject: "Getting birds" Message-ID: >Honesty and trustworthiness pays itself in the long run. You have done the >right thing even though it costs you money. > >Once you act dishonestly, once found out, causes such damage that can never >be fixed for love or money. > >mkr But why the hell do so many act dishonestly in spite of what you are writing above in order to make out money? For instance I have seen on TV-news that in America they made a market research test about the peoples dreams and found out that they dream of a godness. So the hired an author writing books about the test results, started to sell these books (I am almost sure that t-shirts and cups etc. follow) and are at the time beeing founding travel agencies because the books say in the year 2000 Jesa (the name of the godness) shall appear in the desert Gobi. I am "getting birds" when I hear of something like this! Are they not aware in America that the year 2000 already was in 1997? What kind of a personality structure do salesmen have when there is nothing else left to sell than other peoples dreams? (It reminds me of the German movie "der Tod eines Handelsreisenden"). Why do some Americans so badly need retching-sweat-pink Holywood-facotries? Nicole From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:54:54 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: "Getting birds" Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971208115454.010ef0fc@mail.eden.com> When greed for money or power takes possession, everyone tried to fudge and take advantage of the situation and exploit it. Everywhere, there is a market for anything you can imagine -- good, bad and indifferent. It is the honest minority who are honest for honesty's sake. It is their conscience that makes them honest. mkr At 11:57 AM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Honesty and trustworthiness pays itself in the long run. You have done the >>right thing even though it costs you money. >> >>Once you act dishonestly, once found out, causes such damage that can never >>be fixed for love or money. >> >>mkr > >But why the hell do so many act dishonestly in spite of what you are writing >above in order to make out money? > >For instance I have seen on TV-news that in America they made a market >research test about the peoples dreams and found out that they dream of a >godness. So the hired an author writing books about the test results, started >to sell these books (I am almost sure that t-shirts and cups etc. follow) and >are at the time beeing founding travel agencies because the books say in >the year 2000 Jesa (the name of the godness) shall appear in the desert >Gobi. I am "getting birds" when I hear of something like this! > >Are they not aware in America that the year 2000 already was in 1997? >What kind of a personality structure do salesmen have when there is >nothing else left to sell than other peoples dreams? (It reminds me of >the German movie "der Tod eines Handelsreisenden"). Why do some >Americans so badly need retching-sweat-pink Holywood-facotries? > >Nicole > > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 97 14:09:15 EST From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: America bashing Message-ID: <199712081909.OAA20095@leo.vsla.edu> According to theos-l@vnet.net: > For instance I have seen on TV-news that in America they made a market > research test about the peoples dreams and found out that they dream of a > godness. So the hired an author writing books about the test results, started > to sell these books (I am almost sure that t-shirts and cups etc. follow) and > are at the time beeing founding travel agencies because the books say in > the year 2000 Jesa (the name of the godness) shall appear in the desert > Gobi. I am "getting birds" when I hear of something like this! This is all news to me. But commercialism is not an American invention. > > Are they not aware in America that the year 2000 already was in 1997? Beg pardon? If you're talking about 2000 years after Jesus's birth, that'll be something like 2004 according to virtually unanimous consensus among scholars. > What kind of a personality structure do salesmen have when there is > nothing else left to sell than other peoples dreams? (It reminds me of > the German movie "der Tod eines Handelsreisenden"). Why do some > Americans so badly need retching-sweat-pink Holywood-facotries? Having been hanging out on soc.culture.usa, rec.travel.europe and some related ngs, I realized that some Europeans seem to devote a hell of a lot of attention to looking down on Americans. A German, a GERMAN for Chrissakes, had the nerve to announce that Americans had killed more people than any other country. I did some research and found the 20th century death totals for Germany and Russia to be in the 30-50 million range, for America 3-5. Russians, too, can be found on the newsgroups insisting that our 20th century history has been as bloody as their own! And some idiotic Americans are agreeing with them to boot. That's all irrelevant to your question, Nicole, but I would suggest to you that divining people's dreams and figuring out ways to cash in on them is what advertising is all about, and I don't think Europeans are any less manipulated by advertising than we are. Don't know what you mean by retching-sweat-pink Hollywood factories. But the *world* "needs" the crap that Hollywood cranks out; America exports culture all over the world, and Europeans are the biggest consumers of it. I think Dallas and Dynasty were more popular over there than they were here, and we're talking bottom of the entertainment barrel. Europeans resent the hell out of the fact that they are avid consumers of American pop culture, but it surely is not *our* fault that they are. And unlike even a few years ago, Europe is not exporting much culture to speak of in this direction; wish it were otherwise. PJ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:37:42 -0500 From: jim meier Subject: on SuperBugs and the evolution of Man Message-ID: <199712081540_MC2-2B28-EC24@compuserve.com> Some months ago, Bart wrote an interesting post on "superbacteria" as a model-of-sorts for the exchange of information in groups speeding evolution of the individual ("The New Adepts," Oct 11, theos-l digest 1279). His post then started a thread on the role of TS, etc. His comments reminded me of these from HUMAN DESTINY by Lecomte Du Nouy, pps 116-117: ******** FREEDOM AND THE GROWTH OF MAN "Unquestionably, when considering the majority of men, it is possible to doubt the reality of the moral idea. The examples we see daily enable the pessimist to ask himself if the chasm between the animal and man is as deep as we thought. The answer is that we are still at the dawn of human evolution, and that, if only one man out of a million were endowed with a conscience, this would suffice to prove that a new degree of liberty had appeared. Many important steps in the history of evolution started out as a mutation affecting only a very small number of individuals, perhaps only one. Similarly, the moral idea must have been sparsely distributed, and was, in fact, so fragile that instead of conferring a physical superiority upon those who harboured it, it constituted rather a hindrance. Indeed, at the time of the cave man, sentimentalism, pity, fairness, charity, all the budding qualities highly valued today in mankind, must have been a serious handicap to those who had to face the unconscious cruelty and brutality of the others. Such conflicts are not infrequent in our time. However, on an average, and in spite of their weaknesses and subjection to ancestral instincts, the masses are responsive to the great virtues which have always enjoyed a surprising prestige even though they were not practiced. Today, when large groups of men fail to react as we think they should, when there is no collective response, there are nevertheless many individuals who, without being themselves exceptionally virtuous, without having martyr souls, spontaneously revolt and sometimes end by carrying away the crowd. The history of humanity abounds in such examples and evokes the picture of a climbing vine. If its prop is pulled up or broken, the plant creeps along the ground, unknowingly seeking a new support, another occasion to raise itself above the weeds, and as soon as it has found one it clings to it in an unconscious but untiring effort toward the light. It is sometimes mistaken; its choice may be bad; the branch it had adopted may be rotten; that is not its fault. The human flock obeys an obscure order: it must rise, and it cannot do so without a leader. Thank God, if there have been evil influences, they have been couteracted, on an average, by that of certain rare, privileged men, comparable to the transitional animals who were in advance of their time. These men attained a higer stage of evolution, and had a great part to play, a high duty to fulfil; namely, to orient the march of humanity in the path which leads away from the animal. Strange to say, in spite of their handicaps, of the fact that the doctrine they taught was less pleasant and demanded sacrifice, it is they who gained the higher prestige in history, and their teachings outlasted and outshone all the others. By giving man liberty and conscience, God abdicated a part of His omnipotence in favor of His creature, and this represents the spark of God in man ("God is within you"). Liberty is real, for God Himself refused to trammel it. It is necessary, for without it man cannot progress, cannot evolve. Consequently, any restriction to liberty of conscience is contrary to the great law of evolution; that is, to the divine Will, and represents Evil. If certain individuals make bad use of their freedom, so much the worse for them. The test was unfavorable. They were not evolved enough to understand. As far as they are concerned, the trial was a failure. In nature, chance favors a small number of eggs out of hundreds of thousands laid by one fish. As it is impossible to distinguish one egg from another, it does not matter which one survives. In mankind, the individual is no longer discernable, and each being had an equal chance to qualify as an element of moral evolution. If man does not seize this chance, if he does not understand intuitively or rationally the significance of his decision, it denotes that he was not fitted to play his part. Others will assume the responsibility of assuring the ascendant march of evolution. We must, therefore, instruct men, and not blindfold them under the pretext that society will lead them by the hand and guide them. Nobody has the right to substitute his own conscience for that of another, for progress depends upon *personal effort*, and to suppress this effort constitutes a crime. The whole will of man must be concentrated on this struggle in which he is upheld by the newly acquired sense of his human dignity, from which he must draw at the same time the necessary strength and the proof of his high destiny. *It is in the intensity of this effort, and not it its form nor in its result, that the true degree of humanization is revealed*. In the telefinalist language, as well as in that of the Scriptures, liberty was given to man by God. This is true in every realm, physical as well as moral, and condemns certain doctrines on the same grounds as dictatorship. *Liberty is not only a privelege, it is a test*. No human institution has the right to exempt man from it. The immediate conclusion is that liberty of conscience can manifest itself constructively only if the individual has access to all sources of information, if he is free to exert his judgement without hindrance. This is equivalent to the confrontation of new animal species with its environment, the test of adaptation. He must, therefore, be equally free to gather the element he deems necessary for the formation of his judgement. From the strict point of view of Genesis it is inexcusable for a strange will to substitute itself for his and to effectuate a preliminary choice capable of influencing him. So that his judgement may be healthy and undeformed man must be free to cultivate his faculty of reasoning and to instruct himself. Those who need to be guided are not quite free. They must be enlightened and not compelled." (*emphasis* author's) *********** Jim From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:17:17 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: America bashing Message-ID: In a message dated 97-12-08 14:48:08 EST, you write: >Europeans resent the hell out of the fact that they are avid >consumers of American pop culture, but it surely is not *our* >fault that they are. And unlike even a few years ago, Europe >is not exporting much culture to speak of in this direction; >wish it were otherwise. > >PJ It has a lot to do with the fact that all the intelligent Europeans came over here and what is left now is the dregs of the genetic material after they managed to kill off all their good stock in two world wars leaving the rest to breed with their first cousins. But hell, if you lived in a molding museum with people whose best days are material for history books you'd be jealous too. Europe is a nice tourist attraction but nothing that comes out of it now is to be taken seriously. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:29:43 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: America bashing Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971208222943.00ac9ccc@mail.eden.com> At 04:06 PM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-08 14:48:08 EST, you write: > >>Europeans resent the hell out of the fact that they are avid >>consumers of American pop culture, but it surely is not *our* >>fault that they are. And unlike even a few years ago, Europe >>is not exporting much culture to speak of in this direction; >>wish it were otherwise. >> >>PJ > >It has a lot to do with the fact that all the intelligent Europeans came over >here and what is left now is the dregs of the genetic material after they >managed to kill off all their good stock in two world wars leaving the rest to >breed with their first cousins. But hell, if you lived in a molding museum >with people whose best days are material for history books you'd be jealous >too. > >Europe is a nice tourist attraction but nothing that comes out of it now is to >be taken seriously. > >Chuck the Heretic Has anyone figured out why the crime rate in the "developed" countries to be very high and all the prisons are overflowing, whereas in most of the "undeveloped" countries/places, crime is not much known and prisons are mostly empty. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:19:19 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication Message-ID: <348C9C97.2574@sprynet.com> K. Paul Johnson wrote: > Beg pardon? If you're talking about 2000 years after Jesus's > birth, that'll be something like 2004 according to virtually > unanimous consensus among scholars. Your history may be good, but your arithmetic leaves something to be desired. On the other hand, is there a shred of historic evidence that Jesus even existed? Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:05:06 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: America bashing? Message-ID: In message , Drpsionic writes >all the intelligent Europeans came over >here and what is left now is the dregs of the genetic material after they >managed to kill off all their good stock in two world wars leaving the rest to >breed with their first cousins. But hell, if you lived in a molding museum >with people whose best days are material for history books you'd be jealous >too. Listen, pal - we dregs have rights! Having been to your glorious land of the right to the pursuit of happiness etc., I was quite content to come back and rejoin the other dreggies. We feel more comfortable in our leather-bound history books and scenic views. Mind you, we never perfected the art - yes art - of a *real* hotdog ... like the one I had in NJ ... [sigh] ... before I became veggiefied. May is say I found those Americans I met personally to be very generous people - except with money. Gifts, fine, but cash - nope. Hospitality - probably the best I have found. Now go into a corner and glow ... Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:23:56 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: America bashing Message-ID: <348C9DAC.54C3@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > Has anyone figured out why the crime rate in the "developed" countries to be > very high and all the prisons are overflowing, whereas in most of the > "undeveloped" countries/places, crime is not much known and prisons are > mostly empty. In "undeveloped" countries, they just kill the criminals. Saves room in prisons. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:44:43 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: The millenium has passed ... Message-ID: In message <199712081909.OAA20095@leo.vsla.edu>, "K. Paul Johnson" writes >> Are they not aware in America that the year 2000 already was in 1997? > >Beg pardon? If you're talking about 2000 years after Jesus's >birth, that'll be something like 2004 according to virtually >unanimous consensus among scholars. Err ... wrong way round. 2000 years after J's putative birth brings us to 1996 ....... consensus is around 4 b.c.e. (before common era). Hehehehehe Alan [scholar] --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Thi-Kim Tran) Subject: Re: America bashing Message-ID: Hey, don't knock Europe. If it weren't for Europe, we wouldn't be entertained by the Princess Di and the paparazzis tragedy. That's their most recent major cultural import to America. Thoa Chuck: >In a message dated 97-12-08 14:48:08 EST, you write: > >>Europeans resent the hell out of the fact that they are avid >>consumers of American pop culture, but it surely is not *our* >>fault that they are. And unlike even a few years ago, Europe >>is not exporting much culture to speak of in this direction; >>wish it were otherwise. >> >>PJ > >It has a lot to do with the fact that all the intelligent Europeans came over >here and what is left now is the dregs of the genetic material after they >managed to kill off all their good stock in two world wars leaving the rest to >breed with their first cousins. But hell, if you lived in a molding museum >with people whose best days are material for history books you'd be jealous >too. > >Europe is a nice tourist attraction but nothing that comes out of it now is to >be taken seriously. > >Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Thi-Kim Tran) Subject: Re: America bashing Message-ID: In the "undeveloped" countries/places, we just have idyllic mass starvation, tribal massacres, slavery, and dictatorship. Thoa Doss: >Has anyone figured out why the crime rate in the "developed" countries to be >very high and all the prisons are overflowing, whereas in most of the >"undeveloped" countries/places, crime is not much known and prisons are >mostly empty. > >mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:59:46 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: America bashing? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971209015946.00ac923c@mail.eden.com> At 08:26 PM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote: > >May is say I found those Americans I met personally to be very generous >people - except with money. Gifts, fine, but cash - nope. Hospitality >- probably the best I have found. Now go into a corner and glow ... > >Alan You are very observant! Everything is converted to money here and almost everything is available for sale at a right price, most of the time. Of course, once in a while you find an exception. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 09:07:44 -0500 From: John E Mead Subject: Tibetan world peace Mandala Message-ID: <01IQYQEXBRBY94PAC9@InfoAve.Net> FYI only - John E. Mead >Subject: The 1000 Lights Ceremony is growing. Join! 10th dec. >Hi list, here's another shared activity we can support, individualy or collectively. It's up in just a couple days. I have a special place in my heart for Tibet! Peace on earth! Kiara > THE 1000 LAMP MANDALA CEREMONY FOR PEACE IN TIBET=20 > AND OUR PRECIOUS WORLD: > > Is now performed at 38 places worldwide. > Many sincere thanks to all supporters. > > You can join this yearly ceremony by the very simple act of=20 > lighting a candle in your window at: > 10th December 1997 at sunset. > > Independent of tradition, who you are=20 > and what you believe in, simple and easy. > Although tiny, still significant. > > For further information: http://www.tibet.dk/charity/mandala/ =20 > > May we succeed joining! > > You can also construct a free format mandala or other symbol > with 1000 lights together with some humans around you on a=20 > good place as eg. churches, temples, public squares etc. > and light it at the 10th December 1997 kl at sunset. > > For constructing a mandala see:=20 > http://www.tibet.dk/charity/mandala/draft.htm > > Please join your support by adding your coordinates at=20 > our server: http://www.tibet.dk/charity/mandala/world1.htm > or by sending us a mail or fax. > > Please forward this message to any suitable parties either > by personal contact, fax, email, phone or other means. > Remember especially those who do not have the luxury of email. > > Sincere best wishes > Tibet Charity:=20 > WWW: http://www.tibet.dk/charity/=20 > Email: tibetdk@hotmail.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > World Appeal from T.D. Lakha Lama > > To all: > > I am happy to inform you that we are arranging: > "The 1000 Lamp Mandala Ceremony" for Tibet in the cities of=20 > Aarhus and Copenhagen, Denmark and many other places on the=20 > Day of Human Rights, and Nobel Peace Price at;=20 > December the 10th at 18.00 o'clock. > > The work has already begun in Aarhus and Copenhagen and other=20 > places, but I would sincerely appreciate interested parties=20 > to commence similar initiatives all over the World. > > I know that it is impossible for many people to fully join in > the ceremony. However, their participation and concern may be > demonstrated if they would just light a candle and put it on > the windowsill at the same day and time. The purpose is to > lighten up the many years of darkness that have been > oppressing Tibet. > > The mandala format is flexible. It could be in two or three > dimensions ie. flat or as an erect structure. The choice is > fully on the parties that take up the challenge. > > I wish to thank all those who have sympathy for the Human > Rights in Tibet. > > Yours truly T.D. Lakha, Denmark > --- John E. Mead (jmead@infoave.net) 1-803-802-4659 Info Avenue Internet Services, LLC (ideas & words above are NOT those of InfoAve) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:29:51 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: America bashing Message-ID: In a message dated 97-12-08 21:03:59 EST, you write: >Hey, don't knock Europe. If it weren't for Europe, we wouldn't be >entertained by the Princess Di and the paparazzis tragedy. That's their >most recent major cultural import to America. > >Thoa I rest my case. All they have is useless royalty and idiots. Chuck the Heretc From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:33:10 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: The millenium has passed ... Message-ID: <4c89401b.348cca0f@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-08 21:36:36 EST, you write: From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:41:03 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Revolution Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971211174103.006ea9f8@mail.eden.com> In ML to APS, there is a statement that leave your world and you have to come to ours. Looks like what K talks about in the following excerpt a friend e-mailed me. Worth thinking about. mkr ================================================== Questioner: You say that we should revolt against society, and at same time you say that we should not have ambition. Is not the desire to improve society an ambition? Krishnamurti: I have very carefully explained what I mean by revolt, but I shall use two different words to make it much clearer. To revolt within society in order to make it a little better, to bring about certain reforms, is like the revolt of prisoners to improve their life within the prison walls; and such revolt is no revolt at all, it is just mutiny. Do you see the difference? Revolt within society is like the mutiny of prisoners who want better food, better treatment within the prison; but revolt born of understanding is an individual breaking away from society, and that is creative revolution. Now, if you as an individual break away from society, is that action motivated by ambition? If it is, then you have not broken away at all, you are still within the prison, because the very basis of society is ambition, acquisitiveness, greed. But if you understand all that and bring about a revolution in your own heart and mind, then you are no longer ambitious, you are no longer motivated by envy, greed, acquisitiveness, and therefore you will be entirely outside of a society which is based on those things. Then you are a creative individual and in your action there will be the seed of a different culture. So there is a vast difference between the action of creative revolution, and the action of revolt or mutiny within society. As long as you are concerned with mere reform, with decorating the bars and walls of the prison, you are not creative. Reformation always needs further reform, it only brings more misery, more destruction. Whereas, the mind that understands this whole structure of acquisitiveness, of greed, of ambition and breaks away from it--such a mind is in constant revolution. It is an expansive, a creative mind; therefore, like a stone thrown into a pool of still water, its action produces waves, and those waves will form a different civilization altogether." -- Krishnamurti, "Think On These Things", pp. 155-156 From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:59:01 -0800 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Re: Revolution Message-ID: I know I'm committing the sin of posting the same thing on two lists. However, I just finished posting this to the theos-talk, when your post popped up. I thought what I just wrote goes with your post. Krishnamurti: A state of awareness is observation "without justification, without condemnation and without identification". It is observation of truth and false, as opposed to good or bad. It doesn't mean that you have to give up your morals, etc., but it means subordinating it to pure observation. The mind has several weaknesses that creates conflict. Firstly, it divides the totality into pieces where we often see only a very tiny part of the picture. Secondly, it is often not in the present. Relying on our past prejudices and conditioning makes us generalize a situation instead of seeing it for its freshness. Lastly, it is strong in "I". "I" is inevitable because fragmentizing forces us to side with a particular piece. It takes ego and "I" to take up a cause. Jung: We need to know our total self, shadow and light, in order to be aware of evil. We need to know ourselves at our very best, and at our very worst. We have to realize that both are realities, both shadow and light, both are a part of us, and both require loving. In this way, we will not delude ourselves. In this way, we will become more moral. Working with our shadow forces us to be responsible for our actions, to be aware of them, to realize our duality, to rid ourselves of our perfect ideals, and, in getting rid of them, we judge less and open our hearts more. Hegel: In dialectic, an idea (thesis) will cause its opposite (antithesis), and yet they mutually interpenetrate. The more extreme an idea, the more extreme its antithesis. For example, a nation of extreme conservatism will eventually cause a nation of extreme liberalism. Unless we're arhats or been lobotomized, we each have plenty of opportunities to observe conflicts within ourselves and others. In each of those observations, condemnation for an idea will only cause a greater defending of an opposing idea. We become separated, our shadow from the light. As light forces itself, so will shadow rear its head in opposition. Thoa :o) >In ML to APS, there is a statement that leave your world and you have to >come to ours. Looks like what K talks about in the following excerpt a >friend e-mailed me. Worth thinking about. > >mkr >================================================== > > > Questioner: You say that we should revolt against society, and at same > time you say that we should not have ambition. Is not the > desire to improve society an ambition? > > Krishnamurti: I have very carefully explained what I mean by revolt, but > I shall use two different words to make it much clearer. To revolt within > society in order to make it a little better, to bring about certain > reforms, is like the revolt of prisoners to improve their life within the > prison walls; and such revolt is no revolt at all, it is just mutiny. Do > you see the difference? Revolt within society is like the mutiny of > prisoners who want better food, better treatment within the prison; but > revolt born of understanding is an individual breaking away from society, > and that is creative revolution. > Now, if you as an individual break away from society, is that action > motivated by ambition? If it is, then you have not broken away at all, you > are still within the prison, because the very basis of society is ambition, > acquisitiveness, greed. But if you understand all that and bring about a > revolution in your own heart and mind, then you are no longer ambitious, > you are no longer motivated by envy, greed, acquisitiveness, and therefore > you will be entirely outside of a society which is based on those things. > Then you are a creative individual and in your action there will be the > seed of a different culture. > So there is a vast difference between the action of creative revolution, > and the action of revolt or mutiny within society. As long as you are > concerned with mere reform, with decorating the bars and walls of the > prison, you are not creative. Reformation always needs further reform, it > only brings more misery, more destruction. Whereas, the mind that > understands this whole structure of acquisitiveness, of greed, of ambition > and breaks away from it--such a mind is in constant revolution. It is an > expansive, a creative mind; therefore, like a stone thrown into a pool of > still water, its action produces waves, and those waves will form a > different civilization altogether." > -- Krishnamurti, "Think On These Things", pp. 155-156 From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:18:09 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Revolution Message-ID: <34905891.E347640E@sprynet.com> Thoa Tran wrote: > I know I'm committing the sin of posting the same thing on two lists. Actually, that's not a sin at all; while there is overlapping membership on the various theosophical lists, if you want to reach everybody, you need to post the message on multiple lists. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:45:17 +0200 From: Nicole Suter Subject: A silly question Message-ID: ">To All: If one tries to realize that one is but pure spirit - >what does the spirit have to learn on earth? > >Nicole How to party. Chuck the Heretic" GREAT (hics, hics) - I am ready to leave! Nicole From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:53:23 +0200 From: Nicole Suter Subject: America bashing Message-ID: "Are you sure that was me? I never wear blue socks. Chuck the Heretic" You said so. The blue socks were unworn. Nicole From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:03:32 +0200 From: Nicole Suter Subject: A silly question Message-ID: "Spirit can take care of itself and learn for itself! .mkr" AHA - so in future I shall enjoy the beach life on the Christmas Islands and my spirit can do my work in the office, pay the rent and income taxes ... Wauw in 1998 everything changes! Nicole From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:08:47 +0200 From: Nicole Suter Subject: A silly question Message-ID: "Why assume "learning" is the point of everything? Maybe just the sheer joy of experience is what we are after ... the opportunity to play upon a strange and interesting frequency band. -JRC" "sheer joy of experience" sounds great. What does a strange and interesting frequency band exactly mean? Nicole From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 07:35:40 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Can you feel it? Message-ID: <0b8d80441130dc7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> The lineup of planets in Sagitarius, Capricorn and Aquarius is remarkable from an astronomical perspective (the sky looks amazing, especially at sunset) and astrological (I feel unusually upbeat for this time of year, no holiday blues yet, knock on my Grand Cross). Last year the Capricorn lineup was a little dour and depressing. I guess it depends on how they are aspecting one's individual chart. The harmonic convergence came and went without much difference for me. This planetary allignment seems to presage good things. What does it mean for the planet? Who knows? Maybe it will stabilize things for a while. Happy Holidays! Christmas Namaste Keith Price From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:40:44 +1100 From: tosaki Subject: Re: Mondrian Message-ID: <34929E6D.6172@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au> Dear Thoa, Sorry for long time cease-fire (anyway cosmic fire never stop). Now I got through a long tunnel. So let's get back to the Laya center court. Thoa Thi-Kim Tran wrote: > > Eiichi: > >A semiotist Victor A. Grauer finds similarity between Mondrian's > >dialectic and Adorno's 'negative dialectic'. (Victor A. Grauer, > >'Mondrian and the Dialectic of Essence', Art Criticism, Vol. 11, No. 1, > >State University of New York at Stony Brook, Stony Brook, NY,1996, n. 65 > >pp. 25-26 ). So I am interested in Adorno's 'negative dialectic'. > >Zuidervaart explains Adorno's 'negative dialectic' in the book (Lambert > >Zuidervaart, 'Adorno's Aesthetic Theory: The Redemption of Illusion', > >The MIT Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, and London, England, 1991, > >p.48) : > > > >"Adorno's arguments are dialectical in the sense that they highlight > >unavoidable tensions between polar oppositions whose opposition > >constitutes their unity and generates historical change. The dialectic > >is negative in the sense that it refuses to affirm any underlying > >identity or final synthesis of polar oposites, even though Adorno > >continually points to the possibility of reconciliation. The main > >oppositions occur between the particular and the universal and between > >culture in a narrow sense and society as a whole." > > > >and quote: > > > >"It [Adorno's dialectical aesthetic] deals with reciprocal relations > >between universal and particular where the universal is not imposed on > >the particular 'but emerges from the dynamic of particularities > >themselves." > > > >The similarity is quite evident when the above passage from Zuidervaart's > >book is compared to a statement Mondrian put forward (below) > >regarding the individual and the universal: > > > >Subjectivity remains subjective, but it diminishes in the measure that > >objectivity (the universal) grows in the individual. > > > >To understand Mondrian's style of thinking and his idiomatic terminology > >and turn of phrase, familiarity with the special kind of'dialectic' in > >his dualistic arguments is requisite. An example which typifies Mondrian's > >operation of dialectical logic can be found in 'Liberation from > >Oppression in Art and Life' (1939-40) where he relates: > > > >"In the present moment, oppression is so clearly evident that everyone > >must regard it as one of the greatest evils. But does everyone see this > >evil in its real significance, in its positive and negative factors? > >'Human life is oppressed by internal causes both physical and moral' > >as well as by external factors. It is necessary to fight against both. > >All that can help us to understand the evils of oppression is useful to > >present and future. Therefore, it is essential to demonstrate that > >plastic art can help to clarify this evil. We can conclude that plastic > >art shows a double action manifested in life and in art: an action of > >decay and an action of growth, a progress of intensification and > >determination of the fundamental aspect of forms, and a decay through > >the reduction of their external aspect." > > > >In this example of Mondrian's perception of dichotomy, in this case > >'internal causes vs. external causes', it is a dichotomy not of conflict > >'each element juxtaposed against the other' but of a dialectical > >complexion. In Mondrian's dialectical dichotomy, one element can > >transform the other by means of clarifying the discrimination between > >both elements. And also I found common attitude facing things between > >Mondrian and Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein said somewhere (sorry I do not > >remember the reference ) something like this: I find that my own voice > >is much more important than the other philosophers'." Both of them were > >independent thinkers. Recently I found W. J. T. Mitchell's book "Picture > >Theory" (The University of Chicago Press, 1994, ISBN: 0-226-53231-3) > >very interesting (but unfortunately I can not find enough time to finish > >the book). He is also Wittgensteian. I have also found a lot of > >interesting books or essays about rhythm. If you are interested in the > >theory of rhythm itself, I will be quite happy to introduce some of them > >to you. > > Adorno's argument is very materialistic and rationalistic. Are you using > the relation to Adorno as a way of drawing away from the mystical intent of > Mondrian's art? I disagree that Adorno's rationalistic argument is similar > to Mondrian's. In Adorno's argument, you have to see the particulars in > order to guess at the universal, instead of turning away from the > particulars and using intuition to turn to the universal, to something > hidden and beyond the particulars (mystical). Basically, a rationalist > looks at the known things, while a mystic turns away from the material > world to look at the unknown. > > As an example, take a look at what Mondrian said: > > >Subjectivity remains subjective, but it diminishes in the measure that > >objectivity (the universal) grows in the individual. > > That's a mystical, not a rationalist point of view. As an example, let me > illustrate this relation to a yogic point of view. Before the initiate > seriously practices yoga, s/he has a very subjective personal identity > reference. By practicing yogic meditation, the core of the personal > reference is seen to be identical with universal being which brings about > the fundamental transformation of the personality, so that the person > eventually starts to become an embodiment of the universal. For example, > now I can say I'm Thoa Tran, artist, I wake up in the morning, I practice > martial arts, etc., but after successful yogic practice, I realize that all > of my identity is just a shell. I leave the worldly layer and look inward > to see who I really am. I will see the interior light and realize that my > being is different than my personification of it. Through that discovery, > I begin to touch the spiritual, becoming more compassionate, etc. > For Hegel, philosophy and religion are identical: The content is the same, the form is different. He said that Philosophy "accomplishes" Christianity. Rationalists' arguments are not necessarily based on the "known things", nor just looking at materialistic side of the things. For Mondrian as well religious and philosophy are the same thing (so does in theosophy, I think). We are now living in a no-truth world. Truth cannot be authenticized now (such a naive era was gone, when thinkers struggled to proof the truth). Winchester wrote in his book: "Nietzsche's doctrine of necessary fictions, presented most prominently in Beyond Good and Evil, demonstrates that even if we live in a world devoid of truths, there still exist, Nietzsche believes, certain fictions without which we cannot live." (James J. Winchester, Nietzsche's aesthetic Turn: Reading Nietzsche after Heidegger, Deleuze, Derrida, State University of New York Press, Albany, N. Y, 1994, p. 7 ) And also he put: "When Deleuze labels Nietzsche a pluralist he means that, for Nietzsche, reality consists entirely of a plethora of unstable forces." (Ibid., p. 6) Mondrian also seek for the 'reality' and the 'truth', but not just in a naive way. He just can't. Because he was a practical painter and a very serious one. For him every important theoria should be realized on canvas, where there is no transcendental arguments - every entity of elements of composition is exposed in front of you. My argument about Mondrian's rationalist side is to show the limitation of the Hegelian's logical thoughts, which Mondrian (and Adorno) inherited. Hegelian's logical thinking is just an occurrence in the 'head.' This side was seviourly criticized by the other philosophers championed by Kierkegaard. Kierkegaard said that in Hegeliam logic there is no room for argument of "movement": it's just a "mirage." 'Rhythm' is a strange thing: It's half thought, half experience. Earlier stage of Neo-plasticism (1917-1927) Mondrian took the theory of 'rhythm' based on Hegelian's dichotomy - 'subjectivity' vs. 'objectivity', on which also many theosophical philosophers based in the beginning of this century, especially such a scholar as Schoenmaekers, by whom Mondrian got obviously influenced. In Mondrian Hegelian logicalism and Theosophist mysticism are interestingly mixed up. I think he sensed the limitation of the Hegelian logicalism (Mondrian thought rhythm is the property of the subject and the substratum of composition, and in the process of attaining the objective (or the universal) functions as an agent to attain equilibrated point, which was, in the earlier stage, (IT(Jstasis(IU(J). In Hegel 'absoluteness' and the 'universal' is the same thing and which is brought by 'judgement.' Within this 'judgement-universal' sphere rhythm is the epistemological evidence and not empirical one. Then Mondrian gradually elevated the status of rhythm as a role within the subjective, from the substratum of composition to the same level as composition, which organizes the elements of painting, such as lines, colour planes. Here my interest in Hinduism (and Theosophy), which you evoked me a lot, is that the theory of rhythm in Hinduism, I conjecture, is not limited to the epistemological evidence, but applicable to the empirical field. In order to attest this point, all you have to do is to listen Hindu music. A great deal of Hindu music is very rhythmic and exactly based on the theory called Raga. If Mondrian knew Yogic theory of rhythm like Bailey put it, it will be a very interesting story. The scenario is like this: Mondrian quit the theory of rhythm based on Hegelian logicalism, and in the process of his deepening Theosophical-Hindu thoughts accompanied by his experience as a practical painter, he constituted the theory in much empirical way, which is still based on some logic; this time Hinduism. I hope this scenario will work in a positive way. How do you think? > > You would not have seen the effort to abstraction in art without the > spiritualizing influence of those days. Spirituality was like a yeast in > the culture. Granted, some artists took that influence and turned it into > a more formal inquiry into the abstract princples of art making. > I know. That's why I cannot quit the occult line to argue the theory of visualized rhythm. Still, I want to say is that there is a danger to emphasize this line too much: it might blur the practical side of the artists. For example I do not believe that Kandinsky was still cling to his theory (which, for example, colour yellow means a cheering up sound of trumpet) even when yellow is sided by any other colour and differentiated by tone: He just thought of the combination and balance of each element of painting while he is painting. > >Here, it sounds becoming preaching style I stop here about this topic. > > It may be preachy in spoken language, but certainly not in the written > language. Preaching in the spoken language means there's an audience > forced to listen for hours but too polite to walk away. The written word > offers the reader a choice to take it or leave it without hurting anyone's > feeling. Am I boring you, yet? See, I can preach, too! My English is > better than yours. Watch out!!! > Definitely your English is better than mine, but you also should watch out: too much vocabulary and rhetoric might kill the clarity of the argument. Your throwing stone cannot kill two birds at the same time - a clumsy English speaking preacher birdie with a clear argument and a smart English speaking preacher birdie with a clear rhetoric. Clumsy talker sometimes enchants the listeners because of the contents. Anyway I always love your witty joke, Thoa. > >OK. My religious experiences are not theoretical ones, though. > > If not theoretical, what were they like? > Maybe mysticism. This answer makes a tautology, doesn't it? Okay, partner, the tennis ball is on your side, again!$B!!(J Eiichi From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:40:45 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Can you feel it? Message-ID: <28bca513.3492d6f3@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-13 08:53:56 EST, you write: > The harmonic >convergence came and went without much difference for me. Ah nostalgia! The day of the Harmonic Convergence we hooked up Saddam Hussein's picture to the radionic transmitter and played the F-15 game on the ancient Commodore computer. The next day he launched his first air strike against Iran in a couple years. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:52:03 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: As Above So Everywhere Message-ID: <0e52d0515190dc7UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> I have been reading an interesting book By Warren Keaton aka Ben Halvei which combines effectively (for me) astrology and kabbalah. The insight gained is that karma and the fates are not external mechanisms (so impersonal to HPB and her school) but have interpenetrating physical, mental, emotional,human and divine elements. Most tend to live out the group karma of the time, place, class, race, and country etc. of their origin. A few can change the way they deal with fate, karma, destiny by changing their perspective and approach to it. Thus one can be born blind and sink to helplessness or dependency or one can rise like Helen Keller by using these very problems. This has been often stated, but obviously it is very hard to do as the facticity (as Sartre called it) - the facts of our life have a stubborness that knows almost no bounds. Hellen Keller was interested in Emmanuel Swedenborg and responded to his esoteric type Christianity. This was not a cause, so much as evidence of her triumph over her fate of being disabled. I have recently, sychronicstically (and what isn't) been working around severely retarded young people (through no goodness on my on BTW). They are uninhibited in their humanity. They aren't socialized to not grab for attention and affection or react sometimes violently and very loudly to frustration. They seem to be able to change so little. Yet so many attend to them patiently and they seem to have an otherworldly peace at some times and an otherworldly pain, because they can't seem to reflect on, rationalize it the way we do. Here is one can see the limits of the "theosophical" and other mental approaches to "enlightenment". They seemed to be already enlightened, but imprisoned in the flesh without benefit of the hypocrisy of emotional control. They are strangely fightening, almost like demons one would expect to plauge one after death in the Bardos of the hungry demons. At other time they seem to in the rapt ecstasy of angels. Humanity is crucified on the tree of physical life, but can glimspe the higher worlds through meditation and practice usually of stilling the mind and senses that are really so valuable in everyday life (common sense can suggest nothing else!). To function in both world or a little in all the worlds as suggested by astrology, kabbalah and theosophy with is globes and planes is what the adept really does, isn't it? Namaste Keith Price From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:04:16 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Myth, Magic and the Movies Message-ID: <0e3a70815190dc7UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> The moving finger writes and having writ, moves on and all your grace and piety cannot stop it Nor all your tears erase one line - paraphrase of the RUBIYAT of Omar Kayam The Greeks and Romans of the classical world lived in a world of myth that seemed to surround some in a magical world, a kind of exalted virtual reality. One thinks of the gods entering the lives of the men of the ILLIAD etc. Today our art is more and more dependent of the "reality" of special effects to capture our attention, to make the myth as presented in movies important enough to stop our eveyday lives. Of interests to theosophist, I believe, is the little know Hollywood via England movie: PANDORA AND THE FLYING DUTCHMAN. If you are bored at the video stored, its worth looking for IMHO. Ava Gardner plays a love goddes LITERALLY. She is Pandora the woman of all-gifts who unleashed so much suffering Eve-like on the world and the last was HOPE. James Mason plays the lying dutchman who is doomed to haunt the world on a ghost ship until he can be released on his karma of killing is his wife for infidelity that didn't occur. The themes of karma, reincarnation, fate and the archetypal images of the anima and animus or skillfully included by being so subtle and almost undetectable to the mass audience, but yet is sinks into one's unconscious any way. The photography that suggest the surrealism of the day, glamour photography and the tarot (believe it or not) or worth the viewing alone. Does anyone remember this one? Namaste Keith PRice From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:26:19 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: RE: Modrian Message-ID: <0e6e43731190dc7UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> QUOTIING: In Hegel 'absoluteness' and the 'universal' is the same thing and which is brought by 'judgement.' Within this 'judgement-universal' sphere rhythm is the epistemological evidence and not empirical one. Then Mondrian gradually elevated the status of rhythm as a role within the subjective, from the substratum of composition to the same level as composition, which organizes the elements of painting, such as lines, colour planes. Here my interest in Hinduism (and Theosophy), which you evoked me a lot, is that the theory of rhythm in Hinduism, I conjecture, is not limited to the epistemological evidence, but applicable to the empirical field. In order to attest this point, all you have to do is to listen Hindu music. A great deal of Hindu music is very rhythmic and exactly based on the theory called Raga. Keith: I haven't been following this thread closely and I'm not sure I CAN. I guess this is what is known as a "serious" discussion of theosophy and art as opposed to our present popular music and movies. I will try to get in on this but I fear that so much of the de-constructionist activity of theosphically inspired modern art and brought us to the point where anything means eveything and nothing in a nihlistic swirling mess of symbols that don't attach to meaning or anything. The sex, drugs and rock and roll art of MTV is the result of a lot of Picasso, Kandinsky and Modrian type playing around - not that I'm against it. But in classical time art was supposed to introduce the order of the divine realms into eveyday life. If course art can sink to propaganda which is worse. Think of all the socialist realism. Oh, it's unfortunate (?) to live in interesting times the Chinese say. Check the thread later Keith From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:40:48 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Revolution Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214084048.006ffe30@mail.eden.com> At 02:07 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >I know I'm committing the sin of posting the same thing on two lists. >However, I just finished posting this to the theos-talk, when your post >popped up. I thought what I just wrote goes with your post. There are many who do not believe in sin. So it is ok to post in multiple lists. Is someone does not like them, the choice of hitting del key is always there. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:41:05 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Revolution Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214084105.007024d0@mail.eden.com> At 04:28 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Thoa Tran wrote: > >> I know I'm committing the sin of posting the same thing on two lists. > > Actually, that's not a sin at all; while there is overlapping membership on >the various theosophical lists, if you want to reach everybody, you need to post >the message on multiple lists. > > Bart Lidofsky > Thanks for your support. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:03:14 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Serious and Dangerous Topic Message-ID: <008490513200ec7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> I am almost afraid to bring this topic up for fear of either being accused of being involved or mad. But I think there is something behind the gang (called gansta in America) movement that really does reach into the occult worlds. The drug lords have wormed there way so deeply into the fabric of modern life that their influence extends from the filth and degredation of the drug user in the slum or prison to the very highest glamourous evil of Hollywood and Washington drug usage and prostitution. Also the gestures and symbolisms have a hypnotic quality that is more than "theatrical" it IS M A G I C K A L!!! How much and how many have sold out to the Mephistophelean lure of pleasure and fame. How many will say to this hour, "tarry a moment", I repent like Faust. Of course, you have the damage done by implanted memories of ritual child abuse, that is therapist have uncovered false memories of childhood "satanitc" abuse. Some adults have gone so far as to accuse their rather humdrum middle class parents of being witches and warlocks. The images come from modern movies and TV and not from repressed childhood experiences. Which brings us to the collusion, if not the conspiratorial effort of those in the rap music industry, pornography and viloent computer games in promoted the dark side. Beside Tipper Gore, is there anyone who knows what I am getting at?? Namaste Keith Price From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:13:19 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Serious and Dangerous Topic Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214151319.00bb4aa4@mail.eden.com> At 03:17 PM 12/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >I am almost afraid to bring this topic up for fear of either being accused >of being involved or mad. But I think there is something behind the gang >(called gansta in America) movement that really does reach into the occult >worlds. >>>>>> clip <<<<<<<<< >Namaste >Keith Price Yes, there is problem. The question is how we, you, and me and everyone else can help in whatever small way we can. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:59:45 -0500 From: Vincent Beall Subject: Re: Serious and Dangerous Topic Message-ID: <34943AB1.692D@dmv.com> KeithHouston wrote: > > I am almost afraid to bring this topic up for fear of either being accused > of being involved or mad. But I think there is something behind the gang > (called gansta in America) movement that really does reach into the occult > worlds. > > The drug lords have wormed there way so deeply into the fabric of modern > life that their influence extends from the filth and degredation of the drug > user in the slum or prison to the very highest glamourous evil of Hollywood > and Washington drug usage and prostitution. > > Also the gestures and symbolisms have a hypnotic quality that is more than > "theatrical" it IS M A G I C K A L!!! Not being a big fan of news, I really know nothing about this. Where might I see these gestures and symbolisms? Vincent -- vincent@dmv.com http://home.dmv.com/~vincent/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:30:12 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: An interesting info Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214153012.006967d8@mail.eden.com> In the TSA WWW, I visited the page dealing with Quest Magazine (which is also the official magazine replacing American Theosophist). I found the following statement in the webpage very interesting. I was looking for "Universal Brotherhood/Sisterhood/ Siblinghood" which is the primary mission of TS. Is TSA taking off in a new direction? mkr PS: Do you all remember the "inner aims" article that appeared sometime ago? ============================================ The Quest is published by the Theosophical Society in America, the American section of a worldwide organization promoting the comparative study of religion, philosophy, and science. We seek to explore the common ground between philosophies and religions, between East and West, between science and religion. While we are interested in exploring esoteric themes, articles themselves are accessible, not esoteric. Readers have told us we are "scholarly but not pedantic" and "a good balance of the philosophical and the practical." From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:45:26 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Ramalingam Swamy Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214184526.006967c4@mail.eden.com> I had posted msgs before regarding Ramalingam Swamy, who was one of the very few who was aware of the launching of TS years before even HPB was told of the plans. Also Ramalingam Swamy, when he shut down his Society which was based on Brotherhood, he specifically told his close associates that people from Russia and America will come and spread the same msg and then world would listen. Here is a quote of what HPB wrote about him. I was not able to verify the accuracy with the original publication. ================================================= HPB wrote a note in "Hints on Esoteric Theosophy" a summary of which is: He is an undoubted Mahatma, having lived doing extraordinary work fo rthe Universal Brotherhood with his indomitable desire to raise humanity to the spiritual height. His prophesy about the Universal Brotherhood in India to be established by the wise from Russia and America and the far North India is quite correct. In 1873 I got a command to go from Russia to Paris; in the June of the same year to the United States. I went to New York. It was during this time that the Mahatma was telling what would happen in the future. In 1874, I met Col. Olcott. In 1875 the Theosophical Society was started and in 1879 it was transferred to India. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:43:49 -0800 From: Mark Kusek Subject: Re: Mondrian Message-ID: <34948B46.E6D@withoutwalls.com> > Keith wrote: > > I haven't been following this thread closely and I'm not sure I CAN. > I guess this is what is known as a "serious" discussion of theosophy and art > as opposed to our present popular music and movies. I will try to get in on > this ... It's just a discussion, one of many. Tosaki is writing his PhD thesis on Mondrian's theory of rhythm in painting, so it tends to sometimes get pretty 'researchy' and scholarly. The fact that Mondrian was one of the most highly published artists of a theosophical bent has made for an interesting thread. > but I fear that so much of the de-constructionist activity of > theosphically inspired modern art has brought us to the point where anything > means eveything and nothing in a nihlistic swirling mess of symbols that > don't attach to meaning or anything. If anything can be a symbol for everything and nothing at the same time, then that's a pretty metaphysical place to be, no? I don't know that I agree with the nihilistic conclusion. That's definitely a negative pole of exploring the mechanics of meaning, sometimes you just don't know what the thing means and you have to suspend yourself for a while to absorb the new value on its own terms. It also allows us to come to grips with the ambiguities in our lives and have a means to express them. Then there is other fruit from the whole effort toward abstraction, like the ability to see the formal principles (line, color, shape, tone, etc - and their organizing principles, harmony, contrast, rhythm, etc) in their own right without external naturalistic referents. This has allowed us to evolve a visual vocabulary of emotion and thought that was unavailable and unpracticed before. It's sort of, in a certain sense, preparing us as a people, to begin to understand the natural language of some of the higher worlds. > The sex, drugs and rock and roll art > of MTV is the result of a lot of Picasso, Kandinsky and Modrian type playing > around - not that I'm against it. Neither am I. It's all about expression and communication. > But in classical times art was supposed to > introduce the order of the divine realms into eveyday life. Of course art > can sink to propaganda which is worse. Think of all the socialist realism. > Oh, it's unfortunate (?) to live in interesting times the Chinese say. It is an order. It's just a different kind of order. It's the one in which you have to be responsible to express how you really think and feel. It's like learning to drive, at some point the instructor puts you in the driver's seat and you have to take the reins yourself. Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:54:13 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theos-World Ramalingam Swamy Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214225413.00f932d8@mail.eden.com> At 06:44 PM 12/14/97 -0800, you wrote: > > >Ramadoss: >> Here is a quote of what HPB wrote about him. I was not able to >>verify the accuracy with the original publication. >> >>================================================= >> >>HPB wrote a note in "Hints on Esoteric Theosophy" a summary of which is: >> >>He is an undoubted Mahatma, having lived doing extraordinary work fo rthe >>Universal Brotherhood with his indomitable desire to raise humanity to the >>spiritual height. > >The "Hints" quotation by HPB is reproduced in BCW 4, 136-37. I also >checked the "Hints" booklet itself (pp. 130-31). All HPB wrote was that >Ramalinga was "in the counsels of those who ordered us to found the >Society." So his status was not clearly stated. > >Best, > >-- >Nicholas <> am455@lafn.org <> Los Angeles Thanks for verifying. The excerpt I posted was in a biography of Ramalingam Swamy. So it looks that the author embellished the material with no substantiation that Ramalingam Swamy was a Mahatma. He may have been one or not. mkr PS: Of late, there has been a renewed interest in his writings/compositions, especially in the less intellectual middle and lower class population. One of his messages was his plea for non killing (vegetarianism) and this seems to be one area where there have been much progress among those affected by his philosophy of this self-taught genius. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:02:24 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theos-World Ramalingam Swamy Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971214230224.00f93d5c@mail.eden.com> The center of all activities is in a small town in Vadalur in Tamil Nadu. It is there a "temple" he built. Annually there is a festival when thousands congregate to commemorate the founding of the temple. I know there are branches in most large cities in Tamil Nadu where lectures etc are being carried out. Someone in Madras City (Chennai) may be able to get more information. If I can be of further help, I will try to find out. I don't have any personal contact with anyone with the organization. mkr At 07:11 PM 12/14/97 PST, you wrote: >>From : Sophia TenBoreck > Dec. 15 '97 >To : N K Ramadoss > >Could you by any chance supply more information about Ramalingam Swamy >his biography, where in India his Society was located, and anything >more. Thank you. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-- THEOSOPHY WORLD -- Theosophical Talk -- theos-talk@theosophy.com > >Letters to the Editors, and discussion of theosophical ideas and >teachings. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send a message consisting of >"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:40:43 +1100 From: tosaki Subject: Re:Mondrian Message-ID: <349595DE.6FE0@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au> Dear Keith, I am grad you got interested in our artie talk. I also got very much interested in your writing. KeithHouston wrote: >Keith: I haven't been following this thread closely and I'm not sure I CAN. >I guess this is what is known as a "serious" discussion of theosophy and art >as opposed to our present popular music and movies. I will try to get in on >this but I fear that so much of the de-constructionist activity of >theosphically inspired modern art and brought us to the point where anything >means eveything and nothing in a nihlistic swirling mess of symbols that >don't attach to meaning or anything. The sex, drugs and rock and roll art >of MTV is the result of a lot of Picasso, Kandinsky and Modrian type >playing >around - not that I'm against it. But in classical time art was supposed to >introduce the order of the divine realms into eveyday life. If course art >can sink to propaganda which is worse. Think of all the socialist realism. > You say our 'serious' discussion is "opposed to our present popular music and movies." You mean our (Thoa's and my) attitude towards this topic is far more 'serious' than present people's attitude towards popular music and movies? Or the seriousness of the discussion between theosophy and art is in contrast to the 'unseriousness' of the present popular music and movies? I think you mean the latter. To be sure, our attitude towards popular music and so on cannot be said 'serious' one. However, when we feel 'flow' of rhythm and are absorbed into the music or movie, can you say we are not 'serious'? For example in Disco people are dancing merged into the flow of rhythm, almost lost themselves. In that way people can be open keeping 'seriousness' in themselves. I use 'seriousness' in the sense that people are aware of what they are doing. Mondrian himself was very famous for his partial to jazz and dancing. He himself was a very (IT(Jskillful(IU(J dancer (some of his friends describe his way of dancing was (IT(Junique(IU(J, though) and saw in jazz the ideal essence of modern life. He admired the open atmosphere of jazz club and even mentioned that in the new museum the jazz band should play in the exhibition site. To Mondrian art is upmost precious activity in human society (but still in progress) and should be closely connected to everyday life. He thought his own studio, which was his living world as well, as an extension of his canvas and decorated with the primary colour square plates. In this sense he was one of (IT(Javant-garde(IU(J artists who seek for the close connection between art and life. But still, as you pointed out, there are problems in that modern art itself has been taken as aloofness beyond everyday life. To this view art critics and institutionalized museum and gallery system must have a responsibility. Since the museum system was introduced in France, the beginning of 19 century, art works have become the objects which are exhibited in the museum or art gallery. The prevalence of the system can be said to have spurred the detachment of art from the living world. On the other hand the so-called European avant-garde artists in the early this century intended that, as art historian Peter B$B]S(Jger points out, (IR(Jart was not to be simply destroyed, but transferred to the praxis of life where it would be preserved, albeit in a changed form.(IS(J (Peter B$B]S(Jger, (IR(JTheory of the Avant-Garde, Manchester University Press, 1984, p. 49). If Art still remains (IT(Jhigh(IU(J art and aloof from our present everyday life, the attempts of avant-gardists can be said to have been failed. However, here (IT(Jfailure(IU(J was not caused by its linking to the popular culture, but, on the contrary, by the given position (mostly by the institution), of sanctuary, that is arena of (IT(Jart for art(IU(J. In this sense my interpretation of modern art seems to be different from yours. The responsibility for the (IT(Jfailure(IU(J cannot be assigned to the works of Picaso, Kandinsky, Mondrian, but to our attitude towards art. It is we ourselves, I believe, that give (IR(Jthe order of the divine realms (IS(J (if you want) to everyday life through art. I am not protecting the modern artists, but I want to say that unless we become aware of our prejudice towards art, art will remain institutionalized art. >Oh, it's unfortunate (?) to live in interesting times the Chinese say. > I cannot follow this. Who is the Chinese? Sincerely, Eiichi Tosaki From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:03:24 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: A Gesture is Worth a Thousand Words and Bullets Message-ID: <03cae48080510c7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> Also the gestures and symbolisms have a hypnotic quality that is more than > "theatrical" it IS M A G I C K A L!!! Not being a big fan of news, I really know nothing about this. Where might I see these gestures and symbolisms? Vincent Keith: If you want to see gestures just watch a rap video or a group of young people (adolescents) relating with the gang gestures such as the devil's horns (first and forth finger extended, the middle two retracted). Stan Tenon and others have done research suggesting that the Hebrew Alphabet and other sacred alphabets like the Egyptian and Sanskrit perhaps, used to be accompanined by gestures for each letter when in reciting in temple. Of course, the gangsters aren't speaking to us directly in English or any other spoken language and will not, certainly not on this or any other internet list. It is blood in and blood out, that is violent retribution for breaking the codes of silence. Mudras can arise spontanously when in samadhi or less exalted states. I have experienced the unconscious need to express gestures while meditating. So much of this may trully be on a lower occult plane of the Qlippoth spilling over thourgh posession of people's lower vehicles by demonic spirits that are trully behing this phenomenon to such an extent that no rational person seem to have the guts to talk about it for fear of being labeled a "kook". Namaste Keith Price From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:13:26 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Mondrian and Abstraction Message-ID: <08d3d03240510c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> Keith wrote: > > I haven't been following this thread closely and I'm not sure I CAN. > I guess this is what is known as a "serious" discussion of theosophy and art > as opposed to our present popular music and movies. I will try to get in on > this ... It's just a discussion, one of many. Tosaki is writing his PhD thesis on Mondrian's theory of rhythm in painting, so it tends to sometimes get pretty 'researchy' and scholarly. The fact that Mondrian was one of the most highly published artists of a theosophical bent has made for an interesting thread. > but I fear that so much of the de-constructionist activity of > theosphically inspired modern art has brought us to the point where anything > means eveything and nothing in a nihlistic swirling mess of symbols that > don't attach to meaning or anything. If anything can be a symbol for everything and nothing at the same time, then that's a pretty metaphysical place to be, no? I don't know that I agree with the nihilistic conclusion. That's definitely a negative pole of exploring the mechanics of meaning, sometimes you just don't know what the thing means and you have to suspend yourself for a while to absorb the new value on its own terms. It also allows us to come to grips with the ambiguities in our lives and have a means to express them. Then there is other fruit from the whole effort toward abstraction, like the ability to see the formal principles (line, color, shape, tone, etc - and their organizing principles, harmony, contrast, rhythm, etc) in their own right without external naturalistic referents. This has allowed us to evolve a visual vocabulary of emotion and thought that was unavailable and unpracticed before. It's sort of, in a certain sense, preparing us as a people, to begin to understand the natural language of some of the higher worlds. > The sex, drugs and rock and roll art > of MTV is the result of a lot of Picasso, Kandinsky and Modrian type playing > around - not that I'm against it. Neither am I. It's all about expression and communication. > But in classical times art was supposed to > introduce the order of the divine realms into eveyday life. Of course art > can sink to propaganda which is worse. Think of all the socialist realism. > Oh, it's unfortunate (?) to live in interesting times the Chinese say. It is an order. It's just a different kind of order. It's the one in which you have to be responsible to express how you really think and feel. It's like learning to drive, at some point the instructor puts you in the driver's seat and you have to take the reins yourself. Mark -------- Keith: I don't want to appear hostile because I visited your home page and like a lot of POST-modern work but I think it is time that we admit that if the emperor isn't totally nude, at least his fly is open! I mean this whole idea that one is a co-creator with an empty or horribly messy canvas a la Jackson Pollock may be provocative of a certain type of meditative state, but it depends of what one brings to it, doesn't it? I mean Da Vinici could have seen worlds in a Rosarch test, while most would see just ink blots. I think the post-modern movement back to neo-classical ehoes in art an architecture with a lot of humor thrown in, is a very health reaction to the dead end of giant ash trayes and sliced embalmed cows that are or were recently exhibited in one of England' most prestigious galleries to the chagrin (and some resignations) of some art scholars- see 60 MINUTES tv essay on this. Namaste Keith Price From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:41:35 -0800 (PST) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Thi-Kim Tran) Subject: Re: A Gesture is Worth a Thousand Words and Bullets Message-ID: >Keith: If you want to see gestures just watch a rap video or a group of >young people (adolescents) relating with the gang gestures such as the >devil's horns (first and forth finger extended, the middle two retracted). >Stan Tenon and others have done research suggesting that the Hebrew Alphabet >and other sacred alphabets like the Egyptian and Sanskrit perhaps, used to >be accompanined by gestures for each letter when in reciting in temple. Keith, I think there was too much symbolism read into their gesture. I used to live in Hawaii, and the Hawaiians used gestures similar to that (fourth and thumb extended, the rest retracted) as a form of greeting and saying everything's cool. Thoa :o) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Thi-Kim Tran) Subject: Re: Mondrian and Abstraction Message-ID: >Keith: I don't want to appear hostile because I visited your home page and >like a lot of POST-modern work but I think it is time that we admit that if >the emperor isn't totally nude, at least his fly is open! > >I mean this whole idea that one is a co-creator with an empty or horribly >messy canvas a la Jackson Pollock may be provocative of a certain type of >meditative state, but it depends of what one brings to it, doesn't it? I >mean Da Vinici could have seen worlds in a Rosarch test, while most would >see just ink blots. Perception of anything depends on one's knowledge and experience. I'm reading an old book analyzing the drawing of trees. The author went at length detailing the quality of the drawings between various early landscape artists, J.M.W. Turner, Corot, etc. The author also put down the Impressionists for their depiction of trees, saying that it is an abstraction and not a faithful rendition. Since I was trained in modern art, the early landscapes (Turner, Corot, etc.) all look very similar. In fact, when I'm in a museum, I usually walk by these paintings very quickly, thinking I've seen all there is to see, just trees. Meanwhile, a Monet will just mesmerize me. The best way to do a piece of art work justice is to try to get into the mind of the artist, to try to understand. Otherwise, one is really in no position to judge. For example, I did not quite understand the intuitive process of Pollock until I saw someone trying to imitate him at an art fair. The imitation was absolutely awful. The difference is suble but obvious. I sense the difference more through my intuition than through my mind. >I think the post-modern movement back to neo-classical ehoes in art an >architecture with a lot of humor thrown in, is a very health reaction to the >dead end of giant ash trayes and sliced embalmed cows that are or were >recently exhibited in one of England' most prestigious galleries to the >chagrin (and some resignations) of some art scholars- see 60 MINUTES tv >essay on this. I saw the 60 minutes program. I would agree with some judgment only because I was ignorant of those works. The works that I understood the reason for the result, I disagreed with 60 Minutes. In the sliced embalmed cows, I think you were referring to the clothing of flank steak that was allowed to become putrid. Opposition to using meat aside, can you not see that the artist was trying to bring you the visceral experience of decaying meat and temporary flesh, and connotations associated with that. It's strange seeing the inside flesh covering the outside flesh. I saw it in a museum, and it definitely left an impression. As an example of ignorance and knowledge in perception, before I knew about t/Theosophy, I thought theosophists were all kooks who think they are psychic, astrologists, etc. Well, now that I know more about t/Theosophy, it's true. :o) But I realize it's only true in some cases and I also discovered the underlying spiritualism behind them. I laugh now at how I used to be afraid of the metaphysical. I could go in more detail about art, etc., but I have to prepare for an exam. Thoa :o) P.S. Eiichi, it will take a whole lot more picking of my brain cells to respond to your post. I'm saving it for a time when I can give it undivided attention. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:10:16 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theosophy Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971216131016.01131824@mail.eden.com> At 04:11 AM 12/16/97 -0500, Thoa wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> clip <<<<<<<<<<<<<< >As an example of ignorance and knowledge in perception, before I knew about >t/Theosophy, I thought theosophists were all kooks who think they are >psychic, astrologists, etc. Well, now that I know more about t/Theosophy, >it's true. :o) But I realize it's only true in some cases and I also >discovered the underlying spiritualism behind them. I laugh now at how I >used to be afraid of the metaphysical. > >I could go in more detail about art, etc., but I have to prepare for an exam. > I think you rightly identified a problem plaguing Theosophy/Theosophists. A clear cut message precisely identifying the mission of theosophy and the range of "beliefs" theosophists can have is essential if the public misconceptions are to be set right. I recently identified this problem at the highest level based on the published material and have requested the matter be taken up at the next meeting of the BOD of TSA. I have also copied the info to Adyar. Hopefully someone will take time to diagnose the problem and try to do something before we attract selfish members interested in selfish activities. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:17:13 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Is Your CRT Flicerking? Message-ID: <0023419282010c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> I am told that some people can see CRT and some TV monitors flicker, that is blink quickly and irritatingly. I think it may have something to do with metabolism. I notices that an excess of some decongestants can cause an increase in the amount I notice the flicker. I am relating to this to my topic about what people notice and don't notice in the interpersonal communications we all deal in everyday. A few are very consciously atune to non-verbal communication such as gestures and what is now termed "body language". We are all UNCONSCIOUSLY affected by it. Everyone know a threatening posture or a seductive brush of the hair. However, I was talking about how some criminal subcultures engage in hidden communications through gesture, argot and vocabulary. For example the old term "wise guys" means he is a member of our criminal clan. I have tried to become aware of this without directly participating in it. I am sure the police keep up with the everchanging gang slang. Why should we care? I have suggested that this has become such a presense in our society that one cannot help but be contaminated by these thought forms. They invade our aura or what is now called our "space". They are evident in tatoos, gestures and even the hairline of current hairstyles to signal rank, I would suggest. Once on becomes a part of this, it is hard to not hear or see it to the point of needed to filter our the noise. That is why many wear special sun glasses and listen to boom boxes whenever "on the street". As one's frequency of response to the vibrations or frequency of external stimulit is increased one can see hidden gesture or "sign" language with ordinary gesture if one is a wise guy. I don't know if this is a fertile feed or a mine trap? As they say somethings are better left alone. Namaste Keith Pric From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:32:44 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Spanish K Maillist Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971217033244.00dfb2a4@mail.eden.com> Here is the info on spanish K maillist. mkr >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:07:07 +0100 >From: Dirk Lutzebaeck >Subject: Spanish speaking mailing list established A "K oriented" spanish speaking mailing list has been established by Carlos in Barcelona. To get more information about this list in spanish language please send the following mail: To: ac.mym@cww.de Subject: Info-Lista-K-espan~ol=SI Dirk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:29:33 EST From: JonKneb Subject: RE: Is Your CRT Flicerking? Message-ID: Whenever I am chanting "OM" while reading my mail, the CRT flickers. This is because the sound travels through my cheekbones and vibrates my eyeballs. Jon Knebel From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:56:51 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Article on Dalai Lama Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971218075651.00d6bb9c@mail.eden.com> In 12/22 issue of Time Magazine, there is a very informative and interesting article on Dalai Lama. The incident how he as a 2 year old toddler was discovered as the next Dalai Lama is fascinating. Some may find it interesting. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:41:04 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Is Your CRT Flicerking? Message-ID: In message , JonKneb writes >Whenever I am chanting "OM" while reading my mail, the CRT flickers. This is >because the sound travels through my cheekbones and vibrates my eyeballs. > >Jon Knebel Try a lower chakra! How about "YOM" for the heart? Alan :-) --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:13:10 -0800 From: Mark Kusek Subject: Re: Mondrian and Abstraction Message-ID: <349A3A9A.6623@withoutwalls.com> > Keith wrote: > > I don't want to appear hostile because I visited your home page and > like a lot of post-modern work, but I think it is time that we admit that if > the emperor isn't totally nude, at least his fly is open! I'm glad you visited my site, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. > I mean this whole idea that one is a co-creator with an empty or horribly > messy canvas a la Jackson Pollock may be provocative of a certain type of > meditative state, but it depends of what one brings to it, doesn't it? It seems so, both for the artist and the audience. Pollack brought a lot of psychology and a serious interest in shamanism to his work. He also was not acting in a vacuum. He had the support of other artists, thinkers, and critics who were in his circle at the time. His efforts are well documented and appreciated, but there are lots of other people who are just uncomfortable with emptiness or messiness in art as well as in life. Expressing ambiguity in art seems to be a strong theme in the art of the last half of this century. Maybe it just isn't to your personal taste. > I mean Da Vinici could have seen worlds in a Rorschach test, while most would > see just ink blots. Some people are more literal than others I guess. Lots of folks see all kinds of stuff in ink blots, clouds, shadows on the wall, etc. I'm still not sure what your point is. Are you saying that you feel like you're sometimes being hoodwinked by the uncertainty of intent in works of late- or post-modern art? > I think the post-modern movement back to neo-classical echoes in art and > architecture with a lot of humor thrown in, is a very healthy reaction to the > dead end of giant ash trays and sliced embalmed cows that are or were > recently exhibited in one of England' most prestigious galleries to the > chagrin (and some resignations) of some art scholars - see 60 MINUTES tv > essay on this. I didn't see the 60 minutes thing so I can't speak to it. When you mention giant ashtrays, are you talking about work by Claus Oldenberg? Why do you think that it is a dead end? How do you understand it? In any event, art appreciation is entirely subjective. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion and I support your right to it. Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:28:42 -0800 From: Mark Kusek Subject: selfishness Message-ID: <349A3032.4D35@withoutwalls.com> > Dallas wrote: > > It is man, with his mind and sense of self to be > preserved which forms what is called the "ego" -- the lower, selfish self. > and this seeks to perpetuate itself and what it considers its ease at all > costs. Maybe I misunderstand you, but ... I would argue that it is evolution that causes man, "ego" and any apparent conflicts, not man himself. "Humanity" as a kingdom, with all of the attendant 'difficulties' is part and parcel of the great plan. In the course of normal human development, selfishness is supposed to happen. Nobody is to be blamed for it. Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:58:02 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Setting your own website Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971219075802.01524ba8@mail.eden.com> Hi Here comes the new trend. It is going to be very easy to setup your own website and maintain it. Some of you may be interested. mkr ============================================== Natural Born Killer: e.go, a Web Site in a Box URL: http://www.anchordesk/story/story_1556.html Berst Alert Jesse Berst, Editorial Director
ZDNet AnchorDesk Friday, December 19, 1997 Ever seen a Chia pet? You know, those weird little pottery creatures that you water. And they sprout? Well, I have seen the Chia pet of Web servers. Encanto Network √ the company fronted by ex-Novell CEO Robert Frankenberg √ is about to roll out e.go, a just-add-water solution for anyone who wants to host a Web site. Whether or not they know Java from JPEG. For a thousand dollars you get everything you need to host your own site. And for a couple hundred more, you can start your own Web store. For those of you new to AnchorDesk, "Natural Born Killers" is an occasional series where I highlight technologies with killer potential. These articles are not an endorsement or a recommendation to buy (I don't have time to be a one-man testing lab). Rather, they alert you to products with the "genes" to be great, products with the germ of an important idea. And the Web server-in-a-box is certainly a significant concept. A super-simple, super-cheap, soup-to-nuts e-commerce Web solution is perfect for small businesses (and small businesses-to-be) that need a Web site. But can▓t afford $30,000 for design. $300 a month for off-site hosting. And $50,000 a year for a Webmaster. Products like Encanto▓s e.go --slated to ship early next year -- will build your site, secure your Internet address, set up your email accounts, establish security access, and let you make changes whenever you want. A couple of cautionary notes. As positive as we are about this concept, and as much as we like the e.go product, you need to be careful. You don▓t want to get stuck in the easy-to-get-started but hard-to-grow space. As you evaluate this trend, look for products (and companies) that can scale up. If your site is as successful as you hope, you don▓t want to throw your first Web site out and start over from scratch just to grow. Now help us out here. What do you think is the easiest way to get started on the Web? What▓s the biggest mistake a new Web site can make? Scroll to the bottom of this page and send me a Talk Back message. I▓ll post some of the best responses beneath this column. There are other products also headed down the just-add-water Web server path. Regardless of which version of this concept makes it -- and we think e.go has as good a shot as any -- we applaud the concept and think you should take a hard look at it. You don't have to be an expert gardener to grow a Chia pet. And soon you won't have to be a Webmaster to sprout a site. READ MORE: Encanto Rolls Out Sub-$1000 Server - ZDNN http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/1212/262583.html EVALUATE: Ultimate Web Server Resource - ZDNet Products Channel http://www.zdnet.com/products/webserveruser.html TECH TIPS: Web-Serving Secrets of the Masters - ZDNet AnchorDesk http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_647.html LEARN HOW: Five-Minute Web Server - ZDNet Products Channel http://www.zdnet.com/products/garage/server/ Build a Small Business Web Site (Intro to HTML) - ZDNet University http://www.zdu.com/zdu/catalog/opendetail4375.htm DISCUSS: Jesse's Berst Alerts http:///www.anchordesk.com/disgroups/disgroups_54.html COMPANIES: Encanto Networks http://www.anchordesk.com/company/company_3947.html PRODUCTS: e.go http://www.anchordesk.com/products/products_2306.html TOPICS: Internet http://www.anchordesk.com/topics/topics_18.html PEOPLE: Robert Frankenberg http://www.anchordesk.com/people/people_27.html From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:40:20 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971219174020.0144a544@mail.eden.com> The company which is ushering the all in one web server is soon going after home market. Here is a part of a report in the news. ================= Frankenberg said the box will sell for ''well under $2,000'' at its expected introduction later this year, and he said buyers now using a Web service bureau would cover the purchase cost within 18 months through lower monthly access fees. Encanto plans to introduce a scaled-down box next year, priced in the $300 to $400 range, for families and volunteer organizations that want to control their own Web sites but don't require as many features as a small business. =================================== MKR: What this means is that everyone of us can set up our own home page and every one is going have their own website. Look for action in 1998. ..........MKRamadoss From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:14:07 -0500 From: Vincent Beall Subject: Re: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: <349B1BDE.5552@dmv.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > > The company which is ushering the all in one web server is soon going after > home market. Here is a part of a report in the news. > > ================= > > Frankenberg said the box will sell for ''well under $2,000'' at its expected > introduction later this year, and he said buyers now using a Web service > bureau would cover the purchase cost within 18 months through lower > monthly access fees. > > Encanto plans to introduce a scaled-down box next year, priced in the $300 to > $400 range, for families and volunteer organizations that want to control > their own Web sites but don't require as many features as a small business. > > =================================== > > MKR: > What this means is that everyone of us can set up our own home page and > every one is going have their own website. Look for action in 1998. > > ..........MKRamadoss Doss, I believe that you can find tools on the net for authouring your own webpages, and Geocities or Fortunecity will host your pages at no charge. I built my pages with Frontpage'97, and my IP provides 3 mb space at no extra charge. Am I missing something about this new service that you are telling us about? Vincent -- vincent@dmv.com http://home.dmv.com/~vincent/ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 02:25:06 +0000 From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" Subject: Re: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: In message <349B1BDE.5552@dmv.com>, Vincent Beall writes >Doss, I believe that you can find tools on the net for authouring your >own webpages, and Geocities or Fortunecity will host your pages at no >charge. I built my pages with Frontpage'97, and my IP provides 3 mb >space at no extra charge. > >Am I missing something about this new service that you are telling us >about? Well now, with a little effort and research it's easy and it's free. Download an HTML web page and send it to a text file, and you will see all the necessary commands for that page right there in plain ASCII. All web pages are written in ASCII using relatively simple codes. Try dowloading the front page of the website below, and copy the script for the new ticker to the clipboard. Then download your own front page, send it to ASCII (like Notepad) and past in the script you just copied. FTP it to your own front page and bingo! You got it, clock and all! Some Word Processors offer web page construction, e.g., Wordperfect 7.0 - so there is probably no need for many of us to buy a special 'web construction' program at all. Alan --------- THEOSOPHY INTERNATIONAL: Working for a New Age: http://www.nellie2.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: TI@nellie2.demon.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:11:33 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971219211133.00fc60a8@mail.eden.com> At 08:15 PM 12/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >M K Ramadoss wrote: >> >> The company which is ushering the all in one web server is soon going after >> home market. Here is a part of a report in the news. >> >> ================= >> >> Frankenberg said the box will sell for ''well under $2,000'' at its expected >> introduction later this year, and he said buyers now using a Web service >> bureau would cover the purchase cost within 18 months through lower >> monthly access fees. >> >> Encanto plans to introduce a scaled-down box next year, priced in the $300 to >> $400 range, for families and volunteer organizations that want to control >> their own Web sites but don't require as many features as a small business. >> >> =================================== >> >> MKR: >> What this means is that everyone of us can set up our own home page and >> every one is going have their own website. Look for action in 1998. >> >> ..........MKRamadoss > >Doss, I believe that you can find tools on the net for authouring your >own webpages, and Geocities or Fortunecity will host your pages at no >charge. I built my pages with Frontpage'97, and my IP provides 3 mb >space at no extra charge. > >Am I missing something about this new service that you are telling us >about? > >Vincent This is a hardware based approach. It is a piece of hardware you attach to your system and hence would enable you to have large database to be put on the web. Firstly they are targeting small businesses. Also with this hardware, small businesses with a couple of 100 dollars can set up to do electronic commerce on line. This is the first venture and will have to see how this whole niche is going to evolve. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:13:04 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971219211304.007311d4@mail.eden.com> At 09:33 PM 12/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >In message <349B1BDE.5552@dmv.com>, Vincent Beall > writes >>Doss, I believe that you can find tools on the net for authouring your >>own webpages, and Geocities or Fortunecity will host your pages at no >>charge. I built my pages with Frontpage'97, and my IP provides 3 mb >>space at no extra charge. >> >>Am I missing something about this new service that you are telling us >>about? > >Well now, with a little effort and research it's easy and it's free. >Download an HTML web page and send it to a text file, and you will >see all the necessary commands for that page right there in plain ASCII. >All web pages are written in ASCII using relatively simple codes. > >Try dowloading the front page of the website below, and copy the >script for the new ticker to the clipboard. Then download your own >front page, send it to ASCII (like Notepad) and past in the script you >just copied. FTP it to your own front page and bingo! You got it, >clock and all! > >Some Word Processors offer web page construction, e.g., >Wordperfect 7.0 - so there is probably no need for many of us to buy a >special 'web construction' program at all. > >Alan Thanks for explaining the mechanics. Please also see my msg to Vincent. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:23:35 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Women Leaders in Buddhism Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971219212335.01623868@mail.eden.com> Here is some interesting info. The URL is also very interesting. mkr >Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 21:39:28 GMT >From: editor@juno.com (Bruce Morgen) >Subject: Early Women Masters In alt.zen+budo, whitwrth@is2.nyu.edu (Sarah Whitworth) wrote: >For anyone interested in the writings of early Buddhist, Taoist or Zen >women masters please see: > > EARLY WOMEN MASTERS in Buddhism, Taoism & Zen > http://pages.nyu.edu/~whitwrth/RaihaiWomen.html > > Includes texts and introductions to > The First Buddhist Women: Poems from the THERIGATHA > Poems of Zen-Taoist IMMORTAL SISTERS > Women Zen Masters in the RAIHAI TOKUZUI > by Zen Master Dogen (1200-1253) > The Eastern Tradition of KUAN YIN > The Tibetan Goddess TARA > >Sarah Whitworth (whitwrth@is2.nyu.edu) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 00:11:24 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: <349B537B.5387F23@sprynet.com> Dr. A.M.Bain wrote: > Some Word Processors offer web page construction, e.g., > Wordperfect 7.0 - so there is probably no need for many of us to buy a > special 'web construction' program at all. Most of the best web page designers I know, when asked what tool they use, usually reply "NOTEPAD", or something similar (I use Winedit). Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 00:19:50 -0600 From: JRC Subject: Re: Common man/woman's WWW Message-ID: <199712200721.AAA17168@umt.umt.edu> > Most of the best web page designers I know, when asked what tool they >use, usually reply "NOTEPAD", or something similar (I use Winedit). > Bart Lidofsky I'd have to agree - I use the most basic of text editors ... notepad when I'm writing code on a Win95 and SimpleText when I'm using a Mac. There are now literally hundreds of programs that advertise themselves as "easy" web design programs ... but there is simply no replacement for actually learning the markup language, and to do anything other than the most basic of stuff requires CGI scripting, Java, DHTML, some graphics programs, even audio/visual creators/editors - as well as an understanding of how different browsers (and different versions of each of them) interpret what one has written, an understanding of Unix or NT or Sun's OS (or whatever the ISP's box runs) if one wants to run Perl or Tcl for the CGI work, etc., etc. The best sites on the web often appear quite simple and clear - but achieving that simplicity and clarity is an extremely complex process ... the art of harmonizing design with content, of being exciting while still writing code tight enough that it won't take 5 minutes to download the first page - and that doesn't even begin to cover the continual updating that is necessary, the knowledge of how the various search engines' robots will record the site when it is submitted ... well, anyway, I guess it always sounds odd to me to hear that its "easy" to put up a website - it *is* easy to *produce* a personal page - and have it sit (like hundreds of thousands of them already do) with perhaps a couple of hits a week - to produce (as has been mentioned here) a full bore commercial site with a firm's entire ordering catalog online, etc., etc ... well if it *is* done for a couple of hundred bucks, its likely to be utterly useless. -JRC From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 17:07:05 -0600 From: "KeithHouston" Subject: Art and Abstraction and Beauty Message-ID: <0316629122314c7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> I didn't see the 60 minutes thing so I can't speak to it. When you mention giant ashtrays, are you talking about work by Claus Oldenberg? Why do you think that it is a dead end? How do you understand it? In any event, art appreciation is entirely subjective. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion and I support your right to it. Mark -------- WITHOUT WALLS: An Internet Art Space http://www.withoutwalls.com E-mail: mark@withoutwalls.com Keith Price: I think all the experimental, non-representational art that makes news has to be stranger and stanger, a kind of Andy Warhol joke at the audience, not with it. I think there is a lot of interesting art that addresses spiritual issues around. I think the QUEST magazine makes a valuable forum for art that opens into a higher world of bliss and beauty. Of course, not all modern art is bad, but we are subjected to such ugliness sometimes and made to feel like Philistines or bumkins if we don't appreciate it. I am thinking about a lot over scale art in from of our buildings in Houston. They are psuedo-Calder-Miro-ish papier mache atrocities on a grand scale. I didn't want to search it for meaning. It was repulsive. The neo-classical and neo-gothic office towers gave me a since of peace and serenity. Of course, art is THE SHOCK OF THE NEW, but I for one am a little burned out. Namste Keith PRice From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 05:22:18 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Isis Unveiled - Abridgement by Gomes Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971221052218.0075c294@mail.eden.com> Anymore further feedback on the book or anything heard on the grapevine? mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 05:51:55 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Vegetarianism Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971221055155.0075be00@mail.eden.com> At a time of peace and goodwill to all living beings, I saw a wonderful writeup on Vegetarianism by David Lane at the following URL. Some may enjoy visiting it. http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dlane/ve.html mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:35:02 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Theosophy Resources Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971221153502.00f85538@mail.eden.com> At a time when Internet is breaking down the walls between various Theosophical Organizations around the world, the Theosophical Resources project is a laudable one and can bring about a level of cooperation among grass roots level never before seen while the elected or appointed leaders are content with the way things are and have been for a long time. I think everyone who has Theosophy at their heart of hearts will support the endeavour. mkr ===================== Following was taken from theos world.: THEOSOPHICAL RESOURCES ANNOUNCEMENT by Wesley Amerman I would like to announce the formation of Theosophical Resources, a new project intended to expand opportunities for creative work for theosophy. It will be an independent network of people who agree to share ideas, information, experience, training methods and learning resources in theosophic service. By reaching out, individuals can assist on another and discover within themselves and others the hidden human resources needed for the future of the theosophical movement. Theosophical Resources is dedicated to be a clearing house for practical ideas rather than doctrines, and will be available to help anyone contact others with similar interests, without regard for formal theosophical or other affiliation. This is a proposal to create a network of shared resources in the service of theosophy, to be free and open to all to contribute ideas, offer and ask for assistance, share experience and associate with others. For lack of a better name (and perhaps because it is a descriptive one), it shall be known as Theosophical Resources. The stated Objectives of Theosophical Resources are: 1. To provide study, research, promulgation, teaching and learning resources for students. 2. To identify opportunities for work, study and service within the theosophical movement. 3. To serve as a clearing house of ideas, information and practical knowledge. The means for spreading this work will be as varied as the individual contributions made to it. Suggestions made thus far have included: the creation of a Student Resource Directory, a preliminary list of projects, an Internet web site to post news and events, a printed and/or electronic newsletter, develop and hold training, teaching and education courses, conferences and workshops for theosophists and for the public, suggest resources to help groups with their own and joint projects, help to coordinate "service learning" opportunities, the study and promulgation of new teaching methods for reaching the public, From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:09:34 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: 3rd Symposium on SD and HPB Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971222130934.00b7d3d0@mail.eden.com> I just received by snailmail an announcement of the 3rd Symposium on SD and HPB scheduled to be held in OK City on May 21-24, 1998. I will post an extract from the announcement later today. Info on the sympsium can be found at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/astrycker/ Also the contact person Arden Strycker can be contacted by e-mail at astrycker@compuserve.com. The snailmail contact is: Secret Doctrine Symposium 100 SE 9th Street -- Suite 902 Topeka KS 66612 Phone contact is: Nancy Blott 785-235-2801 I am copying this msg to Arden Strycker so that as and when updates are becoming available, Internet e-mail can be taken advantage of by posting the updates at theos-news, theos-l, ti-l, theos-talk. Arden may want to subscribe to theos-news, theos-l, ti-l by sending a e-mail to LISTSERV@VNET.NET with a message subscribe theos-??? Arden Strycker and subscribe to theos-talk by sending a msg with subscribe to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. Arden may also want to provide more information on the sponsors they are looking for and also more details of who is presiding and who is going to review and accept or reject the articles submitted fo the Symposium. M K Ramadoss From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:09:34 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: 3rd Symposium on SD and HPB Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971222130934.00b7d3d0@mail.eden.com> I just received by snailmail an announcement of the 3rd Symposium on SD and HPB scheduled to be held in OK City on May 21-24, 1998. I will post an extract from the announcement later today. Info on the sympsium can be found at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/astrycker/ Also the contact person Arden Strycker can be contacted by e-mail at astrycker@compuserve.com. The snailmail contact is: Secret Doctrine Symposium 100 SE 9th Street -- Suite 902 Topeka KS 66612 Phone contact is: Nancy Blott 785-235-2801 I am copying this msg to Arden Strycker so that as and when updates are becoming available, Internet e-mail can be taken advantage of by posting the updates at theos-news, theos-l, ti-l, theos-talk. Arden may want to subscribe to theos-news, theos-l, ti-l by sending a e-mail to LISTSERV@VNET.NET with a message subscribe theos-??? Arden Strycker and subscribe to theos-talk by sending a msg with subscribe to theos-talk-request@theosophy.com. Arden may also want to provide more information on the sponsors they are looking for and also more details of who is presiding and who is going to review and accept or reject the articles submitted fo the Symposium. M K Ramadoss From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:00:45 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: URL Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971223090045.00786004@mail.eden.com> Hi I visited your URL and you have done a wonderful job. Please put me on your e-mail list and send me updates as and when they become available. Hope you have received the copy of the msg I posted to theos-l, theos-news, ti-l and theos-talk maillists. With worldwide audience in these maillists, I hope you will get excellent responses from many knowledgeable scholars and others interested in SD and HPB. Also the maillists cuts across all organizational lines and hence it is a unifying medium for all Theosophists no matter what their personal preferences and beliefs are. Hope to hear from you soon. M K Ramadoss PS: I am copying this to the maillists also. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:36:18 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Original Inner Group Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971223203618.006967dc@mail.eden.com> The original Inner Group formed by HPB consisted of twelve men and women. Has anyone seen in HPB's Collected Writings or other writings as to what kinds of lifestyle restrictions -- vegetarian food, no use of fur or leather, abstinence from alcohol etc were imposed on the twelve. MKR PS: I do not have access to HPB's CW. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:01:31 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Original Inner Group Message-ID: In a message dated 97-12-23 21:41:54 EST, you write: >The original Inner Group formed by HPB consisted of twelve men and women. >Has anyone seen in HPB's Collected Writings or other writings as to what >kinds of lifestyle restrictions -- vegetarian food, no use of fur or >leather, abstinence from alcohol etc were imposed on the twelve. > >MKR > >PS: I do not have access to HPB's CW. > > To the best of my knowledge, there were no restrictions whatsoever. And, considering that neither HPB nor the Colonel were vegetarians, it is doubtful that that was required. As far as fur or leather or concerned, unless they wanted to freeze to death buck naked at that time, such requirements would have been out of the question. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:09:24 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Original Inner Group Message-ID: <34A07CE4.3E0A794C@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > The original Inner Group formed by HPB consisted of twelve men and women. > Has anyone seen in HPB's Collected Writings or other writings as to what > kinds of lifestyle restrictions -- vegetarian food, no use of fur or > leather, abstinence from alcohol etc were imposed on the twelve. The inner circle was asked to refrain from eating meat, but they were neither required to be vegetarian, nor was a purely vegetarian diet even suggested; a diet of fish and vegetables was recommended. I recall reading nothing about fur or leather (remember, back then there really weren't viable substitutes). Alcohol was prohibited, but moderate use of tobacco was allowed. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:05:28 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Original Inner Group Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971223230528.00e09be0@mail.eden.com> At 10:18 PM 12/23/1997 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-23 you write: > >>The original Inner Group formed by HPB consisted of twelve men and women. >>Has anyone seen in HPB's Collected Writings or other writings as to what >>kinds of lifestyle restrictions -- vegetarian food, no use of fur or >>leather, abstinence from alcohol etc were imposed on the twelve. >> >>MKR >> >>PS: I do not have access to HPB's CW. >> >> > >To the best of my knowledge, there were no restrictions whatsoever. And, >considering that neither HPB nor the Colonel were vegetarians, it is doubtful >that that was required. >As far as fur or leather or concerned, unless they wanted to freeze to death >buck naked at that time, such requirements would have been out of the >question. > >Chuck the Heretic > >The inner circle was asked to refrain from eating meat, but they were neither required to be vegetarian, nor was a purely vegetarian diet even suggested; a diet of fish and vegetables was recommended. I recall reading nothing about fur or leather (remember, back then there really weren't viable substitutes). Alcohol was prohibited, but moderate use of tobacco was allowed. Bart Lidofsky MKR Replies: Thanks for the responses. This question came up when I was reading a quote from Practical Occultism. One of the key statements was the key emphasis on the need to approach life with the best interests of Humanity. On the other hand, after Annie Besant took over the ES, there was a strict emphasis on vegetarianism etc. The simple question was why HPB did not seek a very strict regimen from her close followers. Was she wrong? These are questions that may be worth looking into from a historical perspective. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 07:17:51 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Power of Internet Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971224071751.006967a0@mail.eden.com> I just read the following in a e-mail msg I received: Earlier this month, AnchorDesk passed the 1,000,000 subscriber mark. (At last count, 1,139,654, to be precise. This is a maillist for computer enthusiasts. The size of the subscribers shows the potential of Internet e-mail. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:56:34 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: Re: Original Inner Group Message-ID: <4dcb0bd.34a13ec4@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-24 00:15:34 EST, you write: >The simple question was why HPB did not seek >a very strict regimen from her close followers. Was she wrong? > > Easy answer. HPB was really in touch with the Masters whereas Annie was only in touch with them in her fevered imagination. HPB was right, Mrs. Besant was crazy. Chuck the Heretic From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:48:43 -0500 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Original Inner Group Message-ID: <34A14AFB.3656C48B@sprynet.com> M K Ramadoss wrote: > This question came up when I was reading a quote from Practical Occultism. > One of the key statements was the key emphasis on the need to approach life > with the best interests of Humanity. > > On the other hand, after Annie Besant took over the ES, there was a strict > emphasis on vegetarianism etc. The simple question was why HPB did not seek > a very strict regimen from her close followers. Was she wrong? Consider what the E.S. was when Blavatsky ran it, and what it was when Besant ran it. The E.S. was originally a way for members to prepare for esoteric (magical) practice. It was formed partially at the behest of the Mahatmas (I don't recall the letter number, but it was in regard to the objections of Anna Kinsgsford teaching Theosophy via Christian concepts and symbols), who said that those who wished to follow the Mahatamas directly should form their own, independent section. Besant, when she took over, turned it more into a religious group, with the new embodiment of the "Christ" (aka the "World Teacher", aka J. Krishnamurti) as the spiritual head. When Krishnamurti said that he was not the World Teacher, nor was meant to be, Besant shut down the E.S. Later, at the behest of members, she brought it back in its present state. Bart Lidofsky From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:48:31 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: 3rd Symposium on Secret Doctrine Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971225054831.00705d7c@mail.eden.com> THIRD SYMPOSIUM on THE SECRET DOCTRINE and H. P. BLAVATSKY May 21 to 24, 1998 Saint Francis de Sales ARCHDIOCESE PASTORAL CENTER 7501 NW Expressway Oklahoma City, OK 73123 CALL FOR PAPERS -------------------------------------- The year of 1998 is the 110th anniversary of the publication of H. P. Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine (S.D.), which was published in 1888. We will honor the occasion with the third symposium in the U.S. on S.D. in recent years. H.P.B.'s intention in her source book of esoteric philosophy was to bring to the highest minds a far-reaching vision and cutting-edge understanding of our universe and our own humanity. This symposium is being organized to further this vision. The first symposium was held in San Diego, July 21-22, 1984. There were 17 papers from 4 countries. The proceedings were published as the Symposium on HPB's Secret Doctrine, Wizards Bookshelf, San Diego, 1984. The second symposium was called "Secret Doctrine Centenary." It was held October 29-30, 1988, in Pasadena, California. The Report of Proceedings was published by The Theosophical Society, Pasadena, California, U.S.A. SYMPOSIUM NEWSLETTER Periodically a newsletter will be sent out to participants and supporters of the symposium. The newsletter will provide timely information about the symposium prior to next May. Those interested in receiving the newsletter are encouraged to request it in the attached response form. VENUE AND ACCOMMODATIONS This symposium will be held at the beautiful Saint Francis Pastoral Center, Oklahoma City. Details for food and lodging will be made available in the meeting announcement to be distributed early in 1998. This announcement will include a preliminary program and a call for registration. WEB PAGE Stay current on symposium activities by visiting our web page! http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/astrycker/ CALL FOR PAPERS We invite participation by all serious students of the S.D. who are interested in or involved in theosophic work federation wide, nationwide, or worldwide. For those interested in submitting one or more papers, please: 1) Submit (by January 31, 1998) a proposal by mentioning a title, a brief synopsis, and a draft outline. 2) Send in (by May 1, 1998) the final written paper for publication. A committee will review those titles submitted by January 31 and make a selection for those to be presented at the conference. It is expected that there will be more papers than time to deliver all of them orally. In choosing those to be read, we will try to keep an overall balance of topics on the S.D. However, all papers submitted that are considered relevant to the conference will be included in the proceedings. The papers in the proceedings will not be limited to those presented at the conference. A copy of the proceedings will be available at the conference (cost will be extra). Ceremonial addresses will be reduced to a minimum to accommodate as many oral deliveries as possible. Brief comments will be permitted for each presentation. VOLUNTEERS In addition to authors and conference attendees, we also need volunteers and sponsors. Registration costs will be kept low to encourage participation (ca. $35), and therefore, financial support from sponsors to defray mailing costs, etc., will be gratefully accepted. Those unable to help financially, may be able to assist in other ways. TELL US HOW YOU CAN HELP! -------------------------------- SOME SUGGESTED TOPICS OR TITLES FOR PAPERS 1. Science and The Secret Doctrine 2. Religion or Spirituality and The Secret Doctrine 3. Philosophy and The Secret Doctrine 4. Chaos, Order or Beauty, and The Secret Doctrine 5. Cyclicity or Periodicity 6. Unity, Polarity, Diversity 7. Motion, Mind, and Matter 8. No-God, Gods, and Goddesses 9. The Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma Letters 10. The Self and Not-the-Self or Not-a-true-self 11. The Real, Virtual Reality, and the Unreal 12. Globes, Chains, Rounds, and Root Races 13. Involution, Evolution, and Resolution 14. Teachings: Exoteric, Mesoteric, and Esoteric 15. Reunion & Realization-Revelation & Reason 16. How The Secret Doctrine Came About 17. Where is the rest of The Secret Doctrine? 18. Key Technical Terms to The Secret Doctrine 19. Secret Doctrine and World Myths, Legends, and Fables 20. Truth, Theosophy, and Theology 21. Chelaship to Adeptship 22. Disciplines: Discipleship to Discoveries 23. Awareness to Awakenings 24. Cosmic and Human Consciousness 25. Space, Time, and Eternity 26. Root Races, Subraces, and Branch Races 27. Physical and Superphysical Realities 28. Monads and the Kingdoms of Nature 29. Number: Measure to Metaphysical Metaphors 30. Mudra, Chakra, Mantra, Sutra 31. Yantra, Tantra, Vajra 32. Etcetera, N-cetera TITLES OF SOME OF THE PAPERS PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED "Science and the Secret Doctrine," W. D. McDavid. "The Hidden Deity in World Religions," Vic R. Hao-Chin, Jr. "Light the Dzyan: Kala Chakra," David Reigle. "Science in Myths," Elsa-Brita Titchenell. "Secret Doctrine in Braille Projects," Dennis Gottschalk. "Caves of India," James A. Santucci. "Six Propositions of the Secret Doctrine," John P. Van Mater "An Invitation to the Secret Doctrine," Grace F. Knoche. "The Secret Doctrine and its Cultural Impact," Manuel Oderberg. "The Writing and Publication of the Secret Doctrine," unknown. -many others- MIDWEST FEDERATION, TSA Nancy Blott, President 100 SE 9th-Suite 902 Topeka, KS 66612 785-235-280 1 THIRD SECRET DOCTRINE SYMPOSIUM Oklahoma City, May 21-24, 1998 SECRET DOCTRINE RESPONSE CHECK SHEET Please check all that apply: __ I would like to submit a paper (enclose title and summary). Submit no later than January 31, 1998. __ I would like to attend the symposium. (Put me on the mailing list for the next conference announcement.) __ I would like to receive the newsletter. __ I would like to help with the symposium (indicate areas of specific interest). __ I would like to become a sponsor (enclose financial support). __ I cannot participate, but will provide good thoughts. Name: Address: City, State & ZIP: Phone: Email: Fax: Please return via postal mail to: Secret Doctrine Symposium 100 SE 9th-Suite 902 Topeka, KS 66612 or via email to: astrycker@compuserve.com Do you have any comments or suggestions? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:16:36 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Original Inner Group Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971224121636.00b79344@mail.eden.com> At 12:02 PM 12/24/1997 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-24 00:15:34 EST, you write: > >>The simple question was why HPB did not seek >>a very strict regimen from her close followers. Was she wrong? >> >> > >Easy answer. HPB was really in touch with the Masters whereas Annie was only >in touch with them in her fevered imagination. HPB was right, Mrs. Besant was >crazy. > >Chuck the Heretic In one of the letters to APS from I believe Master KH, there was a comment that if they were looking for people leading a "pure" life, teetotalers, vegetarians etc., there are tens of thousands in the world; but the right persons selected as Founders were the best that could be found to usher TS with its target on helping Humanity. Somewhere along the way, it appears that the prime focus of TS on this issue was put on the back burner and the push for recruiting and training future adepts became the leading mission. This is in spite of repeated assertions/clarifications from HPB and the Adepts that they were trying to get a job done and that was the prime focus of their efforts to get TS launched. This may be one of the reasons why the TS is languishing in terms of both membership around the world and the lack of dynamism. Sometime later I will post a recent issue I have taken up with TSA about what seems to be wrong emphasis on its mission. Merry Chrismas & Happy New Year. mkr From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:48:31 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: 3rd Symposium on Secret Doctrine Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971225054831.00705d7c@mail.eden.com> THIRD SYMPOSIUM on THE SECRET DOCTRINE and H. P. BLAVATSKY May 21 to 24, 1998 Saint Francis de Sales ARCHDIOCESE PASTORAL CENTER 7501 NW Expressway Oklahoma City, OK 73123 CALL FOR PAPERS -------------------------------------- The year of 1998 is the 110th anniversary of the publication of H. P. Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine (S.D.), which was published in 1888. We will honor the occasion with the third symposium in the U.S. on S.D. in recent years. H.P.B.'s intention in her source book of esoteric philosophy was to bring to the highest minds a far-reaching vision and cutting-edge understanding of our universe and our own humanity. This symposium is being organized to further this vision. The first symposium was held in San Diego, July 21-22, 1984. There were 17 papers from 4 countries. The proceedings were published as the Symposium on HPB's Secret Doctrine, Wizards Bookshelf, San Diego, 1984. The second symposium was called "Secret Doctrine Centenary." It was held October 29-30, 1988, in Pasadena, California. The Report of Proceedings was published by The Theosophical Society, Pasadena, California, U.S.A. SYMPOSIUM NEWSLETTER Periodically a newsletter will be sent out to participants and supporters of the symposium. The newsletter will provide timely information about the symposium prior to next May. Those interested in receiving the newsletter are encouraged to request it in the attached response form. VENUE AND ACCOMMODATIONS This symposium will be held at the beautiful Saint Francis Pastoral Center, Oklahoma City. Details for food and lodging will be made available in the meeting announcement to be distributed early in 1998. This announcement will include a preliminary program and a call for registration. WEB PAGE Stay current on symposium activities by visiting our web page! http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/astrycker/ CALL FOR PAPERS We invite participation by all serious students of the S.D. who are interested in or involved in theosophic work federation wide, nationwide, or worldwide. For those interested in submitting one or more papers, please: 1) Submit (by January 31, 1998) a proposal by mentioning a title, a brief synopsis, and a draft outline. 2) Send in (by May 1, 1998) the final written paper for publication. A committee will review those titles submitted by January 31 and make a selection for those to be presented at the conference. It is expected that there will be more papers than time to deliver all of them orally. In choosing those to be read, we will try to keep an overall balance of topics on the S.D. However, all papers submitted that are considered relevant to the conference will be included in the proceedings. The papers in the proceedings will not be limited to those presented at the conference. A copy of the proceedings will be available at the conference (cost will be extra). Ceremonial addresses will be reduced to a minimum to accommodate as many oral deliveries as possible. Brief comments will be permitted for each presentation. VOLUNTEERS In addition to authors and conference attendees, we also need volunteers and sponsors. Registration costs will be kept low to encourage participation (ca. $35), and therefore, financial support from sponsors to defray mailing costs, etc., will be gratefully accepted. Those unable to help financially, may be able to assist in other ways. TELL US HOW YOU CAN HELP! -------------------------------- SOME SUGGESTED TOPICS OR TITLES FOR PAPERS 1. Science and The Secret Doctrine 2. Religion or Spirituality and The Secret Doctrine 3. Philosophy and The Secret Doctrine 4. Chaos, Order or Beauty, and The Secret Doctrine 5. Cyclicity or Periodicity 6. Unity, Polarity, Diversity 7. Motion, Mind, and Matter 8. No-God, Gods, and Goddesses 9. The Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma Letters 10. The Self and Not-the-Self or Not-a-true-self 11. The Real, Virtual Reality, and the Unreal 12. Globes, Chains, Rounds, and Root Races 13. Involution, Evolution, and Resolution 14. Teachings: Exoteric, Mesoteric, and Esoteric 15. Reunion & Realization-Revelation & Reason 16. How The Secret Doctrine Came About 17. Where is the rest of The Secret Doctrine? 18. Key Technical Terms to The Secret Doctrine 19. Secret Doctrine and World Myths, Legends, and Fables 20. Truth, Theosophy, and Theology 21. Chelaship to Adeptship 22. Disciplines: Discipleship to Discoveries 23. Awareness to Awakenings 24. Cosmic and Human Consciousness 25. Space, Time, and Eternity 26. Root Races, Subraces, and Branch Races 27. Physical and Superphysical Realities 28. Monads and the Kingdoms of Nature 29. Number: Measure to Metaphysical Metaphors 30. Mudra, Chakra, Mantra, Sutra 31. Yantra, Tantra, Vajra 32. Etcetera, N-cetera TITLES OF SOME OF THE PAPERS PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED "Science and the Secret Doctrine," W. D. McDavid. "The Hidden Deity in World Religions," Vic R. Hao-Chin, Jr. "Light the Dzyan: Kala Chakra," David Reigle. "Science in Myths," Elsa-Brita Titchenell. "Secret Doctrine in Braille Projects," Dennis Gottschalk. "Caves of India," James A. Santucci. "Six Propositions of the Secret Doctrine," John P. Van Mater "An Invitation to the Secret Doctrine," Grace F. Knoche. "The Secret Doctrine and its Cultural Impact," Manuel Oderberg. "The Writing and Publication of the Secret Doctrine," unknown. -many others- MIDWEST FEDERATION, TSA Nancy Blott, President 100 SE 9th-Suite 902 Topeka, KS 66612 785-235-280 1 THIRD SECRET DOCTRINE SYMPOSIUM Oklahoma City, May 21-24, 1998 SECRET DOCTRINE RESPONSE CHECK SHEET Please check all that apply: __ I would like to submit a paper (enclose title and summary). Submit no later than January 31, 1998. __ I would like to attend the symposium. (Put me on the mailing list for the next conference announcement.) __ I would like to receive the newsletter. __ I would like to help with the symposium (indicate areas of specific interest). __ I would like to become a sponsor (enclose financial support). __ I cannot participate, but will provide good thoughts. Name: Address: City, State & ZIP: Phone: Email: Fax: Please return via postal mail to: Secret Doctrine Symposium 100 SE 9th-Suite 902 Topeka, KS 66612 or via email to: astrycker@compuserve.com Do you have any comments or suggestions? =========================== end ================================ From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:39:04 EST From: Drpsionic Subject: happy holidays Message-ID: <21b5e022.34a28c2b@aol.com> Hi folks, well, here I am, trapped in West Allis Wisconsin among the dweebs and I got this from another list. enjoy. Chuck the Heretic The 12 Days of the Apocolypse Since the holidays are upon us again, our thoughts of late have probably turned to gift-giving, feasting, and festive tunes. However, as we approach the millenium, some have been shouting dire warnings of the impending apocalypse. Curious as to what all the hub-(beelze)bub was about, I decided to go to the source of these dire predictions, the Book of Revelation. I can't say that I was able to make much sense of it, but being in a Seasons Greetings kind of mood, I decided to set it to music. THE TWELVE DAYS OF THE APOCALYPSE by Barth Richards with some help from the Book of Revelation (notes and references follow) On the first day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me A Beast rising out of the sea. On the second day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me Two olive trees And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the third day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the fourth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the fifth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the sixth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the seventh day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me A book with seven seals, Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the eighth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me A besat who is the eighth, A book with seven seals, Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the ninth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me The ninth foundation of topaz, A beast who is the eighth, A book with seven seals, Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the tenth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me A dragon with ten horns, The ninth foundation of topaz, A beast who is the eighth, A book with seven seals, Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the eleventh day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me The reed from Chapter Eleven, A dragon with ten horns, The ninth foundation of topaz, A beast who is the eighth, A book with seven seals, Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. On the twelfth day of the apocalypse my true love gave to me A city with twelve gates, The reed from Chapter Eleven, A dragon with ten horns, The ninth foundation of topaz, A beast who is the eighth, A book with seven seals, Six hundred sixty-six, Five fallen kings, Four horsemen riding, Three unclean spirits, Two olive trees, And a Beast rising out of the sea. ===================================================================== Notes: A Beast rising out of the sea Rev. 13:1, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." I'm picturing a ten-headed animal with a letter on each head....Wait a minute, B L A S P H E M Y, that's only nine letters. Perhaps the tenth head is reserved for an exclamation point. Two olive trees Rev. 11:3-4, "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." More than three years in the same clothes? (Sackcloth, no less.) Those boys are gonna be pretty ripe by the time this is over. They're probably going to want to use those candlesticks to burn their clothes, because not even dry cleaning is going to be able to salvage them. Perhaps the power given unto the two witnesses is a miraculous deodorant. Strong enough for a man, but made for a witness (whose been wearing the same clothes for twelve hundred and sixty days). Three unclean spirits Rev 16:13, "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." Oh my. A terrifying prospect. Not venemous serpents. Not huge beasts of prey with razor-sharp claws and scythe-like fangs. No. Frogs. Hear their terrible croaking and despair. Four horsemen riding Rev. 6:1-8, "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." OK, the four horsemen are a pretty impressive image, but wouldn't there be some confusion. I mean, there are four horsemen on four horses: War riding a white horse, Chaos on a red horse, Famine on a black horse, and Death on a pale horse. How were they supposed to tell the white horse and the pale horse apart? I can just hear it now: "Hey, I'm War. I've got the white horse, so I get the cool weapons and stuff." "No, *I'm* War. You're Death. You can have Hell following you. *I* get the cool weapons." "No way! I've got the white horse, so *I'm* War!" "Nu-uh! *I've* got the white horse. You've got the *pale* horse." "Do not!" "Do too!" "Do not!" "Do too!" Five fallen kings Rev. 17:10, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Maybe they tripped. Some say they were pushed. Six hundred sixty-six Rev. 13:18, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." And the concept that would spawn the cover art of a thousand heavy metal albums was born. A book with seven seals Rev. 5:1, "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." If they were worried about people thumbing through it without buying it, maybe they should have shrink-wrapped it or just kept it behind the counter. A beast who is the eighth Rev. 17:11, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." OK. I'm pretty much at a loss with this one. Though I think Perdition is in Ohio. If it's near Sandusky, I guess that goething there would be a pretty frightening prospect. The ninth foundation of topaz Rev. 21:19-20, "And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; THE NINTH, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst." Pretty lame, I'll admit, but it is the only time that the number nine is mentioned in the Book of Revelation. Believe me, I looked. A dragon with ten horns Rev. 12:3, "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads." So, there's one horn each on four heads and two on the other three, or are there three on one head, two on another, and one each on the remaining five? Hold on, perhaps there are three horns on one head, three horns on another, and one each on the other five heads....Oh, no, that would be eleven horns....Wait a minute. What if....Hmmm, I need to get a pencil and work this out. The reed from Chapter Eleven Rev. 11:1, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." I know. It's even lamer than the topaz one, but it was either this or another foundation. A city with twelve gates Rev. 21:10-12, "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:" Descending out of heaven? Woe to whatever city is beneath Jerusalem when it gets dropped out of the sky, I guess. Well, that's urban renewal for you. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:15:26 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: 3rd Symposium on SD Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971225121526.00705488@mail.eden.com> Dear Stryker: In the flyer on the subject, there was a question how you can help. Here are some ideas of using computers and Internet technology as an aid both for the writers/presenters to communicate and making the Symposium material available to everyone in the Cyber space around the world. It is an opportunity that is available for the first time for the Symposium. 1. Request everyone who is submitting abstracts, summaries and final paper to either e-mail them to you or submit them in diskettes in Microsoft Word or WordPerfect format. It is more than likely that everyone may be able to do it. 2. As and when the material arrive, they can be distributed on the Internet by e-mail to everybody interested. This can be done as soon as the material arrives. 3. This would provide opportunity for the entire Theosophical community to comment on the material. There are scholars around the world who could provide immensely valuable feedback which will be useful to everyone including the committee screening the material. 4. When the committee selects the papers, they can immediately announce the selection on the Internet. 5. As and when the final papers are ready, they can be distributed by e-mail around the world. 6. During the symposium, each day after the morning and afternoon session, a summary of proceedings and discussions can be prepared. It can be printed immediately and distributed to those present and also e-mailed to everyone interested. 7. This way those who for one reason or the other cannot be present at the symposium can keep up with the symposium at every step. 8. Let us make use of e-mail to our best advantage. It is free. Only it is going to take the labor of love of some of us. 9. If anyone has any comments on the above, please post them to theos-l, ti-l, theos-talk with a copy to Strycker. 10. I will be willing to help in any of the above tasks in the cyberspace. M K Ramadoss From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:15:26 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: 3rd Symposium on SD Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971225121526.00705488@mail.eden.com> Dear Stryker: In the flyer on the subject, there was a question how you can help. Here are some ideas of using computers and Internet technology as an aid both for the writers/presenters to communicate and making the Symposium material available to everyone in the Cyber space around the world. It is an opportunity that is available for the first time for the Symposium. 1. Request everyone who is submitting abstracts, summaries and final paper to either e-mail them to you or submit them in diskettes in Microsoft Word or WordPerfect format. It is more than likely that everyone may be able to do it. 2. As and when the material arrive, they can be distributed on the Internet by e-mail to everybody interested. This can be done as soon as the material arrives. 3. This would provide opportunity for the entire Theosophical community to comment on the material. There are scholars around the world who could provide immensely valuable feedback which will be useful to everyone including the committee screening the material. 4. When the committee selects the papers, they can immediately announce the selection on the Internet. 5. As and when the final papers are ready, they can be distributed by e-mail around the world. 6. During the symposium, each day after the morning and afternoon session, a summary of proceedings and discussions can be prepared. It can be printed immediately and distributed to those present and also e-mailed to everyone interested. 7. This way those who for one reason or the other cannot be present at the symposium can keep up with the symposium at every step. 8. Let us make use of e-mail to our best advantage. It is free. Only it is going to take the labor of love of some of us. 9. If anyone has any comments on the above, please post them to theos-l, ti-l, theos-talk with a copy to Strycker. 10. I will be willing to help in any of the above tasks in the cyberspace. M K Ramadoss From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:43:28 -0500 From: Frank Reitemeyer Subject: Error in Cranston Message-ID: <199712261744_MC2-2D3D-B917@compuserve.com> The H.P.B. Biography by Sylvia Cranston, revised edition, has an error on page 597 conc. to EN 124. The text runs: "The Reichsfuhrer [Adolf Hitler]..." In fact the title "Reichsfuhrer" (with umlaut - two points over the "u") belonged not to Hitler but to Himmler. Hitler himself was called "The Fuhrer" (with umlaut, too). In detail, the official title of Heinrich Himmler from June 17, 1936 on was "Reichsfuhrer-SS und Chef der deutschen Polizei". Already "Reichsfuhrer SS" since January, 6, 1929, but chief of the police he got not before 1936. Source: Ludwig Peters, Volkslexikon des Drittes Reich, Tubingen, 1994. Anyone should be so glad to inform both the author and the publisher or give me the addresses. Frank Reitemeyer From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:14:06 -0600 From: "JNBoom" Subject: Help unsubscribing Message-ID: <01bd1418$964c5f00$1969fccf@default> To anyone who can help, I would like information on how to unsubscribe this email address from this mailing list. The person who used this address for your mailing list is no longer using this computer. I have attempted to "unsubscribe" by using the instructions (email to listserv@vnet.net with "signoff Theos-L"), asked for "help" from the server and even wrote a message asking for help to jem@vnet.net without any luck. If someone could please remove this address from the mailing list or tell me how to correctly remove the address, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Sorry for using up your bandwith. Peace. JNBoom@webspun.com From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:37:36 -0600 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Help unsubscribing Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971229073736.00705560@mail.eden.com> The only person who can take you off the list is JEM. May be he is on vacation and you should soon hear from him. mkr At 12:18 AM 12/29/1997 -0500, you wrote: >To anyone who can help, > >I would like information on how to unsubscribe this email address from >this mailing list. The person who used this address for your mailing >list is no longer using this computer. I have attempted to >"unsubscribe" by using the instructions (email to listserv@vnet.net >with "signoff Theos-L"), asked for "help" from the server and even >wrote a message asking for help to jem@vnet.net without any luck. > >If someone could please remove this address from the mailing list or >tell me how to correctly remove the address, I would appreciate it. >Thank you. Sorry for using up your bandwith. > >Peace. > >JNBoom@webspun.com > > > > From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:03:18 -0800 From: thoa@withoutwalls.com (Thoa Tran) Subject: Mondrian Message-ID: Hi Eiichi, Eiichi: >For Hegel, philosophy and religion are identical: The content is the same, >the form is different. He said that Philosophy "accomplishes" Christianity. >Rationalists' arguments are not necessarily based on the >"known things", nor just looking at materialistic side of the things. Philosophy and religion are identical in terms of Hegel's description of Plato's suprasensible world and Christianity's constant world of the beyond, a true and consistent world of laws. However, according to Hegel, that is not so. This true world of laws is not tranquil, but constantly changing, because everything contains change. The Christian world of a God apart from humanity creates conflict. This belief causes people to separate themselves from reality and prevents solutions to problems. This is different from Hegel's perception of the dynamic and interacting "inverted" world. >For Mondrian as well religious and philosophy are the same thing (so >does in theosophy, I think). Mondrian did make an interesting mix of dialectism and Theosophy in his essays, although he is using apples and oranges to make his argument. Mondrian's objective of changing society through his utopian art is dialectic. His constant using of relationships, of a utopian environment making a new man, is dialectic. His idea of equilibrium through placement of opposing forces is similar to Hegel's using the opposition of forces and electricity to make his points. However, the substance of Hegel's dialectism and Theosophy are dissimilar and ultimately cannot go together. In Theosophy's world of Truth, the Real can be arrived at by stripping away all that is inessential. Hence, Consciousness can exist in itself, A=A. In the law of dialectics, this is meaningless because separation will only cause alienation and because everything has to contain change. Thus, reality and suprareality changes according to the laws of dialectic and "everything has a constant difference from everything else.". For dialectics to exist, there has to be separatedness. In Theosophy, this separatedness is only illusory, it is not the Real, the All. Interestingly, for Mondrian, dialectism is a mean of stripping away the inessentials, of exposing A. >We are now living in a no-truth world. >Truth cannot be authenticized now (such a naive era was gone, when >thinkers struggled to proof the truth). It may be a "no-truth" phenomenal world of maya, but in Theosophy's noumenal world, "(t)he 'Parent Space' is the eternal, ever present cause of all-the incomprehensible DEITY, whose 'invisible robes' are the mystic root of all matter, and of the Universe. Space is the one eternal thing that we can most easily imagine, immovable in its abstraction and uninfluenced by either the presence or absence in it of an objective Universe." (The Secret Doctrine I, p. 35, Stanza I) Compare that to Hegel's philosophy of opposites. Mondrian cannot be a Theosophist and a Hegelian at the same time. He may apply Hegelian philosophy in the phenomenal world, but the root of Theosophy and the root of Hegel's philosophy cannot go together. >Mondrian also seek for the 'reality' and the 'truth', but not just in a >naive way. He just can't. Because he was a practical painter and a very >serious one. For him every important theoria should be realized on >canvas, where there is no transcendental arguments - every entity of >elements of composition is exposed in front of you. My argument about >Mondrian's rationalist side is to show the limitation of the Hegelian's >logical thoughts, which Mondrian (and Adorno) inherited. Yes, since our divisive selves can only discern the phenomenal world, we need to deal with it in a practical way. Mondrian may have inherited Hegelian thought in relation to the practical world, but he must have seen its limitation, too, since he is a theosophist. Throughout his essay in "Natural Reality and Abstract Reality: An Essay in Trialogue Form 1919-1920," (Publisher George Braziller, Inc., ISBN 0-8076-1372-X) he made many remarks regarding the need to not focus on the material and the practical. In scene 6, he stated that the practical process of creating ultimately weakens the contact with the universal. To eliminate that, he thought that the exactness of machine-made materials to diminish individualism's effect, might be the answer. >Hegelian's logical thinking is just an occurrence in the 'head.' This >side was seviourly criticized by the other philosophers championed by >Kierkegaard. Kierkegaard said that in Hegeliam logic there is no room >for argument of "movement": it's just a "mirage." Kierkegaard strongly champions subjective truth, as opposed to Hegel's dependence on relationships. I tend to agree with Kierkegaard in that one should know what is best for oneself. On the other hand, I believe in responsibility to others, and try to solve problems based on my thinking of others. It's a fine line between loving oneself and loving others, selfishness and being used/controlled. In an ideal world, loving others does not result in being controlled or used. However, in this world, I find that is not so. For example, in performing social services, people tend to use you as a personal chauffeur without consideration for your feelings and time. When you give them money, they will keep on asking as if you're a money bag and will not enquire as to your welfare when they do not need money. In personal relationships, acquiescence leads to no consideration for your time, dreams, or convictions. Maybe what is best for oneself is knowing the boundaries. >'Rhythm' is a strange thing: It's half thought, half experience. Earlier >stage of Neo-plasticism (1917-1927) Mondrian took the theory of 'rhythm' >based on Hegelian's dichotomy - 'subjectivity' vs. 'objectivity', on >which also many theosophical philosophers based in the beginning of this >century, especially such a scholar as Schoenmaekers, by whom Mondrian >got obviously influenced. > >In Mondrian Hegelian logicalism and Theosophist mysticism are >interestingly mixed up. I think he sensed the limitation of the Hegelian >logicalism (Mondrian thought rhythm is the property of the subject and >the substratum of composition, and in the process of attaining the >objective (or the universal) functions as an agent to attain >equilibrated point, which was, in the earlier stage, 'stasis'. In mystical thinking, each is part of a whole and yet is the whole. In order to see the whole, we need to look at the part in its relationship to the whole, see that the part is also the whole, and that there is no differentiation. Ultimately, there is no such thing as separation. With that in mind, we can understand Mondrian's idea of multiplicity. In Scene 2, p.36, Mondrian made the difference between materialistic rhythm and inner rhythm. In a Hegelian sense, rhythm is formed through relationships of separate things to each other. Also, rhythm unifies them, that is, destroy their individuality and "capriciousness". That is true in naturalistic painting. In the New Plastic, the multiplicity of the "primordial relationship" creates an inward rhythm, and this destroys natural rhythm. This makes sense in that "rhythm, no matter how inward, is always present, and is even varied by the diversity of dimensions through which the primordial relationship, that of position, is expressed." To me, that is yogic rhythm, the rhythm of stillness, the rhythm that passes through the various laya centers, the various dimensions. This "equilibrated duality" creates stillness. This stillness is the inner rhythm. This is "movement as purely equilibrated relationship expressing repose."(p.100) >In Hegel 'absoluteness' and the 'universal' is the same thing and which >is brought by 'judgement.' Within this 'judgement-universal' sphere >rhythm is the epistemological evidence and not empirical one. What do you mean by 'judgment'? Hegel's 'absoluteness' refers to the perfect, total, and practical concept of the world. The perfect merging of theory with practice. To him, this is an unattainable ideal. Hegel's concept of the "universal" is unlike the theosophical concept of the universal, which cannot be affected by theory or practice. >Then Mondrian gradually elevated the status of rhythm as a role within >the subjective, from the substratum of composition to the same level as >composition, which organizes the elements of painting, such as lines, >colour planes. As he became more aware of the role of rhythm in his thinking, he began to employ it more consciously in his painting, probably walking the fine line between naturalistic rhythm and plastic rhythm. He also said that the practical distracts from the universal. >Here my interest in Hinduism (and Theosophy), which you evoked me a >lot, is that the theory of rhythm in Hinduism, I conjecture, is not >limited to the epistemological evidence, but applicable to the empirical >field. In order to attest this point, all you have to do is to listen >Hindu music. A great deal of Hindu music is very rhythmic and exactly >based on the theory called Raga. > >If Mondrian knew Yogic theory of rhythm like Bailey put it, it will be a >very interesting story. The scenario is like this: Mondrian quit the >theory of rhythm based on Hegelian logicalism, and in the process of his >deepening Theosophical-Hindu thoughts accompanied by his experience as a >practical painter, he constituted the theory in much empirical way, >which is still based on some logic; this time Hinduism. I hope this >scenario will work in a positive way. How do you think? It's a possibility. It could also be that he merged rational thought and mystical thought from the very beginning. Think of it this way. No matter what we do, we have to acknowledge the material and use it to connect with the universal, even if it's by meditation or chanting. To me, Mondrian used the concept of relationship between material means (color, lines, tones), expressed via Hegelian concepts, in order to reach the ultimate goal of inner rhythm that connects to the universal. >Definitely your English is better than mine, but you also should watch >out: too much vocabulary and rhetoric might kill the clarity of the >argument. Your throwing stone cannot kill two birds at the same time - a >clumsy English speaking preacher birdie with a clear argument and a >smart English speaking preacher birdie with a clear rhetoric. Clumsy >talker sometimes enchants the listeners because of the contents. Anyway >I always love your witty joke, Thoa. A smart English speaking preacher with a clear argument creates poetry. I could be Shakespeare, but you'll have to stick with Haiku, Eiichi.:o) >> >OK. My religious experiences are not theoretical ones, though. >> >> If not theoretical, what were they like? >> > >Maybe mysticism. This answer makes a tautology, doesn't it? Depending on whether it REALLY is theoretical. > Okay, partner, the tennis ball is on your side, again!$B!!(J Ka-pow!!! On your side!!! Namaste, Thoa :o)