From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 12:39:24 -0700 (PDT) From: eldon (Eldon B. Tucker) Subject: any interest? This is by Brenda Tucker. I have the text of two old speeches (1991) that just need a few hours work. If anyone is interested I could upload either or both. One is given mainly on the content of a Quest book: TAO OF MOTHER GOOSE. The second is a talk from a book by Teilhard de Chardin. If anyone expresses interest, I can share this here. Yours truly. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: 2 Jun 1994 17:59:03 -0400 From: "LEWIS LUCAS" Subject: Re: Disseminating theosophy I disagree with the assertions that theosophy is an "elite" philosophy. There is something in it for everyone. To say only an elite few can appreciate the beauty and in many ways simple ideas of theosophy assumes too much. The golden rule is a simple idea that even the simple mind of children can understand and very "theosophical". Lewis From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: 2 Jun 1994 18:13:47 EST From: "LEWIS LUCAS" Subject: Re: Disseminating theosophy I think to live a reclusive life, avoiding the news and its unpleasantries, is necessary for some. But there is a tremendous need for workers in the "field". As such, I feel it is my obligation, my duty to stay informed of local, regional, national and international conditions. Blavatsky suggested that to practice theosophy meant to work for the eliviation in some small way of the suffering (caused in large part by ignorance of the esoteric laws of nature) of all humanity...and even the animals. It is very difficult not to turn ones back on suffering. The suffering is so great and each of us feels overwhelmed by the size of the task. The task is made more difficult by the fact there are so few workers in the field. I am reminded of sceen from a popluar movie called "Top Gun" in which the hero loses his friend. He finds himself still in the world and being asked to "ENGAGE" the enemy. A choice we all face at some time in our lives. We need your help. ENGAGE! Lewis From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: 2 Jun 1994 18:16:50 -0400 From: "LEWIS LUCAS" Subject: Re: Disseminating theosophy Again YES! You have engaged! Keep up the good work. Our thoughts are powerful forces for the good others far beyond their seeming proportion. Lewis From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: 2 Jun 1994 18:22:31 -0400 From: "LEWIS LUCAS" Subject: Re: Cyril Scott I have the idea he wrote several books that dealt in some ways with the Krishnamurti defection, but wrote them annonymously at the time. If I remember correctly they were suppose to have been "inspired" or something by the Masters. One idea I remember from them was that Krishnamurti's rejection of theosophy led him back to a Hindu philosophy from a previous birth which he was much more comfortable with. It was some type of minimalistic philosophy that reduced everything to just one thing. Lewis From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 15:56:48 +0300 (EDT) From: Aki Korhonen Subject: News and a reclusive life Avoiding the news and to live a reclusive life are not necessarily the same thing. Of course, a real reclude feels repulsion to the news of the world. Before we accept or reject the mass media of communication we should do some analysis of the news. At the abstract level the media of communication is a very good thing. The practice of it is not so nice to look at. The first fault is, that the global news agencies are commercial enterprises, so they have to sell what people demand; and what sells, we all know. The news' value is not its objective information but, how it "entertains". The second fault is a cliche, that the news are one-sided. In order to find out the truth, we have to engage a painstaking task to dig up every thread of news on the topic from different sources. Then we have to run an analysis on them, and then judge what is right and what is wrong. That is a very good mental practice to do, but to do it properly and regularly takes very, very much time, time that you could use to do something more of benefit, for example to help one's fellowman. I think that people in general are too lazy to do very serious cross-checking on the news, they just form their opinion kind of randomly, depending on their world-view. The third fault is that the mass-media is so huge and overwhelming organisation that nobody can monitor all the news it has to offer, so the few important news buries under the roar of insignificant ones. In practice mass-media is a one-way road, you just take the news, you can't comment to them directly. So you have to listen many things you don't accept and things you consider as lies, but you can't really do anything about it. If you try, it is a one man against the rest of the world. This internet-kind of information service is far more different, you can select automatically what news you get, and you can comment them if you feel urge. The fourth fault is that the majority of the news are not important. What do you do with the knowledge you gain from media? How you can direct your life by them? What is the essential knowledge and information you really need to live a good life? I believe you don't find it from the mass-media. The fifth fault is that people's comprehension of news is corrupted, there is e.g. sport-news. I don't care to mention worse examples of "news". The sixth fault is that modern technology is so advanced that we can bury our senses ultimately by mass-media and entertainment, or have to, if we want to stay "up-to-date". The seventh fault is little more complex; I believe that there is a tendency that by global, homogeneous mass-media, culture and entertainment we create a human race that reacts very much according to expectations. Then, the whole human race is more easy to control and to lead. Also, to market different goods is more easy when people have similar tastes, etc. In schools they teach students to follow mass-media, they have exercises how to collect information from them, etc. So, after a lifelong conditioning an individual may feel bad conscience if he/she doesn't follow mass-media. Also, an individual, who doesn't follow media, may be a little bit dangerous to society, because he/she may think in a different way. Of course if everybody would have his/hers own way, the nations and governments would be impossible. So, it is absolutely a good thing that we have this kind of unifying media, otherwise we would have chaos and anarchy. How to stay up-to-date? I have found that if something really important happens there is practically no way to avoid knowing about it. The information is in every news-broadcasts - many times per day, in every newspaper, in current affairs programmes... And lastly, people talk about it. Today there is a lot of suffering, violence and accidents displayed at mass-media. You might say, that not to read, watch or listen about them is to avoid fellowman's suffering. What you see on tv is not really the suffering, it is the image of the suffering. Just look at to people you meet at the streets, offices, work, home...and you see suffering. My choice, four years ago, when I noticed some of these things, was to reject all "information". What I got instead? Lots of free time to think by myself. Now my thoughts have cleared so much, and I have built a healthy criticism to mass media, that I don't mind browsing a newspaper now and then. To tv, I'm still allergic. A human being is in perpetual evolution, yesterday we were different beings and tomorrow we shall be different from now. So, maybe I'm now just going trough some modern, reclude phase in my life. Can you live without television? Peace to all creatures. Aki From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jessica L. Coker" Subject: chaos June 3, 1994 I have fallen out of the Theos e-mail loop somehow due to changes here at the Cal Tech Project. I have not gotten any mail for days. Kim noticed the same problem at his end also. Hope to be back in the loop soon. Nancy Coker. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 09:50:54 +1100 From: Subject: Re: chaos Hi Nancy...Got you over here...lots of love Paddy From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 16:43:36 -0700 From: jhe@koko.csustan.edu (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) Subject: chaos Nancy, Nothing received here for days either. I sent a message to John Mead, but haven't heard from him either. Are you sure it is a cal tech problem. I checked at this university and they said that everything is fine. Yours is the only message I have received lately. Jerry Hejka-Ekins From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 07:10:31 +0300 (EDT) From: Aki Korhonen Subject: News and a reclusive life - A.K. (2nd sending) Because of the "chaos" messages I send this again. Here in Finland I have received mail everyday...but not so many.. On Fri, 3 Jun 1994, Aki Korhonen wrote: > Avoiding the news and to live a reclusive life are not necessarily > the same thing. Of course, a real reclude feels repulsion to the > news of the world. Before we accept or reject the mass media of > communication we should do some analysis of the news. ... From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 18:59:52 -0400 (EDT) From: John Mead Subject: just got back Hi -- I just got back from a several day retreat at the Meher Baba Center in Murtle Beach SC. Ok.... messages sent from Theos-l in June - jun 1 -Jerry HE 1 message Eldon 1 " jun 2 Lewis Lucas 4 messages jun 3 Aki korhonen 1 message Nancy Coker 1 message jun 4 Paddy P. 1 message jun 5 jerry HE 2 messages jun 6 Aki Korhonen 1 message if this is wrong... (i.e. you did NOT get these --- OR you sent a message NOT listed --- OR you GOT more than these) please let me know! I will be sending a letter out on M. Baba soon. This was the first time I had heard of him or read his literature. one comment -- someone had asked IF there was a new spiritual message for our century...... I thought not (other than Alice Bailey, and the Urantia Book, both (or neither) a satisfactory answer...) I now think that M. Baba may have been it. The TS really missed the boat when they picked Krishnamurti over M. Baba (My Humble Opinion) as the coming Messiah. I am NOT a M. Baba devotee at this point... BUT M. Baba HAS ALOT better explanations in MORE COMPLETE detail than anything I've personally seen from the TS.... (Planes, Globes, Evolution of Consciousness, meditation, Master/Desciple relationships, Mahatmas, and the science of occultism....) Peace -- John Mead From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 22:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: eldon@netcom.com (Eldon B. Tucker) Subject: 1991 speech on Tao This is by Brenda Tucker. It is the first part of several parts. The speech was given in 1991 and I am rewriting from notes. China had her Confucians and her Taoists. Confucians circumscribe the "Great Extreme" within a circle with a horizontal line. Taoists place three concentric circles beneath the great circle, and a third group, the Sung Sages, show the "Great Extreme" in an upper circle, and Heaven and Earth in two lower and smaller circles. This presentation is taken from the classical work of Taoism, the TAO TE CHING, as well as two other books from my library: THE TAO AND MOTHER GOOSE by Robert Carter and THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER. Of course the Tao is an Eastern term and Mother Goose is a Western topic. The reason we can study them together is that they both make use of creation stories. The story of creation is relevant both in the present and in the future of man. Creation is daily and constantly repeated, renewed, and re-experienced by us all. A million new cells are daily born. In each creation story the one becomes two, whether it takes the form of Light and Darkness, Heaven and Earth, Land and Sea, or Male and Female (Yang Yin) In the East as well as the West, two is a lessening, a division, and a diminishing that gives rise to a longing for the one. Born with two is a sense of alienation, a feeling of being irretrievably cut off from the source. Born also is a need for religion: something that will bind us back to the one. All social and governmental systems, arts, architecture, and sciences were designed to be refections of the heavenly order. Most early human effort was not solely directed at physical survival, but was influenced strongly by the need for religion: a way to bind us back to the One. Take as an illustration the separateness of our hands, which we join together when we pray. Another more eastern and less tangible analogy is found pictured in the usefulness and beauty of desireless action or non-action, for when there is no desire, the two hands become absorbed and inseparable in accomplishing a common task. In Christian prayer, an action of the heart and head, we find a linear focus, one that is directed away from the self and outward to God. In Oriental tradition, a focus on the navel center (hara or belly) helps to form a self-contained circle where the situation of the hands focus a person downward and inward to a God within. In both desire prevents is what prevents successful communion with God. Desire only exists in the duality of object and subject. Although desire for oneness is the highest and noblest human goal, it is also the source of our deepest frustration and all attempts at making the unknown known are self-defeating. In the East there is a story about Chaos being discovered as the cause of successful achievements by a group of followers. They wish to repay Chaos for their success, but Chaos has no organs of sense to discriminate by. They try to help their effort at repayment by each day providing Chaos with another sense. In so doing they now have Chaos in their own image and while they congratulate themselves on making retribution, Chaos dies. Westerners show an experience of some of the same frustration, and as Meister Eckhardt says "Christians had killed God and were worshiping his antithesis. To seek God by rituals is to gain the ritual and lose God in the process, for He hides behind it." Verse 1. Meister Eckhardt. If Invisible/Infinite cannot be made visible/finite, how may it ever be approached? Well, the answer in the Tao Te Ching is this: With pairing. Verse 1. THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER, found printed in 1794 is translated and explained by Richard Wilhelm with a commentary by Carl Jung. Magically Lu-Tsu prefaced this book, he was thought to have lived in 800 A.D. In the preface, he attributes the book's origin to Master Yin-hsi of the Pass for whom Lao-Tse wrote down his Tao Te Ching. In Jung's commentary he also provides an examination of the Western - Eastern relationship and explains it this way. The East creeps in through the back door of the unconscious and strongly influences us in perverted forms. The West repels all unconcscious influence with violent prejudice and shows preference to conscious, outwardly obtained views of metaphysics as if the unconscious were a poison to the scientific mind. This book has been traced to wooden tablets of the 17th century, but dates back orally to a religion of the Golden Elixir of Life developed in the T'ang period in the end of the 8th Century. The founder of this religion, a Taoist adept, Lu Yen, later counted as one of the eight immortals, has a rich store of myths concerning his life. The sect spread widely, but always as an esoteric and secret religion. They were persecuted by Manchus and government and 15,000 members were killed. When Taoism turned into wizardry, Lu Yen continued to stay in line with Lao- tse's ORIGINAL ideas which were more alchemical than magical. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: eldon@netcom.com (Eldon B. Tucker) Subject: part 2 of speech This is by Brenda Tucker. The first three paragraphs are a revision to part 1 of 1991 speech, dated 6/7/94. Westerners show an experience of some of the same frustration, and as Nietzsche says, Christians had killed God and were worshiping his antithesis. Meister Eckhardt said "To seek God by rituals is to gain the ritual and lose God in the process, for He hides behind it." If Invisible/Infinite cannot be made visible/finite, how may it ever be approached? Well, the answer in the Tao Te Ching is this: With pairing. Verse 1 The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. TAO TE CHING, translated by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English The following is part 2 of the 1991 speech. The paragraph that follows is by Richard Wilhelm and found in an introduction to another meditation text which appeared with THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER in a Chinese edition. "The text combines Buddhist and Taoist directions for meditation. The basic view is that at birth the two spheres of the psyche, consciousness and the unconscious, become separated. Consciousness is the element marking what is separated off, individualized, in a person, and the unconscious nature the element that unites him with the cosmos. Unification of the two elements via meditation is the principle upon which the work is based. The unconscious must be inseminated by consciousness being immersed into it. In this way the unconscious is activated and thus, together with an enriched conscious mind, acts upon a supra-personal mental level in the form of a spiritual rebirth. This rebirth then leads first to a progressing inner differentiation of the conscious state into autonomous thought structures. However, the conclusion of the meditation leads of necessity to the wiping out of all differences in the final integrated life, which is free of opposites." (from the Forward to the Fifth Edition by Salome Wilhelm) There may be two conditions of seeking the one. Kierkegaard, a 19th Century Danish philosopher, had coined phrases to illustrate the two ways of knowing and being in touch with the Infinite. He referred to one method as the "knight of infinite resignation" and describes him as one who is reconciled to an irreversible and complete division between the infinite world of Oneness and the finite world of dualities, in which we live. The sublime can be glimpsed by this type even more than once, but each time a falling back occurs, a falling back into the finite existence we all share. The "knight of faith" on the other hand has also glimpsed infinity, but has passed beyond the previous state, the resignation to an utter inaccessibility for more than a moment of the infinite world, and has somehow magically learned to live as if the infinite were within the very heart of the finiteness which contains us all. And so the "knight of faith," depicts a world in which simple things contain greatness, and so it may be said "if you can't find justification in the act of doing dishes, you can't find it anywhere." Mother - Father In fact archetypes of the Great Mother and Great Father are both extremely fluid and mercurial and difficult to distinguish. If Great Mother has been represented in a bewildering diversity of forms and functions, Great Father has as well. He has been known for both his creative and destructive powers, has been benevolent and cruel, adored and feared. We can borrow Carl Jung's terms anima and animus, Mother and Father respectively, as they manifest in the unconscious mind of the individual. They reverse depending upon sex, so that females use the male role, and males use the female figure to symbolize the unconscious. This coincidence of opposites present in the use of anima and animus is also present in physics and biology. In physics it is referred to as the principle of complementarity (things are caused by chance), uncertainty, randomness, simultaneity and synchronicity, the presence of probabilities to help predict rather than laws of nature. In biology, objectivity is profounded by an organisms pursuit of purpose, or its teleonomic character. In the TAO TE CHING, this same coincidence of opposites is called wu wei - doing by not-doing, creative quietude or actionless action. A wise man is also a fool or a clown. So a sublime figure may sometimes be represented as absurd as in the case of Mother Goose. THE TAO AND MOTHER GOOSE compares an Eastern tradition with Western nursery rhymes. The Eastern figure is Tao, a religious, philosophical poetic figure meaning the Way or God, stemming from the 6th Century B.C. The Upanishads' audience has been preoccupied with "secrets," but "to instruct," psychologically, may be more useful to our existence. The Mother Goose rhymes, at least 200 or so, are from the 16-17 Century or earlier. Mother Goose may have been a historical person and if so, perhaps she was Queen Bertha (d. 783 A.D.) or Bertha, the wife of Robert II (980-1031 A.D.). This woman seems to have had embarrassingly large feet, by which she was known as Queen Goose-foot and Goose-footed Bertha. Americans identify Mother Goose with a Boston lady whose surname was Goose. Her son-in-law published Mother Goose melodies in 1719. She was a story-teller, but also a witch who portrayed dark and Kali-like features. In 1952, one writer called for a nursery rhyme reform. The Great Mother appears in the past symbolized by a goose, lioness, or a snake, then ceases to be seen as an animal but riding on one or accompanied by it. She takes a human form and rules the animal kingdom. She rules over unconscious powers that still take animal form in our dreams. It is quite common for beastly characteristics to be used for the conveyance of heavenly ones - the dove for the Holy Spirit, etc. The goose lives in three elements-water, air, and ground. Its habits are regular, the cry is poignant, and she is faithful to a mate. You may remember Hamsa, a wild gander. Consider all the symbolism in egg laying and that a pair of geese used to be a traditional wedding present. So this humble and familiar figure of the goose is shown in company with the divine. Myths contain part fiction and part Truth. Some of the rhymes may have been aimed at public figures, and by being entertaining they are valuable to adults as well. The post-Renaissance period in development of Western cultures - which produced Mother Goose - has tended overwhelmingly to favor growth of rational, physical, and material concerns over the deeper unconscious and spiritual drives. A rise in materialism is accompanied by a decline in centrality and importance of myth and religion. If Great Mother is to be preserved at all, she may have to be presented as a Hollywood sex goddess for example. Because the Mother Goose rhymes would never be included in any branch of religious literature, they are folk and fairy tales, myths designed for the purpose of entertaining, They don't necessarily on the surface invoke religious awe. You be the judge after rhymes are examined here. Mother Goose fairy tales have been probed by researches, rhymes have not. They contain a delirious sequence of images which nonetheless does not lack a certain hidden coherence. They strike directly to their target in the unconscious of the young child, operating outside the realm of orderly time and space, beyond causation. They may be as nonsensical as dreams. They are like the toddlers who are only beginning to emerge into the world of consciousness, only barely acquainted with its concepts of ordered time and space, principles of causation, notions of death and eternal life, and subjects and objects of interest. Poetry or rhymes can be sung rather than simply said. The Bhagavad Gita, Tao Teh Ching, Bible, Shakespeare, too, evoke the greatest inner richness with greatest outer simplicity. Perhaps the rhythm of the rhyme above all else reverberates and echoes within us repeating both inner and outer rhythms, heartbeat, breathing, tides, cycles, There is evidence of incredible persistence in the rhymes as mother after mother recite the rhymes the same way they learned them as children in exactly the same words as they learned them. Generation after generation, they are being passed on in virtually identical forms. Neither Buddha, Socrates, nor Christ committed their teaching to fixed written word. Teaching spread orally, person-to-person in the living moment of the present. Well here they are present in an irrational sequence of images which have a certain hidden coherence, serving psychic needs of early childhood by containing archetypal imagery drawn from the collective unconscious. The nursery rhymes: 1. Introduce concepts, values, and traditions or the ways - of consciousness. Some acquaint children with customs. 2. Show order or system, some are tongue-twisters or riddles delighting in sounds, associations, and ideas. Some are counting rhymes, and some build up a sequence. 3. Convey a moralistic systems of values. The rhymes initiate a young person into the ways of waking consciousness, away from the chaos of unconscious. Why do they interest us? Robert Carter has compared The House that Jack Built with 16th Century Hebrew chants: present are a ritualistic quality and fatalism: one thing controlling the destiny of another. Children can understand a complete lack of moralizing or piousness, only adults are shocked. Classifying the types and examples and uses of rhymes turns up rhymes that are not so easily understood and not so easily classified. It is these exceptions that are puzzling and of greatest interest. These are the ones the author investigates in the book. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 16:12:54 +0100 From: ak@tks.oulu.fi (Antero Kangas) Subject: About theosophy What is your opinion to an argument, that theosophy is a kind of egoistic philosophy with mental training, opening chacras and making astral adventures with a help of some gurus, meanwhile common people are doing their best to keep the society alive. So that instead of astral world man should do something valuable for surrounding world. Which is more important to you and to which for universe. Antero Kangas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: 09 Jun 1994 15:22 GMT From: MOYER1@applelink.apple.com (Moyer, Christopher,CLA) Subject: Re: About theosophy It's interesting that you should pose that question now. I just finished a great book about the Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels. In the early centuries of Christianity, there was a power struggle between the esoteric inner church, the Gnostics, and the exoteric outer church, the Catholics. Within the Gnostic group there was also debate, this debate involving the scope of the church. The Catholics stood for a universal church, accepting of all who would profess the creed and follow the rules. The Eastern division of the Gnostics held that only the elite, the Gnostics who had had divine ecstatic experience, made up the true church and that the rest were pretenders. Christ's body, the church, was purely spiritual, and thus consisted ONLY of those who had achieved gnosis. Theodotus, a great teacvher in the Eastern school, defined the church as the "chosen race." The Western division under Ptolemy and Heracleon, disagreed. They claimed that Christ's body was made of both spiritual and unspiritual elements, thus, both Gnostics and non-Gnostics stood within the same church. A quote: "Heracleon taught that God had given them spiritual understanding for the sake of the rest - so that they would be able to teach "the many" [alluding to Jesus' saying that "many are called, but few are chosen" - the Gnostics were the chosen.] and bring them to gnosis." Ptolemy agreed that Christ combined both the non-spiritual and teh spiritual so that all may become spiritual - spiritual leavening, if you will. I think a similar role is appropriate for Theosophy. I don't fault people striving for their own spiritual enlightenment. I vehemently oppose elitism, however, and believe that all paths lead to the divine. Relative position on the road does not make a lesser or a greater person. I think avoiding pride is a good spiritual practice anyway, so pride can only set Theosophists back. Concerning your question, where does our duty lie: I don't think astral adventures and service to humanity are mutually exclusive. I know of no one who has nothing to do but hang out in the astral realm all day long. People work. Even a paper boy is serving others in his own way. Give a buck to the homeless person. Recognize that we are all one and let that person get in front of you in heavy traffic. Sure there are people on the front lines doing service to humanity in obvious ways, but there is also work to be done in the way we lead our lives and the example we set for others. I think inspiration by selfless example is worthy work, and this work is not diminished by my being a bond trader or a clerk or a bouncer. I forget what category of yoga this falls under, but the yoga of right action is one that can be lived and performed every waking moment. I believe this to be of value. Of course I'm talking about the ideal scenarios here. There are elitists in the ranks. We all have our bad days. Try and live by ahimsa (dynamic non-violence) and you'll probably come out okay. I'm saying that it's not an either/or question. Theosophy has great value to the world. People serving humanity in everday ways have great value to the world. I would even call them good theosophists, although they may not be members of the society. Some people are pursuing their own ends to the exlcusion of their duty to others. That's where they are, but that's not where everybody is. Sorry about the long-winded answer. A simple truth is always the most elegant. Take Care, Chris Moyer From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 22:57:51 -0700 From: jhe@bobo.csustan.edu (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) Subject: On Theosophy Antero Kangas AK> What is your opinion to an argument, that theosophy is a kind > of egoistic philosophy with mental training, opening chacras > and making astral adventures with a help of some gurus, > meanwhile common people are doing their best to keep the > society alive. So that instead of astral world man should do > something valuable for surrounding world. Which is more > important to you and to which for universe. This is a very interesting definition of what theosophy and a theosophist is. What is the source of information upon which this argument is based? H.P. Blavatsky's definition of a theosophist is as follows: It is easy to become a Theosophist. Any person of average intellectual capacities, and a leaning toward the metaphysical; of pure, unselfish life, who finds more joy in helping his neighbor than in receiving help himself; one who is ever ready to sacrifice his own pleasures for the sake of other people; and who loves Truth, Goodness and Wisdom for their own sake, not for the benefit they may confer--is a Theosophist. (From "Practical Occultism," ~Lucifer~, April 1888) In several of her writings, she also defines "Theosophy" as "pure altruism." So it appears that there is a rather large gap between the definition you present and that given by the founder of the modern theosophical movement. Perhaps the argument you present is meant to define something other than theosophy or a theosophist. Jerry Hejka-Ekins From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 11:42:05 +0100 From: ak@tks.oulu.fi (Antero Kangas) Subject: Re: About theosophy >It's interesting that you should pose that question now. ... Thank you for fine answer Chris, I am happy to get to read it. I wish you well. Antero Kangas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 14:01:55 +0100 From: ak@tks.oulu.fi (Antero Kangas) Subject: Earlier lives Hi dear friends I am a newcomer in the group. Maybe some member of this group could tell me the main reason why I am born here and how was my life before, where and when. My case can be handled public. What is your opinion to an argument that more you have spiritual real knowledge less you talk about it public. With respect to all creatures Antero Kangas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 16:42:45 -0400 (EDT) From: John Mead Subject: testing please respond to: jem@vnet.net IF YOU RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE!!!! thanks ! checking mailer!! peace john mead From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: 11 Jun 1994 18:44:12 EDT From: Keith Price <74024.3352@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Esoteric View of Art Main points from a longer paper: Toward a brief restatement of the synthesis of science, philosophy, religion and ART. What is art really? To answer this question we will define art, not just as a product as in the fine arts including painting, sculpture, music, and literature, but as the entire creative process. We will be painting with a broad brush so as to include art in the synthesis of all creative acts that at once evidence diversity, but at the same time point to an underlying unity. This unity, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky called theosophy as documented in THE SECRET DOCTRINE which she called the synthesis of science, philosophy and religion. We will attempt to show that art should be included in this synthesis. Some assertions about art will help in this synthesis including: 1) All art is creative intelligence manifesting itself in time in form. 2) All art is spiritual (from the lowest material plane to the highest plane) 3) All art presupposes consciouness relating to consciousness. Art relates or uncovers that which is seemingly hidden, the conciousness of one being to another or to itself. Art is the occult (consciousness itself revealed) 4) All art is co-creative, that is, it requires an artist an a participant (sender and receiver in comunnications theory). 5) the goal of art depends on the artist, but the highest art reaches and transforms consciousness at its highest level. 6) The universe itself is a work of art as process with a plan and purpose and is in progress through conscious artful (skillfull and yes, slyly clever) evolution. Blavatsky wrote very little on art as such. Leadbetter claimed to see the auras or thoughtforms around the music of Wagner and others. But theosophists tends to eschew direct discusssion of art. I think art contains science, philosophy and religion as process and points most directly to divine unity that underlies theosophy. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 23:21:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Cain Subject: Re: testingreceived test 1 2 3 I received all three tests only this one requested responce. I be there to see the Monks. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 15:55:44 +0300 (EDT) From: Aki Korhonen Subject: Abstract Essence of Art Hello Keith, I found yours introduction of the synthesis of science, philosophy, religion and art very interesting. Last winter I did a seminar paper on the subject: "Abstract Idea in Architecture". In that work I tried to define what is the essence of architecture. I also tried to form a synthesis of all artistic creation, and defined some relations between art and culture, religion and science. This is a long story but I try to come to the point as quickly as possible... First I want to introduce a theory of "subjective world view", this is a key to understand my approach to the art. I call this "subjective"- because it refers to how we comprehend the world in relation to ourselves. When we look at the world and ourselves, we see that there is the outer world and the inner world of our thoughts and feelings. So we get two levels: 1. Physical world. 2. Mental, subjective world. The mind's level is the most important, because we feel that our 'self' resides there and all our understanding, thinking and feeling is experienced there. This level is subjective, because we cannot directly feel and know what the others think and feel. When we look further, we realise that there is a third level, that is immaterial but yet objective. We can call this world 'objective' or 'the world of Ideas'. The meaning of this level is, that there are certain things that have existence with or without our personal thinking and feeling, things which are immaterial and free of change. These entities can be called ideas. An easy example of these kind of existence is mathematics, we don't make up mathematics, we discover it laws, and everybody can, and have to end to same conclusions. Also many logical structures belongs there, for example the idea of symmetry. The idea of symmetry can be said to exist even there is not any manifestation of it at the physical level... So we get, 3. Objective world of ideas. 2. Subjective world of mind. 1. Physical world. The third level is most difficult to comprehend, we can't directly look at it, but by correct thinking and by intuition we can have some experience of it. When we further examine the Objective world we can say that some ideas are definite, so that they can be described in words and by formulas, but some ideas cannot. These objective ideas that cannot be described by words I call "abstract ideas". So we can divide the objective world to two levels: abstract (or without- form) and concrete (or with- form). Here I find some correlation to the mental planes of theosophy, ruupa- and aruupa. Also we have a correlation: 1. Physical - Matter 2. Subjective - Soul 3. Objective - Spirit This somewhat long definition is essential, because, according to my opinion, the art can refer to all these levels. The first level art is called imitative art (Greek, mimesis). The second level art invokes feelings and thoughts, fine example of this kind of art is popular-, and folk-music. The third level art points to the logical structures and to abstract ideas. At the same object of art all these layers can work together. The abstract essence of art is just one projection of a certain abstract, 3rd level idea. From one idea there may be countless projections and manifestations at the physical level; the same idea can be manifested by music, sculpture, dance, painting, architecture... Also words have different meanings according to these levels, good, bad, truth, etc. have different meanings according to which levels they are used with. Word "morality", is only valid when we have its objective meaning. "Creativity" or "creative" is, by my opinion, synonym to "being awake" and anonym to "mechanical". Before you can be creative, you must act un-mechanically, and to act un- mechanically you must be awake. If we are not awake, we just live by conventions and by conventional thinking, never ever even noticing it. Peace to all creatures. Aki. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 11:38:27 +0100 From: ak@tks.oulu.fi (Antero Kangas) Subject: A question of Rebirthing Soul I have got a question of my friend. A guru is telling her that she is going to have a baby. He saw a soul which is waiting to get born to her with some another man than her husband. She is trying to find out the truth. Is it right to avoid that pregnancy or not. Perhaps you are persons who can give some advice. Antero Kangas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 20:00:35 -0400 (EDT) From: John Mead Subject: messages plugged.... I seem to be getting ALOT of replies to the "please reply" message..... The listserver seems to be working. I think removal of a BAD address (after which mailings from the e-mailer halted) may have unplugged the problem. I need names now people NOT receiving e-mail..... (as of say 6/12). plesase forward these if you know of any. Peace -- John Mead p.s. intermittent bugs are a BEAR.... p.p.s. please go see "Litle Buddha" ; it is very nicely done. (tear-jerker at points!) From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:18:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Cain Subject: Re: A question of Rebirthing SoulIs Is this a Right To Life question or a fidelity issue. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 16:04:38 +0100 From: ak@tks.oulu.fi (Antero Kangas) Subject: Re: A question of Rebirthing SoulIs >Is this a Right To Life question or a fidelity issue. Thank you for asking that. Everybody has Right To Life, but soul is already living without body. If it has right to choose the new mother, does mother knowing that right to avoid the pregnancy? I try not to mix any man made moral to this question. Antero Kangas From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 11:25:11 EDT From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Membership Numbers Last week I had a perplexing conversation with a ULT member, who said he'd been told that ULT was the largest Theosophical organization in terms of numbers. This, needless to say, was rather shocking; I blurted out that whoever told him so was deliberately lying. But later I began to wonder how educated a guess one can make with "occult" groups. My understanding of Adyar's numbers, based on conversations rather than anything read, is that there were 35,000 when I joined in 1978 and that 16 years of shrinkage has brought it down around 25,000. Demographics would suggest this will continue. Anyhow, since this TS is open about statistics I assume the number is available somewhere, maybe in the Theosophist annual report issue. As to Pasadena, they're not open about such things, but I have been told that Bruce Campbell's estimate of 1500 was low, and that the total is less than 10% of Adyar's. So this leaves us in the 2000 range. ULT, according to the guy I was talking to, claims 10,000- 20,000 worldwide. He was comparing this to Adyar membership in the US alone, which I explained was incorrect. But in my years of observing Theosophical groups here and abroad, it has always seemed that ULT was even smaller than Pasadena. Campbell estimated 1200 in 1980, and one wonders if that has shrunk. They have 22 lodges worldwide, which would have to average 450 members each to yield 10,000 worldwide. An average of 45 would be generous, I would think-- for every big lodge like NYC or LA there are many more tiny ones with 20 or fewer. So 1000 seems like a more educated guess. Does anyone have any light to shed on this? Namaste From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 07:54:14 PDT From: jcoker@eis.calstate.edu (Jessica L. Coker) Subject: CORE listserver June 15, 1994 This is from Nancy Hi guys, I really miss reading all your good notes. My list server is not planning to get things sorted out here until sometime in July. Will rejoin ASAP Bye. Nany. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 00:51:14 -0700 From: jhe@bobo.csustan.edu (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) Subject: re membership numbers Paul Johnson, Perhaps counting members in the theosophical organizations may be even more problematical than it might seem on the surface. Of course the Adyar Society is easy to estimate. They are the only ones who publish their membership statistics--and you are right, they are shrinking worldwide, and barely holding in the U.S., in spite of the fact that they have an indirect national campaign to attract members through ~Quest~ Magazine. As for the Pasadena Society, things are quite different. Information concerning membership, or even the circulation of membership of the Pasadena Society, it must be kept in mind that they are a little fussier about who joins. Unlike Adyar and U.L.T., Pasadena seems to take the step of becoming a member more seriously, because they want to know your motivations for joining. I have known people who have actually been denied membership in the Pasadena T.S., but never heard of anyone ever (in recent history) being turned down in the Adyar Society or U.L.T. Therefore, whatever Pasadena's membership is, it may be smaller than the other two, but they also seem to be more selective. As for U.L.T., you estimated membership by multiplying the number of Lodges by the average membership in a Lodge. However, it is likely that the majority of the membership is not involved with a Lodge. (After all, 60% of the American Section Adyar T.S. are unattached members.) In order to be affiliated with U.L.T., all you have to do is fill out a card. Theoretically, you are a member for life, even if you never step into another Lodge again. How many people have attended a meeting or two and decided not to be involved with a Lodge, or perhaps live in an area where there is no Lodge? Or perhaps signing their application was the last theosophical action they ever took. For U.L.T., there may be quite a lot that fall into one of these categories. All things considered, it is very possible that U.L.T. may indeed have 10 to 20 thousand affiliates worldwide, even if only a thousand or so are active in the Lodges. Another consideration has to do with dues. Adyar is the only Organization to collect them. That makes accountability of membership easy. If you miss paying your dues in the Adyar (American Section) Society, they stop sending you the ~American Theosophist~ and you go on the inactive list. Consequently, the turnover in the American Section Adyar T.S. is somewhere around 98% (that is about 98 out of 100 don't renew their membership in the first three years. I don't know the loss in the other sections of the Adyar T.S., but I suspect a similar picture. But that begs the question as to how meaningful membership counts may be. My guess is that there are a significant number of members in all three organizations who may be completely inactive, or lost any real interest in the Organization, yet may still have quasi theosophical interests--this may be especially true in the Pasadena Society and U.L.T. But even in the Adyar T.S., I knew a woman who became completely opposed to the Organization philosophically six months after joining it, and would not participate in a Lodge. Yet she maintained an at-large membership for twenty years, solely out of respect for the fact that they were keeping H.P.B.'s Collected Writings in print. Though, she may be an exception, I have met many others who do not participate in the Adyar T.S., yet maintain a membership out of respect for the three objects. So, a more meaningful question for me would be: How many people are there in the world who are students of theosophy and practice its tenets as a way of life, regardless of their membership or non-membership in a theosophical Organization? Frankly, some of the most knowledgeable students of theosophy I have ever met were not members of any theosophical Organization. My guess is that if such a count could be taken, it would be a very small group indeed. Peace Jerry Hejka-Ekins From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 07:04:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Cain Subject: Re: test again(:-) Test! Test! I stayed up all night cramming for this! I crammed Orios, Milk Duds, Brownies. Hope I passed!! From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 16:32:16 EDT From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Anyone Home? I've posted a couple of messages which never appeared in my mailbox; neither has anything else for over a week. Are you there? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 18:29:31 -0400 (EDT) From: IXCHEL@delphi.com Subject: Doing lunch Jerry H-E, I am still very interested in following your seminar which I believe you said starts tomorrow the 18th. I will be leaving town on or about the 22nd, so anything that can be reported before that will be greatly appre- ciated. I will also do my best to communicate with who ever will be doing the reporting so that they and you will know your efforts are being received. I do have a keen interest in the principles and have some thoughts to share on the subject eventually. I am excited about tomorrow although I am far away in the heart of Texas. If you are not too busy perhaps you can let me know if you have received this message and about when do you think I might receive the first report. Thankfully, Sarah From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 23:02:24 -0700 From: jhe@koko.csustan.edu (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) Subject: doing lunch Sarah, I'll try to write up a brief report, over the weekend, at least giving my impressions, and covering the highlights. Perhaps we can tape record it too--we'll see what the participants want to do. We are also interested in your thoughts on the principles and look forward to what you have to share. Best Jerry Hejka-Ekins From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 16:50:04 -0500 From: Arvind Kumar Subject: Absence Hi John, This is to acknowledge the receipt of your test message. I have been meaning to write for a while (I still owe a response to Jerry H-E's last message on AAB/HPB) but things at work have really left me with no time to do anything else. The team for which I am responsible at work has been given additional responsibilities (and orders to double in size by hiring more people asap). Also, I got wrapped up with the preparation for our trip to India (my daughter left a week ago, I am leaving on July 6 and will be back on July 29). Last but not the least, I have been rather greatly preoccupied with reading one of the books that Elisabeth (the Olcott Librarian) sent me by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. It is called "I AM THAT" and it is the best book that I have read on practical spirituality so far! Many parts of the HPB/Bailey books are not easy to decipher but this particular book is very simply written yet contains some of the most profound statements that I have ever seen in print! And the utter simplicity and earnestness of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj makes me burst into almost uncontrolled laughter and crying. It is just superb. I'll hope to post at least one more message before I leave for India. Anyone with any questions/comments, esp. about Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, please feel free to send them to me. Best Wishes/Arvind From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 20:30:10 -0400 (EDT) From: John Mead Subject: Tibetan Sacred Song/Dance - Charlotte, NC ----------- News Bulletin --------- The Charlotte Theosophical Society will be sponsoring the Tibetan Monks in an evening of Sacred Song and Dance this June 20 from 8pm-10pm. If you live in the Charlotte area (either Carolinas) and wish more information, please send your request for more information to: John Mead (Charlotte Theosophical Society) jem@vnet.net I'll announce further details as they materialize. Most proceeds will go to help the Tibetan Refugees in India.... From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 08:30:14 -0700 From: t_msapos@qualcomm.com (M.Sapos(X3019)) Subject: Re: Tibetan Sacred Song/Dance - Charlotte, NC Is there any chance this will come to San Diego? They were here once= before but I missed them. Any information will help Thanks in advance Michael Sapos Qualcomm Inc. Corporate Telecom Dept. 6455 Lusk Blvd. San Diego, CA 92121=20 Phone: (619)658-3019 From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 11:24:09 EDT From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Lost in Space For some reason I'm not getting any mail from theos-l, buds, roots, or news. Although I'm trying to get this straightened out, in the meantime, if anyone has posted anything relevant to me please forgive me for not responding. If anyone had an answer re relative membership numbers, I'd appreciate a direct e-mail response. BTW the guy I talked to about this said in a followup note that an old-time ULT member cited 15,000-20,000 members worldwide! And said that Greenwalt, in California Utopia, had said that ULT was bigger than Pasadena or Adyar. Surely this is a misunderstanding; when I read the book such an assertion would have stood out and not been forgotten. Maybe what he wrote was that ULT was the biggest offshoot of Pasadena-- in other words bigger than Temple of the People? From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 13:00:06 EDT From: "K. Paul Johnson" Subject: Old Business Hello Everyone-- Thanks to instructions from Brenda I was able to read the last three weeks' worth of postings, which haven't made it to my mailbox. Thanks to Lewis and Jerry H-E for commenting on Cyril Scott. BTW I don't leave out Besant, Leadbeater, Purucker, etc., but rather put them all in the intro as people whose claims to initiatory contact with the Masters are worth mentioning, but don't lend themselves to historical investigation in the way that the initiations of Damodar, David-Neel, Gurdjieff etc. do. Scott I think can be left out with no harm to the book. His relations with K.H. don't seem to have done him much good. The funniest passage in Bone of Contention claims that one of the main activities of the Dark Brotherhood was inspiring music critics to say mean and unfair things about poor pitiful composers who were the instruments of the Great White Brotherhood. As a public librarian, here's my equivalent: one of the main activities of the Brothers of the Shadow is inspiring people not to return their library books. Each of you could come up with your own personal goofy equivalent. Hoping to be back with you soon. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 18:24:38 -0700 From: jhe@bobo.csustan.edu (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) Subject: Seminar Report Sarah, The seminar went well, though in four hours of presentation time, we were only able to do one and a half presentations--John Shafer's presentation, and half of mine. We have decided to continue the seminar next month in Oakland, where I will finish my presentation and Christina Zubelli will give hers. By that time, John Shafer should have more material to report on his topic. After lunch, Saturday, John Shafer presented the first report. His was on the seven principles from the Greek perspective. Among the points he discussed were: The relationship of 1, 7 and 10 in the Tetraktys; The relationship of numbers to the Divine--being a comparison of the ideas of Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle on this subject; The relationship between number, geometry, music and astrology concerning space and time; the relationship between number and color. My presentation was on H.P.B.'s teachings concerning the seven principles from a historical perspective. My main objective was to show how she laid ground work by getting across basic ideas in her earlier works and building upon them in order to make understood more complex ideas discussed in her later writings. I also discussed the influence of Sinnett's ~Esoteric Buddhism~ upon the thinking of theosophical students and the complications that arose out of that presentation, when H.P.B. tried to give more advanced teachings. I also touched upon the background of the "debate" between Subba Row and H.P.B. concerning the system Sinnett gave out, trying to clear up some misconceptions concerning it (Christina Zubelli will give an in depth presentation on Subba Row at the next meeting). Finally, I began to discuss some of the more abstruse teachings concerning the seven principles in the E.S. Instructions, concentrating on issues most misunderstood. But this will be where I will begin the next meeting. Christina Zubelli will also be giving a presentation of Subba Row's teachings and the "debate" between him and H.P.B. I hope that is what you were looking for. Best Jerry Hejka-Ekins From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 02:16:42 -0400 (EDT) From: John Mead Subject: Re: Anyone Home? HI -- We seem to be having some intermittent problems. I was hosting some Monks this week, but should have time to work on it now! Peace -- John Mead From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 23:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: IXCHEL@delphi.com Subject: more lunch Jerry H-E, Thank you for the report. John Shafer's report seems to be very interesting. Was it tape recorded? If so, I would like to eventually read it on theos-l. Somehow I feel that theo- sophy is served best if kept up to date with new views on old subjects. I am most fascinated with your topic: H.P.B.'s ground work leading to more complex ideas. In the short time I have been reading and studying the materials presented though the Theosophical Society, it is H.P.B.'s purpose and in- fluence that intrigues me the most. I believe that she was the holder of much information that has yet to be tru- ly understood. I put myself out on a limb when I say that even H.P.B. was limited in her understanding of some of the knowledge she possessed. For example: In some of her writ- ings her emotional state of being appears to be out of bal- ance. I have heard many reasons for this including an ex- planation from the Masters themselves; something about not having all her principles in tact. Coming from outside the caccoon of the Theosophical Society's paradigms, I feel I can take advantage of this great body of knowledge with- out romanticizing any particular person who holds a prominent place in T.S. history. All the answers are there among the books. They are like pieces of a puzzle yet to be fitted to- gether. I am curious indeed to see the extent of your know- ledge concerning the whole picture. Is it possible for you to tape record your presentation on the more abstruse teach- ings concerning the seven principles in the E.S. Instuc- tions? Please let me know as soon as possible as I will be out of the country for two months and would be very dis- appointed if I missed this event. I am sharing this informa- tion I receive through theos-l with Joyce Mc David who lives here in San Antonio. She is very interested in your activi- ties as well. I hope that in time I will be able to give you more of my thoughts on this subject of the seven prin- ciples. Much depends on your taking the lead by revealing more of your thoughts. Was your presentation recorded? If so, how will I be able to hear it? Thank you again..Sarah From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 17:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: eldon@netcom.com (Eldon B. Tucker) Subject: part3 This is by Brenda Tucker. It is part three of a several part speech from 1991. (From Robert Carter's THE TAO OF MOTHER GOOSE) THE TRUTH OF AN IDEA CANNOT BE CONFINED TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF ITS ORIGIN. OCCASIONALLY WE ALL SPEAK MORE THAN WE KNOW, AND SO IT MAY MATTER LESS WHERE THE RHYMES COME FROM AND WHAT WAS THEIR INTENT THAN WHAT WE MAY GAIN FROM CONSIDERING THEM. THE TRUTH OR FALSITY OF ANY THEORY IS SUBJECT TO CONFIRMATION OR REJECTION BY YOU, THE LISTENER, AT A PURELY INTUITIVE AND EXPERIENTIAL LEVEL. WE TEND TO LEARN ONLY WHAT WE KNOW, AND CANNOT LEARN WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW. WHEN A FAMILIAR SPARK OF RECOGNITION IS LIT WITHIN US, WE CANNOT BE DISSUADED FROM ITS TRUTH. OUR MINDS MAY BE TURNED AWAY BY ARGUMENT, BUT NEVER AT THE DEEPER INNER LEVEL WHERE WE LIVE. BOTH SETS OF VERSES SEEM TO BE ADDRESSED TO THAT DEEPER LEVEL. Hush a by Baby - The tree is symbolical of the Tree of Life and Death. The tree becomes a cross. If you remember, it was where Adam was buried that Seth planted a twig from the tree of Paradise, which became Christ's Cross. In this rhyme we traverse life from being tucked into a cradle to being tucked into a coffin. The particular becomes the universal, the universal is rooted in the particular - Not Two and Not One, not separate and not the same. This lesson is also a lesson of the Tao. (See verse 2 found later in part 3.) Most people can't explain the message, but at an unconscious level and within the symbols, the message is present. Within the rhyme is security but at the disturbance of the wind there is a fall. This rhyme covers the years from 0-20. Humpty Dumpty - The egg is a biological form, etc. to symbolize wholeness, dome of sky, dome of Church (Freud said this first). The world comes from a cosmic egg, according to traditions of Egyptian, Hinduism, Buddhism, Plato, Greek and Roman myths, and according to this symbol of birth at Easter. All of humanity's collective and social efforts, their group efforts, are not enough to restore us to union with God. The forces seeking restoration are of two kinds, both powers of the king. These are the horses and the men, symbolizing the intuitive and rational energy. (The horse could actually be either.) We are experiencing that there are "not two" just as the Knight of Faith does when he becomes no one separate. All our efforts fail and we cannot restore Humpty, so put no faith in these. Present with this rhyme is an underlying mention of the gifts of intellect and emotion. The Knight of Resignation on the other hand is irreversibly and irreconcilably split apart. Verses 64, 2, and 7 (Wise Man) from the TAO TE CHING: Verse 64 Peace is easily maintained; Trouble is easily overcome before it starts. The brittle is easily shattered; The small is easily scattered. Deal with it before it happens. Set things in order before there is confusion. A tree as great as a man's embrace springs from a small shoot; A terrace nine stories high begins with a pile of earth; A journey of a thousand miles starts under one's feet. He who acts defeats his own purpose; He who grasps loses. The sage does not act, and so is not defeated. He does not grasp and therefore does not lose. People usually fail when they are on the verge of success. So give as much care to the end as to the beginning; Then there will be no failure. Therefore the sage seeks freedom from desire. He does not collect precious things. He learns not to hold on to ideas. He brings men back to what they have lost. He helps the ten thousand things find their own nature, But refrains from action. Verse 2 Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness. All can know good as good only because there is evil. Therefore having and not having arise together. Difficult and easy complement each other. Long and short contrast each other; High and low rest upon each other; Voice and sound harmonize each other; Front and back follow one another. Therefore the sage goes about doing nothing, teaching no-talking. The ten thousand things rise and fall without cease, Creating, yet not possessing, Working, yet not taking credit. Work is done, then forgotten. Therefore it lasts forever. Verse 7 Heaven and earth last forever. Why do heaven and earth last forever? They are unborn, So ever living. The sage stays behind, thus he is ahead. He is detached, thus at one with all. Through selfless action, he attains fulfillment. Mary had a Little Lamb Mary had a little lamb, Its fleece was white as snow; And everywhere that Mary went The lamb was sure to go. It followed her to school one day, That was against the rule; It made the children laugh and play, To see a lamb in school. And so the teacher turned it out, But still it lingered near, And waited patiently about Till Mary did appear. Why does the lamb love Mary so? The eager children cry; Why, Mary loves the lamb, you know, The teacher did reply. Mary had a Little Lamb manifests gentleness, trustfulness and other Christian virtues. The lamb is either accompanied by or embodied by the purity of the essence of oneness - in humans this is portrayed as humility, holy simplicity, and patience. Mary maintains her purity and innocence until she is ready to go to school and then the children are amazed at this unstained condition and the teacher helps to toss it out. The moral being that school seldom nurtures our souls. It discourages daydreaming which may be meditation. Fortunately, our "lambs" too may be waiting when we finish school. Little Bo Peep Little Bo-peep has lost her sheep, And can't tell where to find them: Let them alone, and they'll come home, And bring their tails behind them. Little Bo-peep fell fast asleep, And dreamt she heard them bleating: But when she awoke, she found it a joke, For they were still all fleeting. Then up she took her little crook, Determin'd for to find them; She found them indeed, but it made her heart bleed, For they'd left their tails behind 'em. It happen'd one day, as Bo-peep did stray, Into a meadow hard by; That she espy'd their tails side by side, All hung on a tree to dry. She heav'd a sigh and wip'd her eye, And over the hills went stump-o And tried what she cou'd, as a shepherdess shou'd, To tack each again to its rump-o. Little Bo Peep has been found printed in 1810, and a game of that name: bopeep was played in 1364. (Also you may be reminded of peek a boo or hide and go seek.) Bo-peep is older and more responsible than a young child. The advice we find here is renunciation, in order to allow the motion of the Tao to flow through Little Bo Peep. Since she is so conscious, she ignores her dream and ignores the advice and just sets out to DO it. She succeeds, but they are mutilated. But Bo Peep upon wandering sees upon a tree what it is the sheep are missing. She returns with them and tries to restore the sheep (or to repair her neglected and abused soul.) If you refer to verse 64 given above, you will see how "care given to the end" is an important step on the road to completion. Verses 37, 63, 57, and 48 are relevant. Verse 37 Tao abides in non-action, Yet nothing is left undone. If kings and lords observed this, The ten thousand things would develop naturally. If they still desired to act, They would return to the simplicity of formless substance. Without form there is no desire. Without desire there is tranquility. And in this way all things would be at peace. Verse 63 Practice non-action. Work without doing. Taste the tasteless. Magnify the small, increase the few. Reward bitterness with care. See simplicity in the complicated. Achieve greatness in little things. In the universe the difficult things are done as if they are easy. In the universe great acts are made up of small deeds. The sage does not attempt anything very big, And thus achieves greatness. Easy promises make for little trust. Taking things lightly results in great difficulty. Because the sage always confronts difficulties, He never experiences them. Verse 57 Rule a nation with justice. Wage war with surprise moves. Become master of the universe without striving. How do I know that this is so? Because of this! The more laws and restrictions there are, The poorer people become. The sharper men's weapons, The more trouble in the land. The more ingenious and clever men are, The more strange things happen. The more rules and regulations, The more thieves and robbers. Therefore the sage says: I take no action and people are reformed. I enjoy peace and people become honest. I do nothing and people become rich. I have no desires and people return to the good and simple life. Verse 48 In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired. In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped. Less and less is done Until non-action is achieved. When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering. Little Boy Blue - This rhyme refers to Cardinal Thomas (1475-1530), and it may have been taken from King Lear. The symbols are a male shepherd, the color blue, a horn, and sleeping under a haystack. Christianly, blue is the color of devotion. A haystack or cosmic mountain, like the tree, unites the heavenly and the earthly. Whatever lies underneath it is hidden. In this case, a divine child is buried and hidden within the unconscious. He has let his conscious activity go for a time in order that he may study the divine in the unconscious. He has entered a higher state, the all embracing nature of psychic wholeness, according to Jung. The eternal child - boy blue - is all that is exposed and abandoned and divinely powerful. The author calls the eternal child in man an indescribable experience, one with incongruity, handicap, and divine prerogative. This experience is how we determine the ultimate worth or worthlessness of a personality. He won't be awakened and it is out of fear - a warning about psychic dangers which may become involved in awakening the Divine Child within. The rhyme is a description of the sleeping savior, his function as shepherd of the instinctive forces within the soul, and a description of his secret location - buried within the unconscious. There is a gentle warning of the difficulties that may be encountered in awakening him. Little Boy Blue Little Boy Blue, come blow your horn, The cow's in the meadow, the sheep in the corn: But where is the little boy tending the sheep? He's under the hay-cock fast asleep. Will you wake him? No, not I, For if I do, he's sure to cry. Children see a search for a special child, the only one who can take charge of the animals, and he has extraordinary powers!! A child they can find, too, if they only look "under the haystack". Peter and the Pumpkin - Here we have two figures, a pair, and they are two wives. The wives are aspects of Peter. The first wife is elusive until she is confined. The second is not loved, until Peter has learned to read and spell. The pumpkin is a friendly symbol which frightens away evil. It is used in Cinderella, a story from the ninth Century Chinese, which is associated with tiny foot size. The pumpkin is vegetal, though not tree, or animal when seen as a symbol of the Great Mother (nature). Peter eats nature (or through this act is linked with a portion of his own unconscious), but then his first wife is an aspect of the unconscious which proves elusive. When he rightfully places her, he is then able to deal with her. His second wife represents budding, but undeveloped consciousness. Peter is partially unconscious and pre-conscious. He finds the conscious mind alluring as is also the unconscious. Peter, Peter, Pumpkin Eater Peter, Peter, pumpkin eater, Had a wife and couldn't keep her; He put her in a pumpkin shell And there he kept her very well. Peter, Peter, pumpkin eater, Had another, and didn't lover her; Peter learned to read and spell, And then he loved her very well. Jack and Jill Jack and Gill Went up the Hill, To fetch a Pail of Water; Jack fell down And broke his Crown, And Gill came tumbling after. Up Jack got, and home did trot, As fast as he could caper, To old Dame Dob, who patched his nob, With vinegar and brown paper. When Gill came in, how she did grin, To see Jack's paper plaster; Dame Dob, vexed, did whip her next For causing Jack's disaster. Jack and Jill - These rhymes may not be modern, but they are accurate symbolically. There is an ancient Scandinavian story about Hjuki - to increase and Bil - to dissolve. These represent phases of the moon as these were performed by the man in the moon - Mani. Carrying water relates to the tides connection with the moon and this must have been known from very early times. What would a myth of the tides be in terms of conscious and unconscious? Water on top of a hill must be special. Water sometimes represents the Tao or the unconscious as found in Verses 4 and 78. Well in fairy tales water is a gate to the underworld and the domain of earth mother. The hill is a link or path between heaven and earth. Two opposite forces, Yin and Yang, exist within a sea of the unconscious. At any rate the two fail in gathering the unconscious or water, Jack breaks his crown - the highest center of consciousness, and Jill tumbles after. Jack is taken care of, and Jill for teasing him is whipped by old woman. Are the two women competing for Jack? Should he fail in journey to the Tao, the solace of a mother is awaiting his return. Should Jill fare better than her friend, it won't be for long as Dame Dobb is out to even the score. Verse 4 The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled. Oh, unfathomable source of ten thousand things! Blunt the sharpness, Untangle the knot, Soften the glare, Merge with dust. Oh, hidden deep but ever present! I do not know from whence it comes. It is the forefather of the emperors. Verse 78 Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water. Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better; It has no equal. The weak can overcome the strong; The supple can overcome the stiff. Under heaven everyone knows this, Yet no one puts it into practice. Therefore the sage says: He who takes upon himself the humiliation of the people is fit to rule them. He who takes upon himself the country's disasters deserves to be king of the universe. The truth often sounds paradoxical. As nursery rhymes contain heros and monsters, so these become Gods and Devils. In childhood, God is unnecessary. Where there is sufficient inner richness, the barest and simplest external symbol will do its work. Where there is inner poverty, as in some adults, an outward symbol needs to be flamboyant, emboldened, and magnified to make itself felt. An adult may not even notice symbols that are fully evident to children in nursery rhymes. A favorite symbol like the tree, while living, timeless, and complete within the psyche, requires only a bare outward form to make the inner emblazoned tree spring to life. When our inner tree is shriveled and dying, then we require all the richness of visual detail, and all the accurately observed texture, color, number of leaves, twigs, branches, and trunk reproduced faithfully for us to once again experience something of the tree we have lost or never had. Next time, we look at some information on monsters. Robert Carter, in most cases, uses the earliest printed version of the rhyme. I did find a book in the bookstore which contains frequently the same version (with only slight differences) of the rhymes as he prefers them, which sometimes just means additional verses. It is Eric Kincaid's MOTHER GOOSE CLASSIC NURSERY RHYMES, published by Brimax Books, England, 1988, and beautifully illustrated, if anyone is interested. The TAO TE CHING verses are not Robert Carter's versions. They are the translation mentioned earlier by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English, Vintage Books (Random House), 1972. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 11:53:44 -0500 From: Arvind Kumar Subject: Way Beyond AAB/HPB Hi, I had sent this message on Friday, but I see that the last part of it got cut off. So after a slight modification, here it goes again. Content-Length: 2843 Jerry H-E, This is probably one of my last if not the last communication on theos-l or roots before I leave for India on July 6. On or about July 1, I plan to unsubscribe from theos-l/roots/buds/news so as to keep the mailfiles from overflowing during my absence. I can still be reached at 214 997 0613 (Ofc) or at exuaxk@exu.ericsson.se till July 6. It took me a while to get back to you this time due to the somewhat changed circumstances of my life coupled with the fact that I am increasingly under the influence of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj whose teaching I find to be way beyond anything else that I have read so far. His views I believe echo Advaitya Vedanta although his teaching is atonce practical (requires only practice, no reading of books). 'I AM THAT' is the title of the book which I am currently reading. It is published by ACORN Press of USA. > > AK> As far as I know, the description of the ceremony involving > > the Lord Buddha is only in AAB's own writing, and is not a part > > of one of the DK books. > > Would you mind saving me a bit of time and list those books > that are supposed to have been exclusively by DK? The Soul and its Mechanism, From Intellect to Intuition, From Bethlehem to Calvary, The Consciousness of the Atom, and The Unfinished Autobiography were written by AAB herself. Initiation, Human and Solar Letters on Occult Meditation A treatise on Cosmic Fire, and a number of other books listed in your copy of TCF are written by DK. The Light of the Soul is paraphrased by DK, with commentary by AAB. > > When you go to India this summer, I suggest that you pick up > a copy of ~H.P.B. Teaches~ edited by Michael Gomes. It is just a > single volume in an orange cover, and not available in the U.S. > It is a collection of her more important articles, and they were > very nicely annotated. I think you will find it very much worth > having, even though you plan to get the Collected Writings later. > H.P.B.'s articles to the members there, since her Collected > Writings are not available for sale in India. > I read this book, thanks to the Olcott Library and Elisabeth Trumpler. And I thank you very much for your suggestion. I am also looking at some unanswered questions/comments from you regarding full moon and new moon meditations etc. To be perfectly honest with you, I have lost all interest in that now and 'd like to forego any discussion along those lines! Indeed I have lost interest in discussing AAB or HPB or any of the other authors or teachers except Sri N. Maharaj! Yes, my interests have changed rather drastically during the past couple of months. I want to end this by thanking you and others on this listserv for your time and effort in helping me to learn and grow, Fraternally, Arvind From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 11:46:38 -0400 From: Arvind Kumar Subject: Beyond AAB/HPB Jerry H-E, This is probably one of my last if not the last communication on theos-l or roots before I leave for India on July 6. On or about July 1, I plan to unsubscribe from theos-l/roots/buds/news so as to keep the mailfiles from overflowing during my absence. I can still be reached at 214 997 0613 (Ofc) or at exuaxk@exu.ericsson.se till July 6. It took me a while to get back to you this time due to the somewhat changed circumstances of my life coupled with the fact that I am increasingly under the influence of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj whose teaching I find to be way beyond anything else that I have read so far. His views I believe echo Advaitya Vedanta although his teaching is atonce practical (requires only practice, no reading of books). 'I AM THAT' is the title of the book which I am currently reading. It is published by ACORN Press of USA. > > AK> As far as I know, the description of the ceremony involving > > the Lord Buddha is only in AAB's own writing, and is not a part > > of one of the DK books. > > Would you mind saving me a bit of time and list those books > that are supposed to have been exclusively by DK? The Consciousness of the Atom, The Soul and its Mechanism, From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 12:57:40 -0400 From: Arvind Kumar Subject: Way Beyond AAB/HPB Hi, I had sent this message on Friday, but I see that the last part of it got cut off. So after a slight modification, here it goes again. Content-Length: 2843 Jerry H-E, This is probably one of my last if not the last communication on theos-l or roots before I leave for India on July 6. On or about July 1, I plan to unsubscribe from theos-l/roots/buds/news so as to keep the mailfiles from overflowing during my absence. I can still be reached at 214 997 0613 (Ofc) or at exuaxk@exu.ericsson.se till July 6. It took me a while to get back to you this time due to the somewhat changed circumstances of my life coupled with the fact that I am increasingly under the influence of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj whose teaching I find to be way beyond anything else that I have read so far. His views I believe echo Advaitya Vedanta although his teaching is atonce practical (requires only practice, no reading of books). 'I AM THAT' is the title of the book which I am currently reading. It is published by ACORN Press of USA. > > AK> As far as I know, the description of the ceremony involving > > the Lord Buddha is only in AAB's own writing, and is not a part > > of one of the DK books. > > Would you mind saving me a bit of time and list those books > that are supposed to have been exclusively by DK? The Soul and its Mechanism, From Intellect to Intuition, From Bethlehem to Calvary, The Consciousness of the Atom, and The Unfinished Autobiography were written by AAB herself. Initiation, Human and Solar Letters on Occult Meditation A treatise on Cosmic Fire, and a number of other books listed in your copy of TCF are written by DK. The Light of the Soul is paraphrased by DK, with commentary by AAB. > When you go to India this summer, I suggest that you pick up > a copy of ~H.P.B. Teaches~ edited by Michael Gomes. It is just a > single volume in an orange cover, and not available in the U.S. > It is a collection of her more important articles, and they were > very nicely annotated. I think you will find it very much worth > having, even though you plan to get the Collected Writings later. > H.P.B.'s articles to the members there, since her Collected > Writings are not available for sale in India. I read this book, thanks to the Olcott Library and Elisabeth Trumpler. And I thank you very much for your suggestion. I am also looking at some unanswered questions/comments from you regarding full moon and new moon meditations etc. To be perfectly honest with you, I have lost all interest in that now and 'd like to forego any discussion along those lines! Indeed I have lost interest in discussing AAB or HPB or any of the other authors or teachers except Sri N. Maharaj! Yes, my interests have changed rather drastically during the past couple of months. I want to end this by thanking you and others on this listserv for your time and effort in helping me to learn and grow, Fraternally, Arvind From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 19:51:55 -0700 (PDT) From: eldon@netcom.com (Eldon B. Tucker) Subject: part4 This is by Brenda Tucker and is the last Part, Part 4, to a 1991 speech. Can monsters be caused by internal forces? Or do they only exist without? Is the outer monster caused, created and projected by internal forces? This is not a simplistic question. There is no either/or answer to this question. This type of question is the reason why physics has turned to chance as an influence in causation. Probability is being discussed rather than laws. The scientists ask what can chance produce? A monster is known as a life-threatening force. It may produce the death of the ego. If there is a state of bliss beyond common realization, so it necessarily follows that monsters exist in a realm beyond our ordinary senses. Nicety nice, saccharine- coated, well-meant children's publications overlook this. They prefer to keep the monsters hidden and subsequently the monster in every child becomes more deeply buried in the unconscious. By not equipping the child with practice exercises, the child may be rendered helpless in the face of his worst anxieties. So we should show children ways to overcome the monsters in life. A monster is depicted as a life threatening force. It is a very real and important part of childhood. A child should even know himself as a monster of which he can then gain mastery. Without this, he remains helpless with his worst anxieties. It is better not to have the monster lie hidden in the unconscious. The Senoi people of Malaysia, as researched by Patricia Garfield, are reported to have no neurosis and psychosis existent among them. They are taught that they can only be hurt if they run. They are also told that they can control the actions in dreams. They must not flee, but must advance and confront any threatening creatures. They can ask spirits or friends for help. They can kill or befriend a monster, but in either case they learn confronting and subduing, even to the point of requiring a gift from the monster. The gift is something that is then brought into waking consciousness, a poem, story, song or dance, a design, painting or some other beautiful thing, even something useful like an invention or a solution to a problem. The gift is something of value by social consensus. The Miss Muffet nursery rhyme is an example of the opposite encounter in which Miss Muffet tries to flee. As Miss Muffet gets older, the very essence of spiderness lives within her for she has reacted by running away. When we recognize life as being like two sides of a single coin containing longing or desire and fear or repulsion, (also life and death) and when we recognize that we are being bound by desire (or fear) and are only capable of seeing the outer form, then we are on the road to learning the need for an insight, something present only in eyes unclouded by longing or fear. (See Verse 2, TAO TE CHING.) In both forms of attachment, it is desire which prevents the successful communion with God, and the successful use of knowledge in dealing with our conflicts and rewards. Desire only exists in the duality of an object and subject. Desire for oneness is the highest and noblest human goal, and it is also the source of our deepest frustration. Any attempts at making known the unknown are self-defeating. If you present specific problems to the unconscious, and then wait for the solution to return from the unconscious, you are making use of both aspects of the self. So do you want to learn about the divine fool or the wise man? Even the Tao is characterized as less! Verses 45 and 14. Buddha, Socrates, and Christ were rebels and eccentrics. Socrates realized he knew nothing, and gained through recognizing his own ignorance (verse 71) Verse 45 Great accomplishment seems imperfect, Yet it does not outlive its usefulness. Great fullness seems empty, Yet it cannot be exhausted. Great straightness seems twisted. Great intelligence seems stupid. Great eloquences seems awkward. Movement overcomes cold. Stillness overcomes heat. Stillness and tranquillity set things in order in the universe. Verse 14 Look it cannot be seen - it is beyond form. Listen, it cannot be heard - it is beyond sound. Grasp, it cannot be held - it is intangible. These three are indefinable; Therefore they are joined in one. *From above it is not bright; *From below it is not dark: An unbroken thread beyond description. It returns to nothingness. The form of the formless, The image of the imageless, It is called indefinable and beyond imagination. Stand before it and there is no beginning. Follow it and there is no end. Stay with the ancient Tao, Move with the present. Knowing the ancient beginning is the essence of Tao. Verse 71 Knowing ignorance is strength. Ignoring knowledge is sickness. If one is sick of sickness, then one is not sick. The sage is not sick because he is sick of sickness. Therefore he is not sick. As Christ said, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Each of these three wise men: Buddha, Socrates, and Christ, taught selflessness and humility and so does the TAO TE CHING, but they were not able to accomplish their goals without renunciation. Christ spent 40 days in the wilderness, Buddha gave six years of life as an ascetic before he sat down with an absolute determination to gain enlightenment or never to rise again from the spot. Mad men in nursery rhymes have been condemned to foolishness - gone out to sea in a bowl, let out of hell, caught fishes in other men's ditches. Similarly, wise men of the Tao go unmurmuring to places men despise, want the unwanted, and study what others neglect. See Verse 64 from Part 3, and Verse 8 below. Verse 8 The highest good is like water. Water gives life to the ten thousand things and does not strive. It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao. In dwelling, be close to the land. In meditation, go deep in the heart. In dealing with others, be gentle and kind. In speech, be true. In ruling, be just. In business, be competent. In action, watch the timing. No fight: No blame. It's the Knight of Faith who can catch the uncatchable, much like Simple Simon fishing in a pail. Have you seen the Zen person fishing in a gourd in a painting? Are these really our clues on how to grasp the ungraspable, trap the infinite in a finite place? Or are they a final tribute to sickness which inspires the determination to persevere to the very end? Rhymes act as a bridge from the I-Thou relationship to the I-it relationship with the world. It is a child's first formal education into the structured, established, and regular conventions. A bridge between the unconscious or preconscious state to the waking consciousness of an adult. Rhymes seem to refer collectively to an original, but lost, state of psychic wholeness. They may be of help in depicting a state's location in the unconscious, or in describing a loss, and likewise helpful in indicating the path to regaining what has been lost and achieving the return to integration. IF nursery rhymes are for early childhood, the TAO TE CHING is right for our midlife, an initiatory experience founded in consciousness and reaching toward the unknown. Midlife is the time of life when desire for action and the desire for intellectual and physical powers have passed their peak and are starting to weaken. (Verse 41.) Great powers come late, great music is soft sound. Verse 41 The wise student hears of the Tao and practices it diligently. The average student hears of the Tao and gives it thought now and again. The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud. If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is. Hence it is said: The bright path seems dim; Going forward seems like retreat; The easy way seems hard; The highest Virtue seems empty; Great purity seems sullied; A wealth of Virtue seems inadequate; The strength of Virtue seems frail; Real Virtue seems unreal; The perfect square has no corners; Great talents ripen late; The highest notes are hard to hear; The greatest form has no shape. The Tao is hidden and without name. The Tao alone nourishes and brings everything to fulfillment. In order for the world to achieve unity, the East must maturely face the west and vice versa. An integration of the two traditions is first taking place at a microcosmic level, individually in the lives of people in both worlds. Krishnamurti sees this transformation as the only lasting revolution. If inner transformation involving psychic integration can be accomplished, the individual avoids the difficulty of temporary symptomatic learned solutions. TAO TE CHING and nursery rhymes are directed toward the psychic wholeness of the individual. They are a coming together of Yin and Yang, God and man, adult and child. Verse 54. Verse 54 What is firmly established cannot be uprooted. What is firmly grasped cannot slip away. It will be honored from generation to generation. Cultivate Virtue in your self, And Virtue will be real. Cultivate it in the family, And Virtue will abound. Cultivate it in the village, And Virtue will grow. Cultivate it in the nation, And Virtue will be abundant. Cultivate it in the universe, And Virtue will be everywhere. Therefore look at the body as body; Look at the family as family; Look at the village as village; Look at the nation as nation; Look at the universe as universe. How do I know the universe is like this? By looking! This cryptic, paradoxical language in the world's religious teachings lure us beyond the sensible world into the sea of the unconscious where dwells the Tao. To get there, we are forced to let go of the safe, familiar haven we know and plunge headlong into the abyss, the wilderness. We there encounter adventures and horrors unimagined before we meet the Tao. Paradoxically, the end of the search must be our own extinction, death is required before the secret may be found. See Verse 16. Christ instructs us to "be perfect, even as God is perfect for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Verse 16 Empty yourself of everything. Let the mind rest at peace. The ten thousand things rise and fall while the Self watches their return. They grow and flourish and then return to the source. Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature. The way of nature is unchanging. Knowing constancy is insight. Not knowing constancy leads to disaster. Knowing constancy, the mind is open. With an open mind, you will be openhearted. Being openhearted, you will act royally. Being royal, you will attain the divine. Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao. Being at one with the Tao is eternal. And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away. Our swimming lessons before we enter the sea of the unconscious are found in mystical literature of many cultures. So perhaps a good piece of advice is "Not one and not two." The character (written form) of the Tao (in its original form) is a "head" signifying the beginning. The second type of character used is a symbol for "going," also viewed as a "track." Underneath the characters is the presence of a sense of "standing still." (This symbol is omitted in the later way of writing.) A track, though fixed itself, leads from the beginning directly to the goal. Tao, though motionless, is a means for all movement and gives to movement its laws to follow. Jung describes the Tao as to go consciously, the conscious way. (These are two distinct characters.) The ancient sages knew how to bridge the gap between consciousness and life because they cultivated both. In Confucianism, Tao is interpreted as the "right Way", the way of heaven and the way of man. THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER, too, portrays the body activated by two psychic structures: anima and animus. In this sense they both become evident at death: Anima is described as an energy that is linked with body processes, sinks to earth and decays. Animus, the higher soul, rises in the air, still active and then evaporates in ethereal space or flows back into the common reservoir of life. The solar plexus is the anima abdomen, while animus dwells in the eyes. The downward flowing life-process, the anima, and our passions will force animus into its service. To this extent then, the intellect directs itself outward and both anima and animus leak away. The result is that life consumes itself. However there is a creation of new beings in which life is seen to continue. The original being externalizes itself and is made by things into a thing itself. Death results. On the other hand, if the ego strives upward in spite of a process of externalization, the energy of anima-animus can be maintained (due to sacrifices). However, without this aspiration, involution is still progressing until death, and when this unaspiring life enters a new womb, it begins life as a devil. There is a new life fed and created by the previous imaginings of thingness. If a person can set going the backward-flowing energies, anima is mastered by animus, and the liberation of the intellect from eternal things occurs. This results in illusion having no energy. The ego remains alive after death as the energy has not been wasted on the outer world. These people have created within the monad a life-centre independent of the body. This ego is like a god. And even though invisible, it can survive as long as the inner rotation of the center continues. It can even influence men after death, inspiring them to great thoughts and noble deeds. The limitation is that these beings continue with their personal lives and are subject to space and time. Immortal life is found through the Golden Flower alone. Here there is an inner detachment from all entanglement with things. At this stage the ego is transposed. He is no longer limited to the monad. He penetrates the magic circle of duality of all phenomena and returns to the undivided One, the Tao. In Taoism, traces of the individual remain as the Golden Flower. In Buddhism, this state of return is connected with a complete extinction of the ego. This closes the Book of Consciousness and Life, the HUI MING CHING. From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 20:08:12 -0700 From: jhe@koko.csustan.edu (Jerry Hejka-Ekins) Subject: Last AAB\HPB exchange Arvind, Thank you very much for your final communication, our exchange has been very educational for me also. I'm also glad to hear that you have found something that you feel to be more suitable for your needs. Theosophy is a jnana path requiring careful and intense study as well as strict practice. There are not very many people in this world who are into theosophy--just a few thousand. Out of that tiny group, there is just a small handful of students who both really understand teachings and carry on a theosophical practice in their lives. My own observations of people in this movement has suggested that it takes an odd combination of character traits in order to really get into Theosophy and stick with it. Many come, but very few stay. Good luck with your new interest in Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. Also, I wish you a good and safe journey on your Indian vacation. Fraternally, Jerry Hejka-Ekins From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 08:03:34 -0700 From: jcoker@eis.calstate.edu (Jessica L. Coker) Subject: Hello from Nancy Wed June 29 This is from Nancy Thanks to Brenda and Eldon for sending a note on how to retrieve archival material for theos-l, unfortunately I couldn't make it work. I really miss all the conversations but we're still under black-out conditions here because our list server is so swamped with mail they have unsubscribed everyone to everything except direct e-mail. Eventually they will set up conferences to somehow take the place of whatever-you-call-what-theos-l is. I have sent a few notes to CORE, the list server asking them to set up the conference for theos-l but they do not respond. When I check the alpha listing of conferences it never appears. r (TS Pas) last public meeting for two months was last evening so I will be hungry for good TS BS. Someone told me about a cheap LA bulletin board that has a gateway to Internet. Does anyone know their phone #? Prodigy and America Online are just too expensive for me. Cheers. Nancy From ???@??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 12:51:54 EDT From: RIhle@aol.com Subject: Re: Hello from Nancy Thank you so much, Nancy, for your note about being unable to retrieve archival files etc. I can't figure it out either, and one can always use company in the Land of Feeling Inadequate. Best wishes from Madison, WI! Richard Ihle