Theos-Talk Archives (October 1997 Message tl00248)

Bart Lidofsky <bartl@sprynet.com> wrote:

> For the group monad that I described to be formed in the first place, there
> cannot be any traitors.

I doubt this will ever happen. Even in the most advanced groups. (For example,
the 12 disciples.)

kymsmith@micron.net wrote:

> Some "traitors," as history shows, have been invaluable to the progression
> of the world's inhabitants.  What exactly do you consider a "traitor" to be?
> And, what "system" would you recommend to guarantee that "there cannot be
> any traitors?"

Good point. Though there are genuine Judas's, it is all too easy to project
one's own stuff on another person. One should be doubly and triply cautious
about doing that, but not naive about dangerous persons.

Nicole Suter <suter@igt.baum.ethz.ch> wrote:

> According to my little experience I would n e v e r "drop my ego at the
> door" of a group considering this to be too dangerous. Each group (whether
> spiritual, religious or simply one to share jokes) has a collective
> unconsiousness which of course raises positive "energies" but also does the
> contrary and especially here my self needs its ego for protection.

Yes, that is why I decided to re-interpret Bart's "dropping the ego".
Certainly one cannot and should not get rid of the ego, which when illumined
becomes the doer for the Self.  To use perhaps less ambiguous language ...
the selfish uses of the 3 lower chakras seem to be the downfall of charismatic
people in groups: uses of money, sex and power in service to the ego; the most
dangerous of which is the last.

> If "a failure of the former causes conflict" a natural form of dependency
> changed into dependence and if "they are unable to survive with the
> rest of the world" we have an interdependence. Dependence and inter-
> dependence are much more common today than the natural form of
> dependency and spiritual/religious groups often show its symptoms.

Yes, wrong use of power is to take away another's volition, subtly or overtly.
It happens all too often.

Bart Lidofsky <bartl@sprynet.com> wrote:

> Although the question is not addressed to me, I would like to pose a
> answer. Nobody can safely drop their shields with everybody; note that
> the Mahatmas only did it with other Mahatmas. To drop your shields with
> somebody, that other person must be highly compatible with you, and must
> also be dropping his/her shields. It is extraordinarily rare that a
> group of people who can do that meet each other in a context where they
> might even try. It is my belief that, thanks largely to the ideas
> brought to the West by the TS, an atmosphere of encouragement for such
> groups to form has been created.

It depends on what is meant by "dropping shields". If it is extending oneself
with the possibility of one's open hand being slapped that is necessary, but
not something I would do with malicious people. If it is relinquishing one's
will, of course that is dangerous.