Theos-Talk Archives (August 1996 Message tl00037)

Perhaps I could provide my ideas, and see how well they float:

Euser: >Why cannot the (higher) manas within the auric egg (or field of
>consciousness-matter) send out a ray, form a vehicle, for a new
>manifestation?

This is precisly what is presented, based on my reading/interpretation.  The
Manas is the Causal [Cause-al] body, which when manifestation is required
causes a ray [or thread] to be emanated, which CAUSES the formation of:
        1)      Kama-Manas              = Mental Body
        2)      Kama                    = Astral Body
        3)      Linga-Sarina            = Etheric Double
        4)      Shula-Sarina            = Physical Body
This would point to the fact that the three-fold unit (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) is
where the origin of manifestation occurs, from our point of view ("our"
being the human life wave.)  This, on a higher level, would still present
itself as manas for that given level, this being in total agreement with HPB
when she stated that "Universal Mind ever IS." Therefore, in restatement,
MANAS most certainly DOES reincarnate, however it does have Atma and Buddhi
along with it, in the same way that one has their Heart and Lung along with
them when they decide to have a meal (which is consumed and processed by
other organs in the body, most importantly the Stomach and Liver.)

Jerry S. States that "Because manas is the human mind, and it is re-born
each time. The causal body, the atma-buddhi, is the Reincarnating Ego which
puts forth a new "ray" or manas at the beginning of each re-incarnation."
The only difference here is that Jerry removes "Manas" from the Causal,
making it Atma-Buddhi.  I disagree with this since every model presented by
every teaching that I've seen has the Noetic (or Mind) giving birth to the
Psychic (or Kamic). Further, Manas is NOT the human mind, but Mind in total.
The human mind is limited by the expression (or vehicle of expression) by
which it is observed (in Kama.)  This makes the human mind "Kama-Manas", not
"Manas."

This presentation of incarnation appears substancially the same as mine, but
I'd like to see if it does to you as well:

>	Let me phrase this differently. Let us assume the standpoint
>of the human monad. It manifests
  from the Causal Body, or 'Atma-Buddhi-Manas'
>as a personality,
  the quarternary, as two pairs: Kama-Manas (Mental/Astral unit)
                                 Sarina     (Physical w/ Etheric Double)
>has its experiences,
  The physical incarnation
>and withdraws its energy from the outer vehicle.
  The Sarina, this extraction taking (Traditionally) three days to complete.
  Afterwards, there is a period during which the individual may be considered
  'In Vitro' in the Kama-Masic vehicle.  This state is closely related to the
  dream state we expereince in life, however there are marked differences, most
  notibly that we are unconscious during this period, to the same degree that
  we consider a fetus to be unconscious prior to birth.  After a period of time
>It stores what it has
>learned (by means of its vehicle) on this earth in its database.
  Into the Manasic vehicle (the Causal body).  This involves the
sluffing-off of   the Kama-manasic vehicle (Astral/Mental unit) as a form of
"Afterbirth", at     which point it becomes a Kama Rupa (or Astral Spook).
The manasic vehicle now   awaits a new oportunity to present itself for
reincarnation to occur.  Jerry    apparently concurs with this when he
states that "The "aroma" of each life is   stored, not in or by the human
monad, but by and in the [Causal Vehicle].
>The monad needs more experience in this life and manifests again,
>forming a new persona, based upon previous experiences, and, the new
>environment it is going to manifest in, etc.
  Or as jerry says "The human monad is reborn each time."  This process
repeats   ad-infinitum until "Release" is achieved, at which point the
Atma-Buddhi-Manas   is re-absorbed into the one-essence, which is considered
the Monad (when     individualized from the 'ALL') and Ayn-Soph when not
individualized.

  In this model, the keynote is that the 'Causal Vehicle' can be likened to the
  Kumaras, which are eternal virgins, through which manifestation occurs albeit
  without a direct affect upon them.  Manifestation, or rebirth, of the
monad     occurs through them, but the causal vehicle is not caused
(directly) by the   monad (on this level of manifestation).

  Using "Cosmogenesis" for an example of "As Above, So Below", this appears
to    be, at least on the surface a restatement of "The Ray shoots through
the     Virgin Egg [the Causal Vehicle, or Atma-Buddhi-Manas]; the ray
causes the     eternal egg [the ayn-sof] to thrill, and drop the non-eternal
(periodical [or   reincarnating]) germ [the Monad], which condenses into the
world-egg   [the   quarternary, or the composite, which becomes the Mental,
Astral, and Physical   bodies]

Using the above, I might present the possiblity that
  a) sub-races within Root-Races    relate to   Personas emitted from Manas
  b) Root Races within rounds       relate to   Manasic vehicles from Monads
  c) Rounds within Globes          compare to   Monads emitted from "Ayn Soph"

Question, do you think that the 'Egoic Lotus' model of Alice Bailey would
coorilate very well to this.  She shows three trinities, each nested within
another, with a round multi-faceted center:
        The center would be            the Manifesting ego (or the Monad)
        The first trinity would be     the Causal Body (Atma-Buddhi-Manas)
        The second trinity would be    the Astral/Mental unit (plus Prana)
        The third trinity would be     The Sarina (Linga/Shula, plus Prana)

Max Heindel's coorilating model might be
        Center                          The Virgin Spirits
        First Trinity                   Divine/Life/Human spirit (as a group)
        Second trinity                  Soul (or Psyche from the greek)
        Third Trinity                   Body (et All)

And this would therefore be in substantial agreement with Jerry when he says
"If you look at it as body [sarina], soul [kama-manas], and spirit [causal],
then only the spirit [causal vehicle, or Nous] survives and reincarnates,
forming a new soul [Psyche] and new body each time. [remarks in square
brackets are mine (JSY)]

Do you think that the preceeding ideas are in substantial agreement with
your studies and/or experience?

                                James Scott Yungkans, F.T.S.

P.S.  Alan, you state that "none of the quotes is mine!" Would you care to
step into the room and present your views (and I promise to be a gentleman
:)  I would expecially like to hear from some of your "assistants" (Spooks
or ?) in regard to where the system is in "Error", or is this in substancial
agreement with you as well?