Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl00164)

Yet Again!

Here is a challenge to both Jerry HE and Jerry S to have an ongoing series
of discussions to try to come to some consensus or at least to see where they
really disagree on these subjects.   I know Jerry HE is busy right now
planning the finishing touches, etc. on the Judge Conference, but I hope
after that, he will have some free time to carry on this discussion with
Jerry S.

I would suggest to both parties that they present some "excerpts" from HPB,
Leadbeater, etc.
illustrating their various points.


Daniel Caldwell


>Jerry H-E:
>I have read your recent post, and I have heard you say that CWL is in
>conflict with HPB either deliberately or in ignorance several times in
>the past.  I agree that there seem to be at least some conflicts, but
>not as many as you suggest.
>	As I understand it, the CWL model talks about bodies
>and planes, which basically are made of the same "stuff" which is
>to say, out of the tattvas or cosmic elements.  HPB, on the other
>hand talks about planes and principles, and only mentions bodies
>once that I know of, where she specifically mentions three subtle
>bodies.  Other than semantical word-smiths, where is there any
>conflict?  I find myself agreeing with both CWL and HPB here, and
>have never been able to grasp what you are talking about.   I have
>always viewed "bodies" as objective vehicles of consciousness,
>and "principles" as subjective states of consciousness.  So, I tend
>to see them as going together rather than conflicting.
>
>>  Actually my criticism concerns CWL's enumeration of the
>>solar planes as described in ~Man Visible and Invisible,~  and
>>his confounding them with the "seven bodies of man,"  which is
>>further confounded with HPB's "seven principles of man."
>	Here is exactly my problem--I just don't see the
>"confounding" that you seem to see.  To me CWL says that
>we have a physical body on the physical plane, an astral body
>on the astral plane, and so on.  I don't see this as confounding
>anything.  Nor does it conflict with HPB in any way that I have
>ever found.
>
>>  HPB, on the other hand, does not confound the solar
>>planes and the principles, because the principles in her system
>>do not occupy any but the lowest solar plane.
> 	Here I disagree with your interpretation.  I believe that
>she teaches that the seven cosmic planes each have seven
>principles, that the seven principles of the physical plane (the lowest)
>are a reflection of "wheels-within-wheels" wherein the seven cosmic
>principles are each expressed on each cosmic plane.  Just like
>each plane has seven suplanes, so each has seven principles.  You
>seem to be implying that there are no principles expressed on any
>of the other cosmic planes.
>
>Am I missing something?
>
>	Jerry S.
>	Member, TI
>
>
>