Theos-Talk Archives (October 1995 Message tl00564)

Hi Jerry,

 ... and thanks for the response. I was beginning to think
 that everyone was ignoring me with the lack of responses and all.
 But, then agian, there have been some interesting discussions go-
 ing on and I threw something completely elementary in the middle
 of it. Anyway, you responded to my post on the list with:

> ...
> I am not familiar with your training lesson ...

 That doesn't surprise me. It is a very thin 8.5x11" booklet
 again called _Introductory_Study_Course_in_Theosophy_ Part I and
 is "based on a course written by Emogene S. Simmons." The title
 page says that it is written by the Department of Education, The
 Theosophical Society in America. While the copyright is in 1967,
 I'm looking at the 1982 reprint of the sixth printing in 1964.
 The first printing was in 1938.

> ... but your description
> of Diagram I is very close to Plate III found in CWL's Man Visible
> and Invisible ...

 Wow! It just so happens that I have a copy of that here.
 Just a second ... let me dig it out ... I know it's here some-
 where ... Ah! Here it is! Let's see, Plate III ... Well, as a
 matter of fact it is almost the exact same diagram. The artistry
 is slightly different and my Diagram 1 has labels on each of the
 planes -- but it is almost exactly the same diagram!

> ... I don't know anything about your Diagram 2,
> nor where you get "Adi" and "Monadic" for the names of the first
> two planes, though these are as good as any.

 The labels on my Diagram 1 appear to the left of the graphic
 and are used as labels for each of the vertical divisions of the
 "graph." They are as follows:

 * Divine or Adi Plane
 * Monadic Plane
 * Nirvanic Plane
 * Buddhic Plane
 * Mental Plane
 * There are two subdivisions here
 But they are not labelled separately
 * Astral Plane
 * Physical Plane

> ...
> < And, is there any meaning to the symbol that appears in
> <the mental plane of the third outpouring.
>
> Yes, this respresents the human kingdom ...

 This is confusing. Why is the "human kingdom" positioned in
 the mental plane of the third outpouring? Maybe a better ques-
 tion that, perhaps, I forgot to ask originally: what is an out-
 pouring?

> ...
> < * Is there any specific meaning behind the three symbols used
> < at the top of the diagram which are labelled as the aspects?
>
> All three symbols at the top of the diagram can be found in the
> proem to the Secret Doctrine, and represent the three main stages of
> manifestation ...

 I guess our study group should at least read the proem to the
 SD, eh? Maybe we should have a copy handy for our reference dur-
 ing our work through this study guide. During our last meeting,
 we found the glossary and index in the full _Key_to_Theosophy_
 somewhat useful.

> ...
> < * Is there any correlation between Diagram 1 and Diagram 2?
>
> Yes.
>
> I can't talk about your Diagram 2, since I am unfamiliar with it ...

 I looked through Leadbeater's plates in the book and found
 nothing similar to my Diagram 2. In the books that I have looked
 through and those that I have read, I have seen no other diagram
 exactly like this study guide's Diagram 2.

> ...
> Comment: You are describing the manifestation scheme invented
> by CWL, which many theosophists abhore. I personally don't like
> it because it is an attempt to blend theosophy with Christianity, and
> I prefer to keep religion out of my theosophy; or rather, I let theosophy
> be my only religion. Most of the works of CWL are, IMHO, a mixed
> bag having some good stuff, and some pretty bad stuff. Many
> theosophists just throw it all out and ignore him. I prefer to take
> what I like, and ignore those parts that I don't like. One of the
> things that I don't like, and ignore, is his business of the Logos,
> the Trinity, Outpourings, and so on. I prefer Purucker in these
> areas. Hope this helps.

 I was unaware that this was a "Leadbeater thing." Since the
 booklet came from Wheaton, and I have seen it at both the Wheaton
 Quest bookshop and the Krotona bookstore, I had assumed that it
 was TS educational material sanctioned by the American Section.
 (Heck, we even sold copies of the thing during our regular month-
 ly meetings that we were holding a year or so ago -- its list
 price is always something less than $5.00.)

 If I get the gist of what you are saying, this material sounds
 like it might be a little dated and not exactly in line with the
 popular thinking of the current TS in America today? I am en-
 tirely in sympathy with you when you say that you don't like to
 mix today's organized religions with theosophy -- neither do I.
 But it suprises me then that the terms and the Diagram are still
 used in today's Theosophical Society educational materials.

 It sounds to me like our group needs to find some other *in-
 troductory* *educational* materials to study from. What do you
 think?

 Does anyone else have any input on this discussion?

William A. (Bill) Parrette wap@one.net

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